Cash
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Posts posted by Cash
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56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:
Yep if you Billieve so strongly in the Bills WR's why are you even in the thread? When I see a topic I think is BS or don't have an opinion on I don't even think of opening it. I don't go in just to exclaim that fans are just so negative or imply that there is an ulterior motive for their opinion outside of wanting a better football product put on the field. 😂 It's just idiotic.
Our all time homer/fan-shamer on TSW really exposed it all one time when he drunk posted from a bar whining pathetically about why do the Bills hurt him so much? What did he do to deserve this? Then he sobered up and went right back to bashing fans for having any expectations. They can't put the failure on the organization. That would be treason. They can't process that it's ultimately just a product created by a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry. Instead they turn their frustration on the fans.
You seem a bit confused. Are you aware that all of your sternly-worded letters on here do not, in fact, go straight to the Buffalo Bills organization?
Reading the last couple pages of this thread, I gotta tell ya: You come across as a really angry dude who is taking out his frustration on other posters. My impression is that you’re mad that other people are happy. Just FYI.
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1 minute ago, Augie said:
That really might help grits, but I can’t imagine me ever ordering grits again, so I guess I’ll never know how I like it. My wife hates avocados because of the texture, and grits kind of does that for me.
Meanwhile, back to football, I’m not sure.
Too gritty, or not gritty enough?
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37 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:
We say that every year. "So and so won't clear waivers". Yet most times they do. Yearly only a handful of guys get claimed by a new team league wide.
Yet, if it's close and there is legitimate worry he wouldn't clear because he showed well in preseason, you keep him, cut Lewis. Cheaper contract and no one is likely to claim Lewis.
When was the last time we cut a 5th-rounder in his rookie year? I can't think of one off the top of my head. Hardy was a 6th rounder last year and did clear waivers, which was a mild surprise to me. The year before, 7th rounders Alex Austin and Nick Broecker both got claimed when we cut them and are still rostered by those teams. In 2022, 6th rounder Luke Tenuta got claimed. In 2021, 6th rounder Rachad Wildgoose and 7th rounder Jack Anderson both cleared waivers, but then both were poached off our practice squad during the 2021 season. In 2020 & 2019, I don't think we waived any drafted rookies. The closest is 2020 5th rounder Jake Fromm, who made the team in 2020 but was cut the following year and signed to the PS. Of note, he was poached by the Giants later that season.
So, going back through 6 years of drafts, we've cut 3 6th rounders and 3 7th rounders, and 5/6 were snapped up by other teams before end of the regular season. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Hancock either makes the team out of camp, gets put on IR, or is not a Buffalo Bill in 2026.
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2 hours ago, Simon said:
It is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain
Thanks, Paul.
2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:Well, I generally agree with you. He's not likely to emerge as a top-10 receiver. Those guys have special talent, and it shows up wherever they may be playing.
However, the beauty of McDermott's system, and the wideout philosophy in general, is that system doesn't require him to be a top-10 receiver. It doesn't require ANYONE to be a top-10 receiver. What the system hopes it can get out of each receiver is 600-1000 yards, Instead of requiring a 1500-yard man, this system just requires that Beane find several 800-yard men. That's a much easier task.
The receiver room looks better with Moore and Palmer than without them, for sure. Both have shown that they can get that kind of yardage. Whether they make the room better than with healthy Cooper and Hollins is a real question for some, but I think the Moore and Palmer offer more upside. If Samuel is the weakest player in the room, I think it's a strong group.
Yeah, Moore clearly isn't "that good", and if he was, we wouldn't be able to afford him. And that's fine. What he is, is insurance against another Texans game from last year, where Allen completed 9 passes and it looked like our WRs were a freshman team playing against varsity DBs.
Put another way: Before the Moore signing, we were guaranteed to have at least 1 WR make the team who was such a question mark that he might be totally worthless. Basically Shavers, Prather, or Shenault. But now, if one of those guys winds up making the team, I'll feel a lot better about it. Because it will mean he beat out a real NFL WR in training camp, and thus is hopefully a real NFL WR himself.
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2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:
I do think Lewis having time in the position and playing in this system gives him a mental upgrade to have the leg up on a rookie that has a lot to learn still. I think the only way Hancock flat out beats him is if he shows to be some physical specimen out there. My best guess is one is kept on the active roster and the other is signed back to the practice squad.
Only problem there is that 5th round picks usually don't clear waivers. If it does come down to Hancock vs Lewis and Lewis wins, that probably means bye-bye to Hancock.
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6 minutes ago, boyst said:
One thing I notice about McDermott is once you earn your starting spot you basically keep it for the entire year. Only a few times do I remember him coming out of camp with positions not firmly in place and lasting all season.
Wyatt Teller, was one of them. He replaced Ducasse and started the last handful of games and played well. Then was traded after being a starter.
The other few were lineman as well. Spain, Ford, and a few others.
But my point remains, I don't think we have seen a lot of movement for starters in any positions to who starts and doesn't without injury being a factor.
It'll be interesting if he is trying to switch safeties mid season. It's not his MO.
Off the dome, didn't Spencer Brown move into the starting lineup around the middle of his rookie year? Maybe at the bye week or something?
Matt Milano is another one, mid/late in his rookie year.
In general, I think the team philosophy across the board is that guys compete for jobs, and once someone wins, it's "his" job... until it isn't. For example, Beane post-draft talking about what Hairston might do if he wins the starting job across from Benford. He wasn't pretending that Benford will have to win a starting job in camp the way I've seen some NFL coaches or GMs do. Honestly, I think the Bills' take is a good middle ground. I hate the performative nonsense of coaches pretending their guys with 8-figure contracts are on the same level as rookie UDFAs, even if I get the idea behind it. On the other end, I still remember Doug Whaley declaring Sammy Watkins and Cyrus Kouandjio "starters off the bus" in his post-draft presser. Too much overconfidence and entitlement there.
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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:
Yep. I don't think he is a franchise guy but he can definitely be a serviceable Quarterback. And I think if the four guys on that roster have a genuine open competition then Sanders is, at this stage in Flacco's career, the most talented of the four and would emerge as the starter. Whether they have that genuine competition I am sceptical.
If you buy the idea that Jimmy Haslam mandated the Shedeur pick, it might actually wind up rigged in Sanders' favor.
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4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
I do think it is Baltimore. They do the most things well that matches up to Bills weaknesses.
Regular season, Ravens. Playoffs, Chiefs.-
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15 hours ago, boyst said:
Hey hey now
I'm one of those. If it was a 2 yard shuttle pass to the running back as soon as I took the snap in the shotgun...i could do it as long as the sun wasn't in my eyes.
In all seriousness though, I remember that game. They did dumb down the playbook but didn't run easy plays for him or even set up the plays for a chance. The defense plays read and react passive coverage and just limited options. It was a tragedy.
Wasn’t part of the issue how little practice time they were able to get that week? It looked like he hadn’t had a chance to practice at QB at all. I don’t think he was ever asked to take a snap under center, for example.
I was watching with a Saints fan, and we enjoyed the easy win, but man that was ugly to watch. It was also during the “Taysom Hill as full-time QB” experiment. Hill was AWFUL in that game, but he was able to complete a few passes. That gave the Saints an insurmountable advantage at QB.
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15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:
Shaw, the point is that there isn’t a player that’ll put them in a position any better than the one they were in last season. The only thing left for the Buffalo Bills to do is to have someone make ‘a play’ at the point of do or die. You either make the play or you go home.
The other night I was watching one of the NBA teams (can’t remember which one) lose a game because a player inexplicably let a ball go right through his hands and legs out of bounds when all he had to do was grab it and hold on. The opponent got the ball out of bounds and proceeded to go the length of the floor for the winning layup as time expired. All I could think to myself was geeeez what a Billsy way to screw up a sure victory.
It was Gary Trent Jr on the Bucks. I saw it live as well. Absolutely brutal. I was half expecting something like that, because the Bucks’ current coach (Doc Rivers) is known for choke jobs in the playoffs. Usually in the form of blowing 3-1 leads in 7 game series.7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:@TheWeatherMan your nausea (hope you feel better) is a reaction to the Bills top-3 roster options at safety, yes? Rather than my deft analysis of how that top-3 depth chart should shake out, of course.
I actually think Rapp is at least an average starting S in the NFL, who brings some physicality and flash. Problem there is he just absolutely obliterates himself and his teammates too often by dropping his helmet and becoming ordinance. Someone on the team will miss games because of Taylor Rapp.
Forrest is kind of intriguing on a McDermott defense. Was on an early trajectory in DC, but injuries plus a coaching change caused regression there in years 3 & 4. Tested like a beast coming out, though: 9.69 RAS. And flashed early on in the league. Availability will be the thing with him.
And Bishop...well, I don't know. He could progress the same way we hope Kincaid will. Sucks that both Utah guys are facing steep curves.
Would be great if Bishop somehow leaps past Rapp, because I think Rapp is an okay starter (while it lasts and until he lights up a teammate). Bishop was WAY behind Rapp last year. He was way behind Hamlin if we're being honest. Forrest could be a dude, though.
Hancock I think is more likely a subpackage guy or flexible replacement like Lewis, rather than a threat to start. Happy to be wrong there.
Like many here, I’m very interested in Forrest. I can’t say I’ve ever seen him play, so it’s mostly vibes-based. But I’d never seen Poyer or Hyde play when we signed them, and Poyer in particular was very unheralded at the time, and his first Bills contract reflected that.
I’m also very high on Hancock, and again, it’s mostly vibes-based. A 3-year starter on a loaded national championship team, who moved around a ton and did whatever needed to be done? Sign me up. I don’t expect a lot this year, but I love him as a candidate to start at safety down the road. Or maybe nickel corner when Taron Johnson ages out of the role.
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3 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:
Yep
I don't think we are going to have an elite receiving group. We don't yet have a guy that DCs lose sleep wondering how to cover.
What I think the Bills do have is a lot of average to good (some very good) players, and the variety to scheme up an attack week to week based on that teams weaknesses.
Are they bad against the run/inclement weather? Break out the jumbo sets and pound it.
Do they play heavy zone? Shakir is devastating against zone
Do they play heavy man? Well now we have Palmer and Moore (hopefully Keon) as man beaters.
I think that a 11 formation of Moore/Palmer at X, Coleman at Y, Shakir in the slot and Kincaid/Knox at TE and Cook/Davis/Ty is a replicable base offense to attack from
I think you meant Coleman at Z (and I agree).
X = split end
Y = slot
Z = flanker
2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:I agree with much of what you’ve said. Last year at this time, and dealing with the same arguments, I said the most important thing for the offense going into the season was Brady. Brady needed to develop his offense and his everybody eats philosophy. And the results were one of the best offenses in the league, and an MVP for its QB.
Going into this year the same questions arise. We have added two WRs in Palmer and Moore, have two guys in Coleman and Samuel coming back from injury, Shakir after a really good year, and the TEs (Kincaid has to come back from injuries) and RBs (I would now prioritize making a deal with Cook).
Where I might differ is on the WR#1. Would I want a guy like a Justin Jefferson? Sure! But let’s remember what happened when we had that #1 guy in Diggs with Brady’s offense. Allen was pressured into getting him his touches, and the offense two years ago (once Brady took over) was not as good as last year. And of course the diva stuff on top of it. So if we can get a guy with # 1 talent that would not give us the diva stuff sign me up. Until then, I think we’re still going to be really damn good this coming season.
It's odd how much better I feel about the WR room after the Moore signing, because Moore isn't anyone special. But he is a real NFL player, who has earned playing time and targets in all 4 years of being in the league, and he seems to be a good complementary fit to what we already have. I'll be surprised if Moore has a breakout year, but it's good to know we're not 1 injury away from big Tyrell Shavers snaps. No disrespect to Shavers, btw - I like him a lot. But guys like him are basically lotto tickets. It's good to have some lotto tickets in camp and on the practice squad, but having only 4 non-lotto-ticket WRs was really worrying to me.
I'm more optimistic on the Moore signing than either MVS or Claypool last year. Claypool was already on his way to playing himself out of the league after a promising rookie year. When the 2023 Bears don't think you can play WR, it's gonna be really tough to turn that ship around. MVS was a different story, but not much better. We'd all seen him drop a ton of passes from Mahomes the year before - except in the playoffs. We all knew who MVS was, and that's a subpar player who can sometimes make a big play if given enough opportunities. That didn't work out at all for us, I think partially because he was only ever going to get a handful of opportunities in the regular season.
Looking at our WR room compared to last year, I like it:
Shakir vs Shakir - should be about a wash
Coleman vs Coleman - no guarantees, but I'm expecting improvement
Samuel vs Samuel - hope springs eternal, but I think Samuel will be no better than last year
I expect Palmer to play a hybrid of Hollins & Cooper's roles from last year. Outside deep threat and plays blocking WR in run sets. Palmer isn't as good a blocker as Hollins, but hopefully is a better receiver. Palmer isn't as good a receiver as prime Cooper, but can he be an upgrade over what we actually got last year?
Moore doesn't have an obvious comp to last year - maybe MVS pre-Cooper trade. I suspect he'll get limited snaps when everyone's healthy, and could even be a healthy scratch some weeks if he doesn't play any special teams. But I expect him to get some WR snaps in every game he's active, and play a mix of the Curtis Samuel role and the Amari Cooper role.
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49 minutes ago, dorquemada said:
We shall soon see. AT BEST I see him as a bridge type QB but the impossible pressure on whatever franchise is cursed with him to make him the face of said franchise won't allow for that. I don't think you can separate that and all that brings from his mediocre skillset. Holding the ball too long is poison in the NFL, as are gimmick plays
I wonder how much of his game is due to his dad basically trying to game the system in terms of QB rating, stats, etc. Sacks don't scare people off nearly the way INTs do, and completion % has been the #1 metric in draft projection for a while. I watched as little of Colorado as I could, but from all accounts the offense was geared around maximizing Shedeur's completion percentage. I imagine the coaching he's been getting from his HD (Head Dad) has been heavily slanted towards completing every pass he throws. Coaching a guy to avoid INTs and also not throw the ball away leaves him taking a lot of sacks when he's in trouble. Or running heavily, but Shedeur isn't the athlete to make that work.
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6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
Yea if Beane had come in saying "guys look, I know you have been talking a lot about receiver this morning but honestly I'd love to have drafted one but I stuck the board and went in other spots and I feel good about what we have" then no issue. It was the "this is 2018", "let me speak" and "you guys wanna play fantasy football" that was the issue. I have no problem at all with him pushing back on the receiver narrative some. But he came in unnecessarily hot and actually I think if you listened to the full show as I did Jeremy and Joe had actually given quite a lot of credit for the defense moves and their conversation about receiver was a broader one about prioritisation of them, salary cap strategy, and how you factor that into draft value.
Equally I actually thought Jeremy responded pretty well but then his closing after Beane had finished the call of "we are not playing fantasy football, we are smarter than that, and we are not here to be belittled" was equally unnecessary and petty. I've been there. I got the famous Sir Alex Ferguson hairdryer treatment back in 2005 when interviewing him because I asked a question he didn't like. You just have to keep your cool.
This is pretty much my take as well. Beane definitely came in hot, and that's not a good look for an NFL GM. And it was very out of character for him, which is notable. I'm sure he regrets getting angry on the air, but ultimately if he'd stayed calm the core message wouldn't have changed. (Just the tone and phrasing.)
On the DJ side, they were obviously very surpised that Beane came in hot - which makes sense because again, that's very out of character for Beane. I initially gave them somewhat of a pass on the "he chose violence" talk afterwards, because while it came across as whiny and thin-skinned, it was in the moment. But apparently they kept milking that angle for a couple days after? If so, that's bush league.
I will say that all parties did a good job of defusing the situation and eventually getting to a place of productive conversation.
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19 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:
I expect them to keep every player through camp and into the season. When the suspensions end, Solomon and Logue get cut and sent to PS.
Carter and Walker inactive on game days after the suspensions.Interesting take. In this scenario, what do you see as the usual d-line rotation? Especially at 1-tech DT.
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Sorry, I was in this thread early, then dropped off for a while. Can anyone catch me up on why there's a whole "trade for DJ Moore" sidebar? Is it just because they have the same last name? If so, I'd like to start an additional sidebar about the great Herman Moore, star WR for those 90s Barry Sanders Lions teams. His best season came in 1995, when he caught a league-leading 123 passes for 1686 yards and 14 touchdowns. Dude was like an early Megatron prototype - 6'4", 210 lbs, great hands and jumping ability.
As for Elijah, thanks to @Normaliswear for the May 1st info. Hopefully that's accurate and we sign him May 2nd. I'm a little skeptical though, just because we're currently at a net -2 in the comp pick formula, so it's pretty unlikely we'd care about whether Moore counts or not. I'm still fully on board to sign Moore after looking at Spotrac's list of free agent WRs. He's young, potentially still getting better, would add speed to our offense, and can play inside and out. This thread has included some evidence that he's better on the outside than in the slot, so I hope the Bills would give him a chance at both and not just pigeonhole him as slot-only.
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27 minutes ago, BillsVet said:
The personnel planning on defense compared to offense is such a stark contrast. They went DT and DE because their depth there will thin out real fast after 2025.
Yet, at WR there's never been much planning ahead. They can get out of Samuel's deal after this season, Palmer after 2026, which leaves only Coleman and Shakir long-term. They have little in development unless you count a guy like Shavers who has been waived after his last 2 camps and put on the PS.
But they're here at WR today because it wasn't a priority, as others have mentioned for 2021, 2022, and 2023. Taking Kincaid was a backup plan when the WRs were essentially gone his draft year. Coleman was a double-trade down. Right GB...it's not that they don't have them...it's that they don't plan to continuously improve the position as they do the secondary, DL, and even the LBs.
Yeah, I think this is a fair criticism. Both the depth and pipeline at WR are pretty shaky right now. I'm fine with the stated approach of, "we don't need a true #1 WR, and especially not at market price for a #1 WR". But we can't put scrubs out there, either. There's plenty of question marks with our top 4 WRs, but they are all legitimate NFL players, and depending on how well Palmer works out, they might be a really effective group in this offense. But what happens if any of them get hurt? Our current WR depth chart gets scary real quick.
A lot of us would like Beane to get into the habit of taking a WR somewhere in the round 3-5 range, maybe not every year, but often. Most of those guys can play at least a little bit, and some of them develop into solid starters or even stars. Knowing that we won't be able to commit a ton of cap $ to the WR position makes it extra important to have a cost-controlled pipeline at the position. And again, we don't necessarily need major stars at WR, but we do need competent NFL players across the board. (And if one of those picks happens to turn into a star, well that's just fine.)
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22 minutes ago, Simon said:
I have no doubt they will be adding more guys to that room before the season (and maybe even during). They might not be the kind of high-end athletes we all want, but they won't be complete stiffs either. I honestly wouldn't be opposed to (or surprised by) them giving Claypool one last shot. They seemed to really like what he was doing in camp last year and he should be fully recovered from the toe injury.
I'm also not yet fully convinced that Cooper is completely out of the picture. Initially I thought the Elijah Moore visit spelled the end of Amari's chances here, but now I'm wondering if it was nothing more than them trying to apply a little pressure to Cooper to shlt or get off the pot. It's an outside chance, but not totally out of the ballpark.
Hang in there, brother. They are not done yet. 🤙
My two cents: I think it'll be very similar to last year - within the sever contstraints of available cap space and who's available, they'll do what they can to improve the team. Maybe it's only 1 stab at a bargain-bin vet instead of 2 this year. I'm guessing the list of guys they'll look at is something like Moore, Cooper, Claypool, Agholor, Chark, and MAYBE Deonte Harty if there's no bad blood from him being such a dud last time around. Both years WR has kind of been the runt of the offseason litter.
6 minutes ago, Pete said:Also, new kickoff rule, I thought speedy receivers would be in more demand. Marino was guessing that the preferred returner might be a fast running back. He explained it’s basically a running play, with how close the kicking team is
I've seen that thought a few places. It makes some sense, but I think it's important to note that it's like a goal line running play in the sense that there's basically 1 row of defenders then no one behind them. So for my preference, I want someone at least fast enough to not get caught if he breaks through the line. So I think I'd stil favor speedy guys who are good in the open field over convential halfbacks.
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1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:
What's the over/under in replies to any topic where we are reminded that we didn't win the Super Bowl yet. 2.5?
Wait, we didn't win the Super Bowl???? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
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1 hour ago, Dr. K said:
I've had the same questions about Cooper. He seemed like a fit for the locker room, and he made a few plays, but he did not get thrown to anywhere near as much as I'd expected. Do Josh or Brady not trust him? Does Cooper think that the Bills were not using him properly, or have his skills deteriorated, or is it a matter of money? Seems weird that he's not been on the radar.
Or did he just fully hit the wall last season and is just cooked now? No matter what, it's puzzling.
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16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:
First off, they quite obviously should have done a better job addressing the position in the prior 3 drafts. They can triple dip on DL and DB this draft but couldn't double up on WR in a very deep 2024 draft?
But given the circumstance they'd put themselves in, trading for DK was definitely the play.
The trade price was right, give them a 2 and a day 3 pick to beat Pittsburgh's offer. Whether some fans were sure about paying him market rate or not he was like the IDEAL fit for their biggest need.......a deep threat they can keep on the field in every down. It's not a secret that the next free agent WR class is poor and the strength of this draft was defense. The WR class next year will probably look a lot like this past one, except this past one looked A LOT better on paper at this time last year. So 2-3 seasons may pass before you get a surer thing than DK was.
Palmer looks like an over-priced half-measure by comparison. Hopefully I am wrong about that but I just don't see an 8 figure aav boundary WR there.
Agree with the first 3 paragraphs. C'est la vie.
As to Palmer, I don't really buy it but there is some groundwork laid for me to be wrong. Palmer apparently has great analytics, from what I've seen played almost always at X, and averaged over 15 yards/catch the last two seasons. Him being just good enough to keep teams away from the Ravens/Texans game plan last year would be a huge help to the offense. I'd be really suprised by a Jeudy-like breakout season, but I don't think we need that for Palmer to be a really impactful signing.
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6 minutes ago, Logic said:
It's definitely an interesting question.
My eyes are on an AJ Epenesa trade and/or a DaQuan Jones cut.
They simply don't have room on the roster for everyone. And even IF they find a way to play the first six games with those guys, they'll need to make room once Ogunjobi and Hoecht return.My hot take is that Ogunjobi could be on the chopping block. Presumably as a trade rather than cut candidate, and maybe dead cap stuff makes both of those impossible - I haven't checked. But something about how the Bills didn't find out about his suspension until after they'd agreed to terms... just seems like they'd be willing to cut bait quicker than usual.
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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:
I've read very little of this thread, and I haven't heard much of the Beane interview. All I listened to was when he first came on the air and ripped into them about their (and other people's) constant yammering about what Beane hasn't done about the wideout position. I have a couple of thoughts.
First, I think it was bad form for Beane to do that, especially right off the bat. What I liked about it was that he didn't seem over-sensitive - it's not like his feelings were hurt. It was more like a barroom discussion where he came back strong in response to something stupid he heard. Still, there's a PR portion of his job, and embarrassing media guys in your market is something you should do only when they're really out of control, like Jerry Sullivan was several years ago. Beane should have kept quiet.
Having said that, I'm glad he spoke up for another reason, and that's because I and other people around here need more support in the argument about wide receiver that keeps raging here. People who think the Bills need a classic, burner, number 1 receiver simply are not paying attention. The Bills do not agree with you. They don't. They know what kind of personnel they need and want at wide out for the game they want to play. They collected a roomful of those players last season, they like that room, and they only tweaked it this year with the addition of Palmer.
How do I know they like what they have? Duh! - When they don't like what they have, they add players. Like they did on the d line this draft and in free agency.
Why don't they want the receiver so many people are begging for? I'd guess there are plenty of reasons. 1. They like the philosophy of spreading the ball around. They want to attack all over the field, in all different kinds of ways, and they don't want to have a player who demands the ball in order to make the offense work.
2. They don't want another prima donna, and star wideouts are prima donnas more often than most other positions.
3. They want guys who are good and aggressive blockers, and some, many, of the best receivers are not enthusiastic blockers.
4. They are ahead of the curve. A few months ago there was a thread here about how receivers are overpriced and their value is falling. It's the same phenomenon that I took so much heat for when I said running backs are a dime a dozen. The fact is that there are a lot of skilled receivers out there, so many that you can get them pretty cheaply. It's much better to spend your money on other positions and run a team concept in your receiver room, which is what the Bills are doing. For example, because they are dedicated to their rotation on the defensive line, the Bills essentially need 8 or 10 starter-caliber defensive linemen. To have 8 or 10 starters, you have to dedicate resources - money and picks - to that position. If you're going to do that, you need to underspend someplace else. The Bills think their team approach in the receiver room allows them to have a good passing game without spending outrageous dollars on the talent.
People will argue that the best receivers are so special, they make plays, etc. Well, yeah, and I get it, but they have a tendency to become the go-to guy in big play situations. That means that on third and twelve, he's always your best option, and the defense knows that, and the defense has schemed for that. The Bills play a different way. With their collection of decent speed, different sized, good blocking, reliable receivers, on third and twelve the Bills say to the defense, "Cover all of them." The defense doesn't even know WHICH receivers are going to be on the field until the Bills put their package on the field 25 seconds before the snap. All the defense knows is that it's going to be some assortment of one or two running backs, one or two or no tight ends, and a collection of wideouts, all of whom can get deep, all of whom can line up anywhere, all of whom can catch, and all of whom can block. It's completely obvious that that is how the Bills want to play.
McDermott's philosophy is that he wants his team to be able to play as many different ways as they possibly can. He wants players who can execute everything anyone has ever done successfully on a football field. In order to do that, he needs versatile players, not great players with limited skills. That's why all the defensive linemen they get have speed and quickness. Why did it take so long for them to go after a 340-pound defensive tackle? Because they've been waiting for one with foot speed and quickness. They believe they can teach a big guy with foot speed how to anchor the center of the line, but they can't teach a big guy who anchors naturally to run fast. In the receiver room, it's pretty clear. Samuel, Shakir, Coleman. They're not identical, they all have strengths that make them a bit different from the others, but what they share is versatility and commitment to team play. Palmer looks like another one. They seem to be hoping they can grow Shavers into that sort of role, .
or Prather - they both are in the Gabriel Davis mold, a different kind of versatile wideout.
I'm not saying Beane and McDermott are right when they take this approach. I actually don't know. However, I understand their approach, and where I agree with Beane in his rant is that it seems pretty silly for people to insist that the Bills should take a different approach when this approach obviously has been successful. The Bills score a lot of points and win a lot of games. It is very difficult to convince me or McBeane that they would score more or win more with a stud receiver who cost the Bills a lot of draft capital or cap room.
Appreciate your thoughts as always, @Shaw66. And I agree with most of the above. But to some extent, you're arguing against a strawman. Most of the criticism I've seen on this board isn't "we need Jamarr Chase", it's "we were dead last in WR separation last year and looked like garbage against the Ravens and Texans", with a little of "Josh Allen had the ball with the game on the line and our offense turned the ball over on downs". As good as our offense was last year, it had a deficiency - it was limited in its ability to attack down the field. Most teams didn't have the personnel and/or scheme to take advantage of that deficiency, but the ones that did are also the ones we face in the playoffs every year. @HappyDays says it well here:
9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:It's about getting a WR with a specific necessary skill set. I didn't need the Bills to spend a top 100 pick on a WR from this class or multiple picks. I just wanted a WR that could play outside and get vertical, that's all. The role is so important they got rid of MVS so they could trade for Cooper last year. As of right now we don't even have an MVS on the roster, the role remains unfilled.
Also for a team with an "everybody eats" mentality the #5 WR is more important than it is for other teams. Yeah when your top 2 are Chase/Higgins or Hill/Waddle no one cares who your #5 is. But when your offense is built around WRs that are all complementary role players with specific skill sets, you better make sure all the skill sets are accounted for and every player has a way to contribute.
I don't know how anyone couldn't be concerned that we're going to see games like the Ravens and Texans last year where the offense was a slog because we had no way to threaten them downfield outside. We added Cooper and the lights clicked on. We at least need to get that baseline on the roster. I thought early day three was a great opportunity to do that in this class.
Similar to the Bills' defensive philosophy of having starter-level players rotating in and out on the d-line, the Bills need to have guys across the skill positions who can take advantage when the ball comes their way. On key 3rd downs, we don't have a go-to guy that we're going to force the ball to. That means that to some extent, the defense gets to dictate where the ball is going, and smart defenses will ensure that goes to the weakest link on offense. I feel like there's two things here:
- Our current group has good players, but no one who has shown they can win deep at the NFL level. (Maybe 1 guy, depending on how you feel about Palmer. I haven't watched enough Chargers games to have a real opinion, and I'm taking the stance that I'll believe it when I see it. "Show me the baby" and whatnot.)
- Our current group has some good players, but the WR depth chart gets ugly really quick.
#1 is a problem because good defenses don't have to worry about the whole field. By the way, "win deep" doesn't have to be a fast guy - see George Pickens for example. But it does have to be a guy who produces actual success for the offense when the defense dares us to try it. If defenses adjust and take away the deep ball, then we have room for the WR screens and over the middle stuff to work better. Right now, we have 0 or 1 guys who can do that, and it's fair for fans to worry about that.
#2 is a problem because... well, look at the Texans game last year. We don't need any elite WRs, but we need everyone who takes the field to be a legit NFL player, because there's a good chance the ball comes his way on 3rd down. Right now, we have 4 WRs who fit that bill, and who knows, maybe Shavers is a 5th. But we typically have 5 active on game day and injuries happen. If Josh Palmer gets hurt, do we have anyone on the roster who can get open against man coverage? If Shakir and Samuel get hurt, how do we feel about a top three of Palmer/Coleman/Shavers?
Final note: I think or maybe just hope that in private, Beane and McDermott mostly agree with me on this. That's why they signed MVS and Claypool last year, and that's why they brought in Elijah Moore for a visit the other day. In their ideal world, they'd get a guy who is both fast and can win deep, and failing that, they'd get a guy who provides 1 of the 2.
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12 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:
They're trusting a lot of Kincaid and Coleman's regression being simply down to injuries. If they're right, then we could well be celebrating a Super Bowl win in February. If they're wrong, then it will probably be the same result of more angst over the off season over what could have been and what should have been done differently.
And if the offense has issues this year through natural regression, such as the number of turnovers increasing towards the mean, Josh perhaps being world class instead of otherworldly and some of Cook's plays being worked out on defense, then something different may be required. And quite a few people will be sadly saying "I told you so".
There is time left to bring a WR in. And I think most people liked the draft picks over the past few days - even if some aren't fans of the players themselves, they're fine with the thought process. From there, could they have got Royals or another WR in round four? I guess that's what every thread is boiling down to. Him or Walker.
Regarding Coleman specifically, I think it's more than just the wrist injury. Looking at NFL players as a whole, there's pretty clear statistical evidence that the biggest jump in production is between years 1 and 2. It doesn't always play out that way at an individual level - Micah Parsons was a sensation as a rookie, Eric Moulds broke out in year 3, Michael Clayton had a great rookie year ages ago, then never did anything again. But it's not crazy or clutching at straws to think that Coleman will be a significantly better NFL player in year 2 than year 1. Especially, IMO, since he's a pretty young prospect - he's about to turn 22 in a couple weeks. He's at the point where most NFL players are still ascending athletically.
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6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
For the Bills, on defense, not so much.
2024: 32 (3rd in the NFL)
2023: 30 (3rd in the NFL)
2022: 27 (4th in the NFL - despite playing one game fewer)
2021: 30 (3rd in the NFL)
- - - - years below are 16 game seasons - - - -
2020: 26 (3rd in NFL)
2019: 23 (10th in the NFL)
2018: 27 (8th in the NFL)
2017: 25 (9th in the NFL)
They have NEVER been outside the top 10 in takeaways under Sean McDermott. That is staggering consistency and says something about how well coached they are on that side of the ball.
What was unusual about last season - and is unlikely to be repeated IMO - was their record low in giveaways. They have generally been around middle of the pack in terms of giveaways - averaging 20ish turnovers per year. Then last year suddenly they had a record low with 8 and when you couple that with their consistent ability to take the ball away on defense they suddenly rocketed to the top of turnover differential and that contributed to wins, without question.
Fully agreed. On the offense side, the best thing going for us statistically is that last year was a new scheme and new philosophy under a new OC. That’s the kind of thing that can have a major shift on TO rate. But, even granting that the Everybody Eats offense is one that inherently takes care of the ball, there’s only so much they have control of. Last year, we did a great job taking care of the ball, and also got most of the 50/50 breaks.-
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Which NFL team had the best offseason so far? Which has had the worst?
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
My take is a little different: I think they're taking a swing at having a real superstar for once, and being relevant. No one cares about the Jags. No one's ever cared about the Jags. Trevor Lawrence is a good(?) QB, but not cool enough to be a major star without major wins. Hunter is potentially the coolest player in a long time. And as a bonus, he's from Georgia and appears happy to be playing close to home. A potential superstar who actually wants to be there? That could be a game changer for a franchise like Jacksonville.
If Hunter makes it as a two-way player in any meaningful capacity, he will be the favorite player of a whole generation of young fans. And it could work on-field as well. I assume the plan is for Hunter to shore up the pass defense at CB and be functionally the WR2 to BTJ on offense. (I know the GM has said they're going to lead with WR and ease him into defense. In the interview I watched, that sounded like an onboarding plan with the goal of Hunter playing both ways this year and beyond.)