The Big Cat

Let's not confuse the throw that was made with the play's first read. Also, didn't see/hear anyone complaining about the 30-40 yd strike on 4th and 2 that unquestionably turned the tide of the entire game. I don't think we need a top 5 QB. I wouldn't kick one out of bed for eating crackers, but make no mistake, a top 15 QB would have this entire offense looking light years better.

This because our defense is better. Sure. If that were a factor, the YPG rankings--at the very least--would be noticeably divergent. They're not.

The lengths we've gone now to criticize the OC (who admittedly deserves it, mind you, just not to the dizzying extent plastered all over this board) have reached a critical mass of what the !@#$-itude.

And that was the whole point. To put to rest these revisionist memories of how spectacular the Gailey offenses were. I mean, c'mon, in his BEST year--which was significantly better than the other two--he just barely squeaked above average in YPG and PPG rankings...

But we keep hearing how much better the offense was under Gailey. That's just false. For the most part, it's been a lateral shift. If you have isolate Gailey's best year out of three to make your point about a coaching staff that's been around for half the time and have started twice as many quarterbacks, fine. Also, I don't believe Orton is an upgrade over Fitz. At all.

Where, precisely, do they have more talent? At WR? Okay. We swapped Stevie and Jones for Watkins and Woods. That's an upgrade. TE: same. OL: worse. QB: WORSE. RB: same. They have better receivers and a worse QB. Hardly amounts to the sweeping talent overhaul Chan revisionist would have you believe.

The argument isn't whether Chan would succeed with this defense. I've never disputed that. In fact, since last year, I've bemoaned what might have been with Chan/Pettine.

How bout this--if the ball never leaves the QB's hand and instead gets knocked OUT of his hand...and travels BACKWARD...IT CAN'T BE A !@#$ING INCOMPLETE PASS

Orton was terrible yesterday. And right on cue, the Hacket-sucks threads spread like wildfire! Incredible how that always happens.

Or you could just completely ignore the side by side comparison I just posted.

Along with Pouncey, Bellicheat, Kraft and others:

Hackett had quite the lip yesterday too.

But at one point do you acknowledge our weaknesses and acknowledge that defenses design for our limited strengths and take them away!? When your weaknesses out number your strengths like ours do, then what are you really asking for!? Also, can we please stop with the Gailey comparisons?

Right, we have some better receivers now. May be that's why the offense has performed better than it ever did with Chan here.

Also, under Marrone, this team has failed to put up double digits twice in 28 games, or once every 14 games. In 48 games under Gailey, we failed to put up double digits seven times, or nearly once every six games.

Virtually the same? You mean minus Andy Levitre, Pears playing out of position and a seventh round rookie at RT? I feel like "virtually the same" is a convenient stretch. This a myth. Seriously, look it up. In Gailey's best statistical year (2011), after the bye week, once the wheels fell off, the team averaged a whopping 18.4 ppg. Compare that to the 22 (albeit still not impressive) we're scoring now.

And the point I've been making all along is that with Orton/Lewis/Manuel/Tuel at quarterback and with the OL in its present form, there aren't a whole lot of strengths to play to. A lot of times? Gee, I sure hope the tape doesn't show you're lying/exaggerating as I suspect you are.

this should be pinned

So, he's supposed to know ahead of time--after Orton completed 75% of 32 passes the game prior--that the open throws would fall incomplete? I'm sorry, are we playing to win? Or are we playing to mask our weaknesses? And if you're calling for the latter, then you have no business criticizing anything about the OC. There's nothing to correct. I'll gladly say: Nate Hackett is no Chip Kelley. Was anyone disputing otherwise?

How many of those passes that you're butt hurt about were poorly thrown balls by Orton? Actually production is up. I take that back, it's not substantially better, you're right.

Well, I've already identified 19 quarterbacks whose OC's have a lot more success putting the ball in his hands, or, as is probably more likely the case, never face the problem of having opposing defenses prefer they pass the ball. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I honestly don't know how fans can asset this when the four QB's that have started under Hackett have all been tremendously sub-par.

We have much more room to do better at QB than we have room to do worse, IMO. Meaning, it doesn't get THAT much worse than Orton. It does, but only in like a catastrophic butt-fumble way. Meanwhile, it could be A LOT better. Orton is not nearly accurate enough to be as immobile as he is, and quite frankly, his cement shoes REALLY eliminate an essential dimension to his (any quarterback's) game. And with the way he missed receivers yesterday, he's running low on redeeming qualities that matter when the bullets fly.

Ditto the TD pass to Hogan. But let's not dwell on the good things the OC did to impact the game.

How many week 13 starters would you rather have? Here's the list, the ones I'd take in bold. Tom Brady (1) Ryan Tannehill (2) Geno Smith Andy Dalton (3) Joe Flacco (4) Ben R. (5) Brian Hoyer Andrew Luck (6) Ryan Fitz (7) Blake Bortles Metternburger P Manning (8) Rivers (9) A. Smith (10) Derek Carr Mark Sanchez Tony Romo (11) Eli Manning (12) Colt McCoy Aaron Rodgers (13) Matt Stafford (14) Jay Cutler T. Bridgewater Drew Brees (15) Matt Ryan (16) Cam Newton (17) Josh McCown Drew Stanton Russel Wilson (18) Colin K. (19) Shaun Hill Yes, I put Fitz on that list. But as far as omissions go, it's not like Orton is substantially better than Sanchez, Bortlers, Cutler and Carr. So I'd put him around the 20th best QB in the league, which is below average.