ax4782

No, you are just ignoring the fact that all of the information you are spewing to convince people that Cutler is so much better is just plain wrong. The statistics don't lie. Look at the links and the facts and I think you'll see that your position is misguided. At best. Cutler is not that much better than Edwards, and based on the stats Edwards appears to be the QB on the upswing, not Cutler. As for these three game stretches, why aren't you talking about the one Cutler had when their playoff lives were on the line over the last three weeks of the season when his numbers were just as bad as Edwards' over his worst three game stretch. I know reality sucks, but really, you can't go on pretending it doesn't exist. It's not my fault the facts don't like your argument. Try convincing them their wrong.

Right, because making the pro bowl is the best indicator of whether or not you do or do not suck. There've been a lot of QBs who've made the pro bowl because they had one good season that weren't top notch QBs. And um, look at the actual statistics that matter. Like the ones discussed above. If you had, this conversation would have stopped a long time ago. Cutler and Edwards are pretty even all around after last year, even though Cutler digressed from his first year stats and Edwards improved vastly all across the board. But hey, who am I to say which QB appears to have a bigger upside.

So when Cutler threw two touchdowns in the final three weeks of the season did that prove that he was a noodle-armed californian? I guess it did by the logic you are using. That's right. Read the post above and look at the stats. If people actually based their statements on facts rather than cow excrement we'd all be better off on this board. And right now, this Cutler trade tripe is smelling like a big steaming pile.

Did you actually read the above post where I discussed that point thoroughly or are you just repeating the same tripe everyone else advocating for this trade is spewing? Those were weeks 8-11, and Edwards wasn't the reason we lost that Browns game. But I guess since we're blaming everything else on him, why not the Cleveland game too? After those games the Bills were still over .500. That series of games didn't blow the season. Cutler, however, posted similarly horrible statistics over his worst three game stretch. The only problem was, that was the final three games of the season, one of which was against us, when they only needed to win one game to make the playoffs, and he blew them all. What was that about single-handedly flushing seasons down toilets? Perhaps that was the sound of your unsubstantiated post going back from whence it came.

Actually, looking at the stats, he is NOT better than Edwards, and he did not improve last year over his first season's performance. In fact Cutler got WORSE his second year. Not the case with Edwards. He improved in every statistical category in 08 over 07. Nothing about Cutler says he's a winner, incluing his cry baby attitude and his inability to show up when the team needed him. Edwards at least knows how to conduct a game winning drive, considering he's actually done it more than once. Also consider how well Edwards was able to do last season considering the absolute lack of talent we had in the receiving department. Then look at the fact that Cutler got worse, statistically, after they gave him more targets. Nothing about Cutler says he's any better than Edwards, and in fact, I would argue, there's a lot more to like about Trent as our QB than there is to justify bringing in Jay Cutler.

Either way, Scheffler would be a great addition for this football team and would allow us to fill our biggest needs on both the OL and the DL in the draft this year. Wasting time trying to get Cutler, who is no better than Edwards (see numerous other threads and the actual statistics for the two players) is dumb and a waste when we have so many needs and Edwards has a ton of potential. Our TEs, however, need help, and Scheffler would be a huge boon for the offense. The likes of having to stop Owens, Evans, Scheffler and Reed in the slot where he is most effective is going to be a real nightmare if this actually happens.

Scheffler yes. Cutler no. We already have our resident cry baby here with Jason Peters. We don't need three people on this team all saying it should be about them all the time.

Completely agree. And unfortunately for Alpha on this point, the statistics just aren't with him.

Sending Trent AND Lynch for Cutler? This is just getting insane. Cutler isn't that much better that he can make up for the offensive production of both of these players. Why are we trying to make ourselves worse by advocating for this kind of a trade, rather than focusing on the areas of our team where we have real needs?

Another Cutler is better than Edwards thread. Can we please make this stop. These are just getting old and annoying now.

I smell a bull setting excrement down in a field somewhere. I love stupid statements not backed up by any sort of facts whatsoever. Cutler didn't make Denver a playoff contender with that great arm and a much better offense than we had last year, so what the makes you think he's going to be SOOOOOO much better here in the Bflo?

What's frustrating is when people make claims based on stats, and the stats don't meet the claim. You say Cutler is so much better than Edwards based on the stats, and that he is clearly the more complete Quarterback. Fine, then let's look at the actual statistics of both players from last season as accessed from ESPN.com and see how you're theory stacks up. Here's the link for those who are interested: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 Just for fun, here are the stats listed at the above link. Jay Cutler 2008 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 384 616 62.3 4526 7.35 93 25 4.1 18 2.9 11.0 69 86.0 Trent Edwards 2008 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 245 374 65.5 2699 7.22 65 11 2.9 10 2.7 23.0 143 85.4 Let's also note that they were rated 16th and 17th overall respectively in the league last year. That being said, look at the numbers. Cutler had 242 more passing attempts than Edwards, and 139 more completions. Blame that on Denver's lack of a run game, or whatever, there's the statistics. Also, keep in mind that these are Edwards' stats over fourteen games last year, not sixteen. He would have had more attempts and more yards, likely over 3000 had he started those additional two games. Even still, Edwards is a more accurate passer by the percentages. His YPA is the same as Cutler's, he has a lower INT% than Cutler and they have virtually the same QB rating. (.6 on the rating scale, even over a full season, is a small differential). Cutler did throw for more interceptions, but at the same time he threw that many more passes. Same could be said for the INTs, but that's why the percentages are important. There is little difference between their performances last year, so to say that Cutler was so much better is bogus. Now for your second argument, that Cutler improved so much more than Edwards, who you claim regressed. Well, the numbers, as you've been trying to cite them, don't match up there either. Let's look at 2007 just for craps and giggles. Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2007 Jay Cutler 2007 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 297 467 63.6 3497 7.49 68 20 4.3 14 3.0 27.0 153 88.1 Trent Edwards 2007 Comp. Att. % Yds YPA LG TD TD% INT INT% Sack SYds Rating 151 269 56.1 1630 6.06 70 7 2.6 8 3.0 12.0 105 70.4 Anyone else see the pattern. Oh yeah, CUTLER was the QB who actually got worse in 2008. He was the 12th rated QB in 2007, had a better completion percentage, touchdown percentage, yards per attempt and overall QB rating. Trent, on the other hand improved in every single statistical category except his longest pass completion in 08 was not as good as 07. I guess that must be the stat you were basing your statements on. Aren't statistics fun? I think so. Okay, so let's look at your other complaints in the analysis shall we? You wonder why people prop up Edwards when our D won us three games, in your estimation. First, I'd ask you to be more specific concerning which three games those were. The two Greer picks are pretty obvious, but please clarify the third. I assume, having watched all 16 games, that you are referring to the SD game, but that might be a stretch to say the Mitchell's interception won us that game. TE played pretty well that day. That being said, how many teams that win in football don't count on their defense to help out in critical situations. You think the Ravens have been this good for so long without a defense that makes plays at critical times? I think not. Your argument has nothing to do with whether or not Trent is comparable to Cutler based on wins and losses. Now, as to your other chief complaint, that Edwards had this three game stretch of losses where he had 2 TDs and 10 INTs. Well, that, strictly speaking is inaccurate, just looking at his statistics page on ESPN. The link follows: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10536 Looking at said link, the only stretch you could be referring to was a four game losing streak between weeks 8 and 11. The Cleveland game was one we should have won, and didn't, not because Trent played badly (though it wasn't his greatest first quarter in history) but because our vaunted special teams failed to convert a relatively easy field goal. The three games prior to that, however, are the ones I assume you are referring to. During that three game stretch you can see that Trent did only throw 2 TDs. He did, however, only throw 5 INTs, so that takes your overexaggerated ratio right back down to earth. In fairness, then, let's look at Cutler's worst three game stretch of the season last year statistically. Here's the link for those numbers: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9597 Taking a look, his worst three games came at the worst possible time, the last three weeks of the season when they needed to win only one game to assure themselves of a playoff birth. I guess he couldn't perform under pressure. During that stretch of games Cutler threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs. Slightly better than Edwards, but not much. Then let's look at the competition each of those QBs had those stats against. Trent played against the Dolphins, Jets, and Patriots. They were ranked 15th, 16th and 10th overall defenses respectively. Cutler had is terrible play against Carolina, Buffalo, and San Diego the 18th, 14th, and 25th ranked defenses in the league. On average, Edwards had his worst play against teams that were on average, better than the teams Cutler played his worst games against. Just wanted to point out that the statistics are not on your side here. Please stop this nonsense about Cutler being the more complete QB and being more improved than Edwards and finally putting it together last year. He regressed, in some categories significantly, while Edwards improved as a QB in EVERY SINGLE STATISTICAL CATEGORY. This crap about needing to trade Edwards for another QB who IMO is highly overrated with offensive weapons he had needs to stop. With the numbers Edwards had last year with our anemic offense imagin what he could have done in Denver. JUST SAY NO TO A CUTLER TRADE!

Peppers isn't going to come to Buffalo. Nor do I think he will sign with the Patriots. He simply wants way too much money. That being said, if he went to NE, then we had better resign Peters, because right now, he's the only guy on the team that even has a chance of blocking that guy for two games a year. Washington and Dallas are better bets.

Tim, Can you please put this Cutler trade to Buffalo nonsense to rest. People are (for whatever reason) going crazy over this, and it seems like there's no way this can be true. Buffalo trading away for a QB who has just as much to prove as Edwards doesn't seem to make any sense. Anyway, tell us what, if anything, you've heard so we can put this baby to rest. Thanks.

If in fact the Bills are bringing in Mike Goff for a visit tomorrow they better not let him leave without a contract. He would be a very solid OL acquisition and is an exceptionally good run blocker. Putting him next to Peters, assuming they can come to terms with him at some point, would make for a monster left side of the OL. That would allow Hangartner to play his natural position at C and allow for Butler and Walker to stay on the right side. That would be a pretty solid starting group. With a few good draft choices we might finally have an OL we can be proud of.

Ask Dolphins fans if that worked out real well for them with Dan Marino. He sure threw a lot of TDs, but how many Super Bowls did he win for them? Oh yeah, Zero. Game managers lead teams to titles. Gunslingers generally don't. Some QBs can do both, but not many. His statement was far less ridiculous than yours or the persons' he was commenting on.

Can anyone say that we shouldn't have paid Bruce Smith that extra money either? Not saying that Peters is the kind of player that Bruce was (not by a long shot) but IMO both are worth the money. Peters was playing better the second half of the season, and still has huge upside. When he plays to his potential, he's the best LT in football. However, if he's a top 10 LT he should be compensated like one. Right now he has the 21st rated salary for LTs, meaning that there are also RTs that make more than him. In fact we have one on the team right now. In fact, last season, Peters made the lowest salary of any starter on our OL. Our best OL had the lowest salary. PErhaps there's something wrong with that? Maybe not, since his play did fall off, but he does deserve a raise. 11.5M, no, but he should probably get something in the 9.25M range. And everyone that says we should just trade him for picks, where are we going to magically dig up another LT and an LG. You want two rookies starting on TE's blind side. If you thought people were blaming the QB for stuff last season, just wait. The first three games and they'll be roaming the streets with axes and pitchforks coming for Trent's head with two rookies on the left side. TE won't stand a chance. The fact is, we have other holes on the team that we need to address, particularly at the DE and OLB positions. We don't need to create more needs at key positions by getting rid of top ten players. And any tackly that you can find to play for Peters' current salary is going to be a significant drop off in talent. Let's see where this thing goes over the next couple of weeks. It's early in negotiations and we all know there's no way Peters is getting 11.5 mil per season. But 9.25-10 Mil I don't think is unreasonable.

Take a look at the game winning drive stats. That's what I'm talking about. Trent has done that numerous times. I don't know that I've seen Cutler do that more than once or twice. A comparison between Edwards and Plummer is a bit silly, I think, but the fact is, if Edwards had the receiving weapons that Cutler had, playing in that offense they were running in Denver last year, Denver doesn't miss the playoffs. Edwards is a very intelligent and efficient Quarterback, who is on a team with less talent than they had in Denver. And I'd rather have a QB who can keep the game close and win it in the Fourth Quarter than one who can't. Cutler did not look that impressive last year and as other posters have noted, his stats are inflated because they were throwing the ball an average of 40 times last year. Blame that on their lack of depth at RB if you want to, but if Edwards was throwing 40 times, he'd have more yards passing too. There is a lot more to playing QB than pure statistics. Edwards is a better all around QB than Cutler, and has a lot more upside. We've seen everything Cutler can do. He's a gun slinger who makes poor decisions. So was Dan Marino. How many Super Bowls did he win? I'll take the Joe Montana type QB, who makes smart plays and has an average arm, than a risk taking gunslinger any time. It's not as exciting, but the potential for winning games is greater. To say that Cutler is in a league above Edwards purely based on passing stats is silly. Neither one has played in the greatest of situations, and neither one has done much. However, with better weapons around him this year, I expect that TE will be a much better QB, and by the end of the season people who were calling for a trade like this will be asking for their plate of crow. And of course, if I'm wrong, I will happily call for mine, but right now, trading Edwards AND draft picks for a guy who has just as much to prove would be a serious mistake, especially considering the number of holes we need to fill on this team.

Before we all decide to take a run off a cliff, perhaps we should consider the possibility that so far the negotiations on the contract are in the preliminary stage and that both sides are taking a flyer to find out where the other side is coming from? Maybe its just me, but there are a lot of things still going on in the offseason and the Bills haven't finalized all of their FA and Draft signings. Until that happens they won't really know how much money they have to give Peters an extension. Not to mention, they are going to have to be prepared to give an extension to Edwards, Lynch and Poz after this year if they don't want to run into problems retaining them. While I would love for them to throw everything at Peters to keep him, because he is very talented and a huge building block for this team going forward, there are a lot of considerations to keep in mind, a fact about which both sides must be aware. And as to the fact that Peters gave up a ton of sacks last year, those numbers are accurate, but look at when in the season he gave up most of them. The majority were at the beginning of the season when he was just coming back and out of shape and when the Bills were winning their games anyway. He was a much better lineman at the end of the season and was playing at a starting LT level by week six or seven. He would have been back to form by the end of the year had it not been for injury. I do think that Buffalo will give him the extension, I just don't know that it is going to be this week or next week. I would guess they may even wait until after the draft.

No one can argue that if the situations were reversed that people on this board would be whining. You and I both know that's true. But the fact is people whine on this board about everything they think will hurt the team. That's what fans do. The fact remains, however, that statistics alone don't mean much for a player. How many playoff games has Cutler led the Broncos to? How many have they won? Anyone who watches football as you accuse me of not doing, knows that the position of quarterback is about a whole lot more than statistics. You failed to answer the question I posed, because you wouldn't like the answer. HOw many times has Cutler led the Broncos back to win a game in the Fourth Quarter? How many times has Edwards done that? BUffalo has at least an 8-8 record if TE doesn't get hurt last year. Just as good as Cutler. The coaching staff last year here wasn't the staff that Shananhan worked with, or with an offense that was nearly as established. As in this was the first year we ran that particular scheme as opposed to Broncos who have run that offense for at least seven years.

And what's your point? When it comes down to it, Cutler won one more game than Edwards last year, and TE was out for four games, two of which we probably could have won had TE been playing instead of our boneheaded former backup. Trent is a better QB in a number of categories, and take a look at how they perform in the fourth quarter, which, anyone will tell you is the key to seeing whether a young QB is likely to develop beyond their production in the first three or four seasons. You'll notice that Trents' statistics are much better in the Fourth Quarter. Not to say that the defense wasn't the weak link, because statistically they were, but Cutler wasn't really that good for how high their offense was rated. You think all that trade talk was because the Broncos were convinced that Mr. My-Arm's-Stronger-Than-Elway's was clearly the future of their franchise? I don't think so considering they were trying to acquire Matt Cassell, who's last start before last season was in high school, in a trade. Let's try and look at reality here. If TE plays a full season his numbers are closer to Cutler's and likely he has an equal or better record than Cutler. And as so many people on this board like to point out, wins and losses are what count.

LMAO!

I thought trolls only came out early in the morning and late at night. I guess I was wrong. The fact is, he didn't have much more talent in Dallas than he will in Buffalo. The receiver on the other side in Buffalo is better than his compliment in Dallas. Buffalo has a better RB than Dallas, and, frankly, Dallas hasn't exactly been a shining beacon of talent over the past five years, considering how they always seem to get picked to win the SB and then don't even make the playoffs or have a QB who can't get a hold down for a field goal. I know you're still crying over the fact that the Cheatriots, Dolfags, or Jests, whichever one it is that you inevitably root for weren't able to get TO so that you could get that long missing swagger back in your step, but perhaps we should see how the season plays out before we start tempting fate. I'm uncertain as to what type of impact TO will actually have. He's getting old for a receiver, though he still managed to have a very solid season last year and seems to have a lot in the tank. As for his antics, frankly, he has more to lose than gain. He's hoping to get one more contract somewhere for big money, be it in Buffalo or elsewhere. Only TO knows where he desires to truly go. But by looking like a problem rather than a solution, TO stands to make Buffalo his last stop. Being on good behavior and being a leader, however, could pay him dividends in terms of his contract. Please take your childish instigatory antics back to whatever hole of a page it was that you crawled out of so that people who want to discuss relevant topics on this board can do so.

So true.

The report on BB.com was pretty clear that the workout went by with flying colors and he was deemed fit. Buffalo just hasn't signed him to a contract. I have a feeling Simmons wanted to wait and see what the market was like. He's probably finding it it pretty dry out there. He'll be back. As for the draft, I think you're right on. I'm hoping Alex Mack is there in the second round, but more likely he won't be. If not Mack, I hope Buffalo can get Unger at G. Guy seems like a beast and a steal for where Buffalo can likely get him.