Zulu Cthulhu

4th round or later, sure. Before that, no.

That's fair - I am hesitant to beat that horse again in a new thread since there were so many last month. To Polian's comments specifically, I wonder if his opinion extends to someone like Marshawn, who'll probably get serious consideration when he becomes eligible.

Yes even Donovan McNabb. Look, it's pretty clear the HOF is occupied by certain people who aren't exactly paragons of humanity, OJ being only the most prominent example. But if people want to disregard the non-football stuff I get it. But to then attempt to assign a value to a player's "teammate-ness," or whatever you want to call it, is folly. Can we claim that all the of players in the HOF currently were good teammates? Can we know for sure? Well, I'd look no further than some of the Super Bowl era Bills that have recently been inducted. During that time and since, many local writers have shared stories about the fractiousness within the locker room at times. So were Jim, Bruce, Thurman always great teammates? Probably not, but they still got in with relative ease (not Andre.) But on the field, they all proved their worth. TO did as well.

My Harrison example definitely is pertinent to Polian's comments, because Polian was Harrison's strongest supporter after he failed to get voted in, even calling for "investigations" into the voting process in the aftermath. However you are right - Harrison was never prosecuted, much less convicted, for the shooting or the related murder. There were only allegations made by eyewitnesses. Pretty serious allegations, though - one guy did end up dead after all. I'd argue then that the allegations can still be pertinent when considering someone's character as a whole. That the HOF rules dismiss this from consideration is bogus in my view. Here's a good overview of the Harrison ordeal, in case any of you are curious and haven't read it, btw: http://www.gq.com/story/marvin-harrison Terrell Owens, similarly, was never convicted of anything. But over his playing career he sure was subject to a lot of allegations (mostly by out-of-touch media members, many of the same ones voting to keep him out of the HOF now.) Sure, even some ex-teammates made allegations about TO's character, his supposed disruptive nature, etc. Yet TO continued to produce at an elite level over a very long career on a comparatively small number of teams. Owners, coaches and quarterbacks that TO actually played for and with have said (in public even! imagine that) that he belongs in the hall. But the voters chose to sweep all that aside and let the allegations sway their votes. All I'm saying is you can't pick and choose. The voting rules need to be changed. Would it not be fairer to simply judge based on candidates' actual production on the field? The stuff that can be objectively measured and compared? Doesn't seem that crazy to me.

I think everyone knows what the stated HOF "guidelines" for the voters are, the point is that methodology is BS. Allowing the voters to consider a candidate's worthiness as a "teammate" based on hearsay and other anecdotal evidence strays into making value judgments that these writers aren't qualified to make. But since they are allowed to make them, apparently, it makes even less sense to then turn around and forbid the voters from considering other factors that, rightly or wrongly, also factor into making value judgments about candidates. For instance, a man opening fire on a busy street with two handguns in broad daylight might make me, for one, determine that that man is an unhinged thug who belongs in prison, not the pro football hall of fame.

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

Well we definitely agree on this.

How does retaining TT but releasing Shady support a total rebuild? Please provide me with the inside scoop from all your "sources"

Yup. I'd take him in a heartbeat what with the corpses on the WR unit currently (minus Watkins).

Thanks K-9 for actually clearning up what exactly Badol was talking about. Again, the OP may well have additional information, and it would be very Billsy to cut their best offensive player. My only point was I thought it was very coincidental that the post was created almost exactly the same time the dumb reactions to the instagram post about the autograph signing starting happening (Wawrow debunked the twitter trolls right away, btw). Not when Skurski posted his article, nor when any other trade/release rumors were circulating.

Must be getting salty in your old age then because you're laying on the snark pretty thick. Again, and hopefully this is the last time I'll need to repeat it for you - whenever the rumor started was not my point. The thread was started almost simultaneously with the instagram post reactions. I just found that a little coincidental and commented. And haven't seen any follow up info from the OP, so I'm going to go with my first assumption that there are no real credible sources. Unless you can provide some old timer.

Whether or not a version of this particular rumor surfaced a couple weeks ago as you say, I don't know. This thread didn't surface weeks ago though. It appeared exactly when I said it did, shortly after McCoy's instagram post was misinterpreted badly and taken out of context. So you basically refuted nothing I said, and took the opportunity to take some more cheap shots at posters you disagree with. Not a good look chief.

Respectfully disagree. This board used to have one or two very reliable posters with inside sources (I forget their handles at the moment) whose predictions were always on point (especially around draft time). They've left and I can't say I blame them. It's fine to relay clickbait or speculate. But it should be indicated as such, not as "inside info" from "my sources." Funny this thread popped up right after the first clickbait take on McCoy's instagram post popped up from some no name on twitter, huh?

People lie here all the time about having "sources," when they just regurgitated up something they saw on twitter. Sometimes it still results in good discussion however.

If true, Whaley should be shuffled out the door immediately after McCoy and Watkins. I've zero confidence in Doug conducting a complete tear down and rebuild.

No one seems confused except you. No one here is claiming McCoy is single-handedly going to lead this team anywhere. He is only one guy after all. Just happens to be the best offensive player on the team though, and a proven elite talent. Releasing him makes a mediocre team worse, that's really all I (and others above) are saying.

It baffles me that anyone would actually run with this obvious click bait and advocate the release of the team's best offensive player. Cap room can be saved elsewhere. And while McCoy's running style may not perfectly mesh with the new regime's running game philosophy, McCoy's proven over multiple years to be an elite back and seems versatile enough to produce in most systems. Gillislee has been a revelation and perhaps the best spell RB in the league, but he is utterly unproven as an every down back and no one can claim with certainty that he could assume that role and succeed.

It's not? Of course it is. Or at least as relevant as points scored. Total yardage can shed light on offensive efficiency, the ability to sustain long drives and control time of possession, etc. It's why it's one of the most basic team stats tracked and published by, oh let's see, everyone. Again, cherry picking statistics to fit your offensive preference is not an argument.

Yes really. And even if I didn't want anything to change, my point was it's going to. That's the reality. I cherry picked a team offensive statistic that backed up my opinion, same as you keep doing. Scoring all those points is great, but I'd much rather score the same amount a points utilizing a more balanced system, rather than the most recent one that put the team at a disadvantage when and if they fell behind late in games.

I highly doubt the new head coach hired the new offensive coordinator to simply ape the system of the guys who were canned. These notions of "it ain't broke" don't play in the real world with turnover in the coaching staff and players on team that still, STILL has not made the playoffs in forever. And no, I do not want to sit and watch the offense throw for 150 yards a game again.

Pretty funny. Honestly better than 95% of the attempts at humor or snark on here 👍🏼

For real? Good god. My buddy handles our invoice and I hadn't heard that from him yet. Not a good look to keep individual game tickets flat and remove that discount though. I've only been a season ticket holder since '07, but the fatigue is already setting in given the team's performance.

We'll say 2nd or 3rd (post Rice era). Reasonable minds can disagree. But that's us, and we don't get a HOF vote. Vic does.

I said something similar before but yes - as abhorrent as Vic's article is at least he came out with his stance publicly. I think most of this nonsense starts and stops with this anonymity these guys enjoy, as if they sre voting for the next pope or something. As far as Moss goes, he, in public, explicity, told the media that he tries when he wants to. Cant find TO ever saying something similar, and I've looked because this has infuriated me over the past week. But Moss has pressed the right flesh since retirement and it wouldnt surprise me if he got in since he's got a job in the media so he's in the club now. Love to know Vic's opinion on Moss.

Again, Amen. I'm embarrassed myself for not realizing it earlier.