Big Turk
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Posts posted by Big Turk
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1 hour ago, Ayjent said:
You lose wr1 and wr2, and starting C - and you go slow WR, S, back up DT. Nice!!!
it’s kinda criminal that they are content just letting Josh carry the offense without trying to make it exceptional. So we’ll be the 20s version of the 80s Browns, 80-90s Dolphins and 90s Chiefs at best - good enough to compete but never good enough to be even the best in the conference. The overemphasis on D in an offensive league when you have a gem at QB is baffling.
Coleman doesn't look slow when you see him play. People don't understand that 40 times and play speed are two different things.
You have guys that run great 40 times that play a lot slower on the field and then you have guys that don't run great 40 times that play a lot faster on the field. Allen didn't run a great 40 time but how many DBs does he run away from in the open field? The dude is moving out there.
Coleman is the latter. 40 times come down to technique quite a bit...if you don't get a good start you can lose .2 seconds right off the bat with no real way to make up the time.
Coleman reached 20.36 mph in the gauntlet drill which was the fastest speed of any of the WRs over the last 2 seasons. That doesn't seem slow to me.
Coleman's 4.61 40-yard dash doesn't necessarily jump off the charts, but in the gauntlet drill at the NFL Combine, Coleman reached a top speed of 20.36 miles per hour – the fastest speed by a receiver over the last two seasons.
"The 40 is no longer the most effective way to determine a player's speed," wrote ESPN’s Marcel Louis-Jacques earlier this year. "The value it once had to teams has diminished in its 80-year existence, as clubs turn toward other means – such as GPS tracking and analytical data – to fully understand how fast a player can move in football specific situations."
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I'm wondering if they start trading some of those picks for a round up next year and turn a few of those 5ths into 4ths for next year's draft?
Would be a nice way to add capital for next year and gain a round since there is no way 10 rookies are making this roster. Why draft players just to showcase them for other teams?
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If we wanted a #1 the only ones that were guarantees were the top 3. Everyone after that is a crap shoot. None of them are coming in as day 1 starters as the #1 WR.
Coleman is a big target, makes crazy catches in traffic and is a very good run blocker, something the Bills clearly value. Essentially he fills the Gabe Davis role with more upside and better hands.
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Just now, Roundybout said:
I guess so
Franklin must be a serial killer or something for teams to be avoiding him like this
Perhaps they don't value him as much due to Pac 10 not playing any D? Have a hard time believing 3 Washington WRs were better than him tho
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1 minute ago, gobills1212 said:
That's simply the most reasonable assertion if its to be believed. It was relayed in the sense that they not had to pivot, but as mentioned by other posters - by moving up and getting the 5th yr control you'd think it'd be for a 'playmaker' or someone worth it.
It's like the TLDR is I hope Beane didn't really have the wool pulled over his eyes. A friend in Myrtle Beach says the Panthers seem to have a penchant for drafting local talent. That would be another reason it could have been predicted. But this gist is essentially by choice (both rated equal and the value of the 5th made their decision) or surprise - a pivot had to occur as that wasn't originally what the pick was going to be. Beane said they called him. Maybe your theory is correct in it was going to be A, and then the value added changed it to B.
5th year options outside of QBs aren't really that valuable anymore
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3 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:
Weren’t they talking about Coleman?
Yup...and now he is still there at 89
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1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:
I'm not sure whether they had to pivot. There was nothing stopping them picking Legette and rejecting the Panthers offer. I think they simply preferred Coleman's physical attributes.
Or at the very least were OK with picking either.
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7 hours ago, Low Positive said:
what he figured out is that Carolina was not going to take who the Bills wanted, so why not pick up a free 4th rounder?
I see no way that the Bills would allow a team to trade up one spot to take the player they planned on taking at 33.
No way...they would have asked them at the very least if they were trading up for "this player" and if they said yes then no deal.
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4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:
Yeah. I'm quite comfortable with the idea that he wouldn't have been there at 71 most likely. Certain? No, I don't have access to all the draft boards. But pretty comfortable with the thought
He is still there at 87.
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5 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:
First off, thank you for being much more respectful than someone else here. It's nice to have a convo rather than have someone act like a screw driver.
Couple things, for obvious reasons, I didn't want to believe this as A) Leggette was who I was hoping for and B) it's not a great look for someone who I'm a fan of. I have no interest in bashing Beane, and while not perfect, he knows much more about football than myself. I didn't have to say anything and it's more just stating what went through my head through out the day. I had no issue w the trade as a fan last night, but the text I got from someone who knows NOTHING about the draft but works w someone who's husband is a scout said that he was the guy, they didn't expect that's who it was going to be for, so now Coleman is the guy.
After umpiring a highschool game I hopped in the car and listened to the pick and sure enough - Coleman. I called that person and they mentioned the 2nd pick - also spot on. It is what it is, my only real point here was that I hoped the picks weren't true - not bc I didn't want the players... but bc I didnt want to believe the story. There weren't specs in the sense that ' the world was ending' or 'they had both similar but Legette more so while they'd have preferred one, they weren't unhappy w the other' just simply that CAR took who they'd planned on taking.
Maybe they were close enough he was willing to take that chance w that return. I have no idea. I just feel like if it's one team behind and they want to get ahead of you - I was surprised the stipulation wasn't we had to know who they wanted before the trade.
Either way, the point of the post was simply I spent the day hoping that wasn't the pick so I could write off the story as bunk. Then not one, but 2 picks were just as they said. As such, now I believe it. No one else has to, just mentioned it bc I felt it was interesting. Nothing more, nothing less.
That doesn't make sense.
Before you would trade a pick, why wouldn't you ask them if they planned on taking "this person"?
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7 minutes ago, billsherd said:
Is he still available? Nor watching it very closely.
Yup...multiple other WRs have gone ahead of him, the latest was Roman Wilson.
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2 minutes ago, Craig Oi said:
Yeah....Who are you comparing him to...Ronny Lackawanna's Fav....
Was Ronny Lackawana a Hall of Famer with almost 9K yards and 600 catches?
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2 minutes ago, Craig Oi said:
Old enough to know ...Who is this player??????
Former Eagles WR in the 80s who was pretty good.
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2 hours ago, Casey D said:
On NFL Network it was Mike Williams. People here don't know what the fu#k they are talking about. Let's trust the folks that took us from laughingstock to primetime material.
SB Nation gave the Bills an A for the pick and said we are going to love Coleman and he plays much much faster than his 40 time and catches literally everything.
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19 minutes ago, MJS said:
DeJean was taken already, wasn't he?
McDermott starts rookies all the time. He just didn't with Elam.
Dejean wasn't selected until 3-4 picks after Coleman.
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5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
Don't like it. Doesn't separate. When they put up Mike Williams as a pro comp that says it all. Non-separator.
DJ said Big Slot as well. That is ultimately where I think he makes his money.
Drake London was the NFL comp at NFL Draft Profile on NFL.com
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2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:
I mostly agree except that we didn't get any extra picks.
They moved up significantly
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1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:
Kelvin Benjamin. But the one that was in his prime.
After all is said and done, it seems that we had one guy head and tails over all other WRs (Harrison), and then about 8 guys that you could order whatever way you want. So the trade down made sense if you look at it that way.
The NFL Draft profile comparison is Drake London.
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15 hours ago, Virgil said:
We spent a lot of time with DeJean, Franklin and Walker pre-draft. I think tomorrow, we either go DeJean and Walker, or Franklin and ??
I'm going to roll with another trade down a few picks and for a pick next year a round higher than they would have gotten this year. So maybe a 4th next year...I think there are multiple players that are all around the same grade at different positions and they would be cool with taking whatever one is still on the board at their spot.
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8 hours ago, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:
The bills only traded back because they thought their guy would be available at 2.01.
That tells me they want to take a guy that most people didn't mock in the first round. So who could that be ?
Is it possible the bills loved a guy like Ricky Pearsall, and thought no way someone would take him in the first?
What if the bills shot themselves in the foot?
Unless the bills trade down again, why risk losing out on your guy just to gain a better draft position in round 3?
No, what it says is that Beane was being honest when he said they really didn't have 28 first round grades.
So why take a 2nd round graded player in the first round when you can get extra picks?
Clearly they were not as high on Worthy and Legette as many others were/are and they didn't see someone worth moving up to go get...perhaps BTJ was the last WR they would have been willing to trade up for and he was taken too high.
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Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said:
But if its at the cost of a guy you want (say troy franklin), is it worth it? Because NE picks right after us, has a big need at boundary WR, and had a top 30 visit with him.
You always take BPA as long as it's something you don't have a surplus of. Careers in the NFL are too short and there is no guarantee any player will be a "star". They stick to their board and take who they have rated highest.
Now if they have a group of players all relatively the same grade then you can start going with the higher need
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16 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:
I'm ready to be booed:
Take Cooper DeJean at 33.
Our safety group, while less important than our WRs, is in terrible shape. DeJean would almost for sure start immediately and in a pinch could be kicked back outside to replace Douglas in a year.
I WANT WR more, but with the assets in play I am considerably more confident that Beane can move up to the top of the 2nd and get someone I would have been fine with us taking at 28 (Franklin, McConkey and AD Mitchell all qualify for me)
Some believe that DeJean is a future 4-5x all-pro. If Beane views him as that I don't see how he could pass on him. Very likely is the BPA at this point as well.
However there are players that fit the bill at 4 positions there right now.
Newton at DT, DeJean at S/CB, McKinstrey at CB and Mitchell at WR.
They could maybe be OK with taking any of those 4 and maybe be willing to move down 3 picks and take whatever one is left or pick from those 4...
Beane has a ton of options right now in this spot.
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1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:
In a strong yr in the draft for Wrs u don't do that.
Trade for one and draft one. Nobody they pick now is walking in and being a #1 WR this year. Even if they drafted BTJ, he might not have even been a #1 WR.
The only surefire #1 WRs in the draft were the top 3.
Lots of slot WRs and guys with a lot of potential 2 and 3 WR capabilities, but we already have those.
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Vontae Mack...no matter what.
2024 NFL Draft - Day 2 Debrief
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by Big Turk
The one thing that stands out is that Coleman reached the top speed of any WR in the last 2 years in the gauntlet drill at 20.36 mph.
That's situational speed which is more important than 40 times. 40 times are so dependant on your start and with bigger guys sometimes they don't have the right technique. That can cost them .1-.2 seconds right there.
Look at Josh Allen...he didn't have a great 40 time but he runs away from DBs in the open field. The dude is fast...not just fast for a big QB, fast period.
UPDATE:
Just as I thought... Coleman's technique coming out of the starting blocks is among the worst I've ever seen. He almost stands straight up and kind of lunges which slows him down and almost gives him a weird hitch before he gets going.
You are supposed to stay low and drive your lower body coming out of the blocks and Coleman doesn't do this at all...
If you want to see terrible technique on how to run a 40, watch this video over and over again...
Now, compare that to Xavier Worthy and watch how he basically uses the start to accelerate thru to an upright position gaining speed...Coleman LOSES speed while going upright and has to restart from zero almost after 2 steps while Worthy is already halfway to top speed...