LynchMob23

It definitely is something that is going to be a challenge, but having Callahan (a Walsh disciple) as o-line coach, he can speak "Favre" and make sure Brett understands the concepts of what the play is trying to do.

You very deftly didn't quote the part when he said for peace of mind Peters should show up to camp and be checked out to make sure he's ship shape.... But you're myopic nature refuses to allow stuff like that to register....

From the article on the main page: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/405179.html "What is unusual in Peters’ case is the silent treatment he is giving the Bills. He hasn’t replied to any text messages or voice mails left by team officials and he’s had very little contact with his teammates." For krazykat and all those who think the Bills are "being immature" by not communicating, they've tried and Peters and his agent are stone-walling them. What do you want the brass to do now, show up at his front door with flowers and a box of candy?

No one is disputing that Jason Peters is good. However, to assume that just because he's good he deserves to become more than the team, better than the team is a dangerous road to travel down. Peters did not show up, has not shown up, nor has any evidence by way of Bills doctors at this time to justify any sort of contract negotiation. Jason Peters has not since his january visit been to one bills drive. I don't care a lick what he makes, what he wants to make or what he will make. I'm not the fan that says "Jason Peters is making 3x what I do in a year in fines" because that in the long run doesn't matter. What does matter is if this guy wants to be paid like the elite LT everyone thinks he is, he should at least show up and perform as such. He and his previous agent signed that contract, and back then it was astronomical to pay. But he signed his tender, showed up to mandatory activities and was rewarded in the spring/summer. This time around he holds out, doesn't communicate and instead has put up a wall. I don't think it's an insult to one's pride to express to your employer that you're dissatisfied and desire a new deal, do you? Or would you prefer the Bills preemptively sign players they think are on the rise to "good" contracts to make sure they feel appreciated and paid commensurate to their performance? Wait, we did that with Peters and he still isn't happy....

Because the bills have to be as bad as possible to get a number one pick to use on a left tackle, then a quarterback, THEN we can waste picks on defensive backs....

And don't forget that Parker wasn't the agent that signed that deal - Peters just recently acquired the firm.

No, that's not speculation, that's fact as stated by the front office. They do not negotiate if you do not show up. They do not negotiate if you do not communicate. You merely choose to ignore the fact the the player in question, Jason Peters, IS WRONG. If he wants more money the brass has stated how he can get it: show up. Not too hard. If he wants to pout and not chat with them in person, then he will lose a lot of money. And if he's fine with that, that's on him.

Mickey, I do. And I don't hold either player in low regard - I just feel that if Peters wants more money, show up and say so. I'd rather have him in camp learning the new plays and getting himself and his teammates better (really, how do you expect a kid like ellis to get better vs chambers?) instead of just chilling at home and working out on his own terms.

If I remember correctly he was a redshirt sophmore was he not? I think that's job well done considering the circumstances....

Perhaps they were able to get the parameters on the contract set up as you've stated because Schobel showed up to mini camp, giving them the olive branch they wanted to begin negotiations?

The difference is, when it came to MANDATORY camps, Schobel showed up and Peters has not. OTAs, Schobel skips at a breakneck pace prior to his contract. But Minicamp and training camp he was there and working. To date, Peters has not even given that. That is the difference.

I think 'punk' is quite strong language. But, while Hardy's and Lynch's indiscretions were off-field (Roscoe too btw, his DWI/DUI shouldn't be swept under the rug) and eventually put to the side, since day one of off-season activities Peters has refused to honor the contract he signed - not with the team mind you, but with his teammates; to be at practices and seek to grow and get better with them. How many people on this board railed against Willis (I do not recall) when he would train in Miami? To me, Peters is not helping his cause by sitting. He won't be negotiated with until he shows up and if he doesn't by the 8th, he can lose the accredited season, keeping him at 3 years on that contract. I want him to play, but to say that because he's our best player the brass just cave is just foolish policy for the team to have. Otherwise, any young player who feels their contract isn't reflective of their status will merely sit and pout until they get their way. Defensive back conversation aside, I feel the line as it is can be good. It could have become better and still can become better, but Peters must decide at some point how much his inevitable raise matter. He's got the tools as you're well aware Bill - but Jones and Ogden and Pace had already established their excellence yearly while he has only done it once.

I think with regard to McKelvin's (and Schobel's and Kelsay's and Dockery's and Williams' and Butler's) contract, you have to realize they are inflated numbers wise by Not Likely To Be Earned (NLTBE) Incentives. They're a delightful way of bumping the cap next year when a person's bonuses get put back into the pool. So what if McKelvin has more of a ceiling than Mayo? That just means that 2-3 million difference is something that can be rebated next year into our cap. Haven't you noticed we've been in the top 5 or so in cap room despite the fact we've "overpaid" all these guys? That because when a Marcus Stroud rolls along we have the space to pick him up. Or when a Dockery gets 7/49, we can add some NLTBE incentives into his contract to pay for when Evans comes free. Or Crowell. Peters and his agent have not been participating in good faith. 2 years ago when he signed that deal, he couldn't go to any other team because he was an ERFA. The Bills acted in good faith and paid him according to him being a RT with the possibility that both sides knew he would switch.

That's not a problem - that's negotiating. The first person to call loses: Parker wants the Bills to cave so he looks great with his "other" holdout. There is no "ivory tower" or immaturity on the front office's part; the grown man that signed that contract and his agent have not even begun the negotiations that would justify breaking off communication!

Actually Bill, at the time he re-signed, he was tagged as a exclusive rights free agent, which he signed (1 year, 425k) and then replaced with a 5 year deal. If he didn't, he could have been a rfa the next year and an ufa the year after that...THIS year. I'm sure his agent's stance is that they were going to be locked up for 2 years anyway - why not make more money while doing so? In fact, the more I read about this, the more I think he's acting as if he is a free agent this year.

You're right about the owners liking parts of this system - which include the exorbitant fines and such that can occur. Look, both sides (players and management) enjoy the system, as players realize that they're not going to get 100% guaranteed contracts like Baseball or basketball, but 60% is darn close depending on the contract. Jason Peters and his agent are in the wrong here Bill. When other players have griped about their contract, at least they voiced their opinion. In the case of a guy like Schobel, he griped, he showed up, he got paid. If they give in to Peters' demands now without any discussions or a show of good faith on his end, what are we going to do when Mitchell declares he's underpaid? Or heavens forbid, Poszluszny? Brandon, Levy, Donahoe, Butler, whomever. You're the GM, you draw lines in the sand and cannot allow the kids to run the playground.

Per V-text.

A few quick points: 1 - Jeremy Shockey is going to an offense he already knew he was quite prolific in, as Payton was his OC in NY prior to moving on to Dallas and then NO. Payton already knows how to balance running an offense while also stroking the massive ego of his talented TE. 2 - The 2nd and 5th picks were already discussed, and as Kirwan mentioned on moving the chains regarding the Taylor and Shockey trades these moves had been pre-arranged; no one else wanted to enter the discussion because they were unsure how Shockey would react to being on their team and in their offense. In fact, the only other suitor had been the Dolphins, who discussed trading Taylor to the Gints prior to the Skins. I know the Bills front office is functionally retarded with a defensive back fetish that stands the course of time, but sometimes other teams make risky trades that we had nothing to do with. Just like we did with Stroud. But he's a broke down roid abuser though compared to Saint Shockey...

Oh and krazycat - good retort. I apologize for the dig - it is a message board of bills fans after all.

I've been a big fan of both West Coast Offenses and even got to add a little to our QB while coaching at a local HS. I've also had a ton of conversations with my alma mater's OC Matt Cavanaugh, who has been awesome at breaking down the heart of the WCO.

Being an ex player that has been a coach for almost a decade might tho.

Krazykat, I disagree with you completely on that post. Here is why: 1 - The offense we ran last year (and still run from a terminology and phrase standpoint) is not the Walsh West Coast, but the Zampese/Coryell style of West Coast offense. If you would like a primer on the differences and history of the name/misnaming look here - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...nside_football/ 2 - Just because we're still using some of the previous terminology, we can still add west coast principles to it. For example, the triangles. For that, read http://www.kffl.com/article/73501/488 "The West Coast offense uses triangle passing: The triangles refer to three imaginary sectors of the field, beyond the line of scrimmage, and the offense decides which area to attack. This includes a strong side (same side as tight end), weak side (side away from tight end) and middle. The strong and weak sides can switch before the ball is snapped, as an audible or motion often shifts them." See the following for more on that - http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html 3 - By standard pro set, what do you mean? Two backs with three wides? That's a solid formation, but what plays are you going to run out of that? What system is going to determine who does what? 4 - Hardy and Johnson won't need anything more than a traditional NFL caliber route running lesson to learn how to run the WCO routes. Look at TO, he's by far one of the best modern WCO receivers because he can run the slants and digs over the middle better than anyone. Evans can be the Rice to Hardy's Taylor. 5 - The Bengals ran a WCO flavored no huddle (which we later stole parts of for the K-Gun) and it worked because it used everything good in both offenses: timing and deep passing. Just because we'll use a ton of 3-5 step passes, does not mean the 7 and Shotgun 5's are out - in fact one would assume they'd become more effective. Now, your myopic history aside, I hope you can take from this a few things: -Turk Schonert, despite however you may feel about it, knows more about running and implementing an NFL offense unlike anyone else here, as he's actually been a QB in an NFL system. -Constantly posting to rain on the collective parades of people here should have gotten old to you by now.

The biggest thing about the offense Turk is bringing is that it will have two of the key ingredients of the Walsh West Coast philosophy - tying the plays to the steps of the QB and creating "triangles" on the field in order to give the QB three options of differing depths that are available to him.

I also think that Parcells also has gotten very far using a very, very conservative defense - something which guys like Levy (and now Jauron) have been lambasted for.

AKC, Thank you for the opportunity to discuss! First, I think you are correct with the UT/NT and I have no argument there. I think that our rotation is a little stronger than you think, especially with McCargo, Williams and Stroud eligible to play the NT given the play. I think that the 1 though is more inside the center than outside the guard, but that's apples and oranges and a point I don't feel is too important. With regard to the Jacksonville, I think the idea of offloading a guy that may not return to form for two picks that can inject youth into a superbowl contender outweighed seeing if Stroud could return to form. In our case, taking the risk for a proven (but already injured) veteran outweighed adding more youth to an already younger team. Now, do you feel that Johnson, McCargo, Williams and Stroud are enough as a whole (even if Stroud is not the world-beater he once was) to be a competent defensive line? Personally, I'm not looking for the best line in the NFL, but I think they (on paper) should at least be high teens level in run defense.