YellowLinesandArmadillos

Generally, I would agree with you, but this family has used family Members in all of its politics...including Neil and Barbara, mostly behind the scenes for fundraising, but occasionally for more public event. Their very actions make them as individuals part of politics, so they are not exempt if they are part of. Your family exemption logic breaks down as a result. Even the twins have gotten into the act occasionally, although they seem to have toned it down a bit lately. Another hypocritical statement from the right given how you guys went after Theresa Heinz and Cynthia Edwards, not that I don't believe they were fair game.

Yep, gonna keep on doing it because I am right. Granted Bush guys stole it fair and square, he outmaneuvered Gore folks and underestimated how low in the gutter you would go until it was too late. That is politics, but at least I don't deny it. You guys whine and than act like Sanford going through the big one when anyone calls you on it. And the king of whining is on your side...Orin Hatch. Great actor, he should be Hollywood. I have even seen him break up Senator Kennedy with his tactics.

Yep, I know you GOP oppologists had fun beating on Gore for his 1998 tax return, whatever, Johnni Coli said it best, and you got hutzpah proclaiming it is some great act....please. Just hurts a little when the shoe is on the other foot. Especially when it involved that real black sheep of that family...Neil. You know the son with another crazy scheme that he can't sell, so Mom, feeling sorry for him, tries to bail him out while still trying to look above the fray in the process. It is called enabling. There is help for that, but in the guise of charity, Barbara shouldn't have exposed herself to such a low level of gullibility. I guess she felt Neil has lost enough money on hair brained schemes and non-producing oil wells that she felt at least it was going somewhere good to schools. I would love to see the software and see if it is actually worth anything. Sounds like one of those late night commercials for cds to show you how to work windows or word.

Tell me how you really feel, LOL

Man you sure you want to open that pandoras box? Giving money to her son's company through a charity sounds pretty bad on its face. Halliburton...hah! that is just the tip of the icebergs for sarcastic return posts and I haven't even really had time to think about it. It would sound bad if she donated it for 100,000 blankets or mobile trailers if the donation was to her son. I am not going to impune any negative crap on you as a person, but your response stinks of Bush lemming itis, think about it and if you still feel that strongly have some of that White House wine our President is so fond of and sleep on it.

Oh common, you righties need a sense of humor and you complain about all the nepotism in Buffalo, give it a rest. The Bushs' just can't give with no strings attached, got to benefit someone in the family. Not so sure about the tax implications, you guys sure. Talk about whiny righties, maybe the Berkeley study was right.

Ah, but the potential jokes...edumacation software by my son Neil, pronunciation by my son George. Nepotism by my husband. Alcoholism by my grandaughters Jenna and Barbara. Can't think of one for Jeb...how to steal a Presidential election.

Hmm, going back to their roots, LOL, kinda like Jerry Falwell's church of christ. If a spoof has some truth.

Been there, done that, now trying to learn how to raise a son and another on the way, while starting my own business. No more control doing this either, but at least I get to think I am making decisions and have more influence over outcomes.

And I am such a liberal, still can't stand stupidity and lazy short cut-itis. You actually sound like your typical pragmatist, you want things to be better, know how to make a lot of it happen, willing to listen to good ideas, but suffer insanity, stupidity and things that have been tried and failed before with a lot of angst.

I couldn't agree more, that deserves to stay in a closet, better yet in some trunk in the basement of the Pentagon, a la "Raiders of the Lost Arc"

Heck McNamara couldn't figure that one, why should we believe that Rumsfeld could. You would have thought we would have learned, but learning takes a few brick walls when it comes to these can do kinda guys.

Yep I saw that, one little parade...even D.C. allows drag races even under Bush. So what. But I should probably stop digging at this point. I will only say that Berkeley compared to what it once was is a lot more conservative, not mid-west bible belting conservative, but...the mormons are recruiting.

For your info, the average house in the whole bay area is almost 600K. That isn't that much here. Sounds to me like you visited it once and don't live in the area. 640225[/snapback] No I don't, visitied a few times, was toddler there. However, I just know that my brother lives there and is trying to buy something bigger than a two bedroom and can't afford it. When you say 600,000 are you refering to single family? Or are condos included. If not we are probably not far off. I was referring to single family homes, condos shouldn't count, they are just glorified apartments and should be differentiated from that calculus. I just did a quick search and couldn't find any 3 bedrooms bigger than 2,000 sq ft for under 795,000. That was not even median. Sorry, I have a family now, and should have been more specific. Even a median at 639,000 median is pretty high. Compared to DC an area I recently lived in, it is expensive and DC area has been getting more expensive quickly lately.

640141[/snapback] No but the fact that a man can even think it is okay to treat a woman that way...as chattle seems to be more in line with conservative philosophy, including fundalmental Islam...shoot even that is not true but patriachial societal belief tend to eminate from conservatives. Besides it was such a fun satirical statement to make, kinda Carl Rove, Ken Mehlmanesque. So do right wing Muslims, the problem is the defining what is criminal and both go off the deep end. P.S. Berkeley is money now and so is the area, when money is involved people tend to get more conservative, not all bad, but they try and protect their possession and therefore want to jail left wingnuts etc. Hence, Berkeley has gotten a lot more conservative, go there sometime. There are street people yes, but you can't touch a house for under 7 figures.

Thanks for the insight, explains a lot about current policy and results. Military should reconsider or make at least make a short term stop over mandatory for the career ladder. Interesting about Powell, he just seems wise beyond his military training and unfortunately tired of dealing with political b.s. Can understand it though after going through the military b.s. all these years, why should he want to get used to b.s. that only smells different and relentlessly keeps on spewing.

Wing, go visit sometime, the conservatives own it now, the lefties are homeless on the street corners. It by and large has turned into a shopping plaza with upscale coffee shops. Oh sure there are closet liberals who have made money, but they keep their mouths shut. Berkeley is conservative, look at Scott Peterson...in Shiite Iraq it would have been no problem doing what he did and he almost got away with it here.

Is fundalmentalist religion ever peaceful, look at the history of Judiasm and Christianity, even the buddists in Sri Lanka are trouble makers. Getting tired of it.

Oh heck, I know some avante guard conservatives too, but the real ideas get generated by the extremes, even you would agree, and then adapted and made pragmatic by folks that can interpret than in to usefulness. I would consider Big Daddy Don Garlits a free thinker and they don't get much more right then him. Guy's a genius when it comes to cars. Ted Nugent is a free thinker and a righty. I am not sure I would or could proportionally generalize which side has the greater numbers though, still think it ebbs and flows depending on the amount of drugs or fundalmentalist religion provided each side. Both seem to send folks out onto ephemeral plains of thinking.

I heard the same thing back then from folks in the know about the intelligence, however, there was a lot of doubt about the validity of it and the depth of it. A lot of folks just questioned the assets and the political motivations of the assets. There was so few and a lot of doubts, not enough concrete evidence either way. Should've made everyone pause and suspect some sort of setup. The rest is history, even I could see the difficulty of dealing with the tribal b.s., Afghanistan should have given us some kinda of indicator.

Ghost you were a Berkeley baby?? Now that is impressive, I was born there before moving to Buffalo at 4 years old. There is video of me running around sit-ins and be-ins as a toddler before the drugs and b.s. took over. Folks were still dressed in suits and ties and kaki pants back then, when the true liberals were protesting. The "rioters for fun and profit," dope smoking and getting laid came later. The later not necessarily bad, just different and it coopted everything else. I don't buy the study, I know plenty of insecure liberals and self dillusional freaks who claim to be lefties. Also know the same quantity of righties that fall into the same category. I would modify the study to see if insecure folks tend to end up on the political extremes, speaking of which...Darin how was your childhood, Alaska eh? Now that is extreme....just kidding....

You're never going to get businesses to move in for nothing more than tax breaks because of all the long term costs associated with doing business in NYS. Unlike the voters, CFOs can understand a balance sheet and have to look at a crystal ball to keep their businesses healthy. 639562[/snapback] What are the long term costs minus some tax breaks, graft and protection money?

The old making your bed you lie in it adage applies here. Neglect and lack of inspiration provided to today's youth have left everyone who could get out, gone. The rest there are dependent upon government help. No surprise and now with all the fed cut backs except for the war effort and for give aways to drug companies, and with prohibitive tax rates and corruption eliminatingusiness investment opportunities, upstate is becoming like North Dakota, who really wants to live there? Cargill, Monsanto and ADM is taking over the farmland, I even heard the King Ranch has a sizeable chunck of upstate under its belt. Here comes mono-culture and high level pesticide use. Better check you wells for chems leaching from non-point sources.

Darin is right about the pop numbers Mickey, overall state is 17+ million 12+ in NYC and 4+ in upstate. Except Darin NYC is does drive the economy of the state and upstate politicians have been bought of and are incompetent both GOP and Dems. The GOP controls much of upstate and pays a lot of lip service to improving the economy up there but rarely delivers anything, the only area that seems to weather economic storms is the Southern tier. U.S. Rep. Amo Houghton ® of Corning Glass fame seems to have had a decent moderate balance between delivering projects and business acumem. Except he recently retired. What was interesting in this whole discussion is that it started out as a Republican Bash of Spitzer. Funny how it seems the Bloomberg is going to endorse Spitzer, how about them apples. On the other hand the corruption especially upstate and tax rates make D.C. taxes look reasonable. Heck, I moved to Massachusetts and despite criticisms, the taxes there are on par with Virginia's, in some cases a lot less, in others close. I guess NYS taxes wouldn't be so bad if you actually got some decent infrastructure for the dollars spent, but until pollution issues, clean air, and corruption is dealt as a result of the tax dollars you cannot expect young families to want to even telecommute from those areas. The relatively good schools just allow folks to get out quicker.

Oh sure there are a number of homeless people hanging on that anyone with a couple of bucks, some cardboard and finger paint can round up for a protest, but obviously no one on this board has been to Berkeley recently. My brother, who a partner in a corporate law firm and his wife can't afford to upgrade his small house there. It is cheaper for him to build up then buy new. The locals just tolerate the extremists, that get paid to show up there to protest in exchange for soup and salad, a little more than most places. The rest of this arguement is inane, I agree with Darin, wackos on both sides are equally amusing, however, given the greater stake the fringe right has in this government, recently their turnout for the GOP has been more consistent. This probably ebbs and flows, but with oxy for the right and mother nature for the left, I agree they are both on drugs.