leh-nerd skin-erd

Tibs referenced lawsuits being filed in the post you replied to. He linked to a WaPo article referencing a short time later. There seems to be a voracious appetite to hash this out through the civil justice system. The commission will push forward because that’s what politicians do—give them the opportunity to grandstand, showboat and destroy the opposition through innuendo, leaks, unsubstantiated accusations and they’ll run with it. This should be dealt with in the criminal justice system where at least in theory, justice is blind.

The way to address traitorous scumbags is not through the civil justice system, it’s through the criminal courts. Let the police investigate, the prosecutors go to the grand jury, prosecute, allow the defense to respond and get it to a jury.

This is the really interesting thing about it. For all the criticism the left levies at Trump--some fair, some not---there is an alarming tendency by those people to look no further than the end of their nose on issues like this. It seems like you would need video evidence of Cuomo smothering patients with a COVID laced pillow before they speak out on this issue, all as his besties are screaming about how he lied to them, mislead and is complicit in this coverup. The odd part is that many of these folks are in the hunker down/mask up/speak in hushed tones crowd. They believe in full on compliance and the innate goodness of Dr Faucci et al. But hey--no turkey legs at grammies! That'll kill ya!

Of course. But they throw the chum in the water for a Th3 to get em roiled up.

100% comrade. I just look to the past to project what was likely to happen. But you stay in that Protests-are-kryptonite bubble and eat your puddin.

Absolutely---and likely, the typical government slow-walk would have occurred with respect to testing and vaccine development, with multiple redundant fingers in the pie and Joe outsourcing the presidential power to ruffle some private industry feathers to a government lifer.

Yes, and the appendage Remocrat senators who voted for impeachment get their nuts kicked in for a while as well. Nothing works in politics like division.

Your comments on Trump’s delivery is a complaint shared by many people, including many of his supporters. There were times it drove me crazy, including times when he was 100% on point on the hyper-political approach that many supposedly neutral mainstream media outlets took to coverage on his agenda. Still, there is adequate anecdotal evidence to know what Biden’s approach to pandemic management would have been. His initial concerns about appearing to target China with unreasonable xenophobic action likely would have seen continued unabated travel between the two countries. Based on the scientific models, that likely would have contributed to the spread. His support and approval of mass gatherings, demonstrations and riots may well have resulted in more supporters and antagonizers taking to the streets and contributing to the spread of the virus that has killed so many. His refusal to apply common sense to the governors and political that support his agenda and implore them to speak out and apply the same firm approach to virus management—using emergency powers to compel non-believers to comply with mandatory lockdowns and shutdowns—would have sent the message that the virus could not be spread by activities that the scientists had already told us were dangerous. There is little doubt he would have applied the full weight and power of the presidency to delivering a message similar to what we saw in NY. The bullet points would have been to comply with regulations, to hunker down and shelter in place, while support and approval for tens of thousands doing exactly the opposite would have continued. We would have seen confusing choices like we see in NY, where folks coming from some states are treated like pariahs yet absolutely no effort to address potential spreaders from Ct, NJ and Mass was made. In short, it would have likely been the same confusing sh*t show that we had as people faced with loss of income and financial devastation v loss of life would watched the news and science shouted from the rooftops while masses were encouraged to do just the opposite. Politics is a huge part of this crisis, and the Dems are as guilty of that as anyone else.

Nor did Obama, Biden and Clinton. That was part of the problem.

When the ship sinks it looks like it’s going to be you, the two Cuomo brothers and maybe Miley Cyrus left on board. Jeesh. Update: You, both Cuomo brothers, maybe Miley Cyrus and Daz28. He’ll be making sure the Cuomo bros luggage gets to their respective stateroom(s).

9er is all about dialogue and leadership, but develops intellectual alligator arms when it comes to acknowledgement of some very basic concepts that he claims to champion. Witness his comments on the NFL season as it compares to mass protests and riots in the streets. #samesame

I agree with the statement that I have hilighted in bold. That's why I asked the question about the leader of the opposition party--your guy. He's the one who failed to lead on the massive protests that the science tells us contributes to the spread of a highly contagious virus that was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. You praised his leadership, you spoke about his predecessor, and it was your contention that Joe might well have saved so so many more. He was the democrat candidate for the most powerful position on the planet. Millions listened to him, trusted his guidance and were compelled to vote for him as the savior of democracy. He's beyond reproach in this? That's convenient. In fact, the CDC let us down here as well. For all the talk about Trump and his perspective, Faucci should have been using his platform to be very, very direct: The protests were going to be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands, if not more. Perhaps Candidate Biden might have used his leverage--80m voters strong---to squeeze Dr Faucci into doing the right thing. Great point on the NFL season and its application to wide-scale protests and mass gatherings that as sure as you and i are speaking contributed on substantial level to the spread of this virus. The parallels are uncanny--what with one being a high-end corporate sports entertainment business with virtually unlimited resources to test, retest, quarantine, manage exposure, receive special dispensation from state, local and federal governments while supporting some of the most well-conditioned athletes in the world, with access to the best health care money can buy. When I looked at the protests in Minnesota, man, they clearly employed and followed the NFL Model. You can close your eyes and pretend it's not so--but the man you put in office is as responsible as anyone else for the death toll.

Which scientific model would Biden have followed? The one where hundreds of millions of citizens locked down, shut down and masked up, or the one where certain citizens were encouraged to gather by the tens of thousands in the mystical virus immunity zones?

Interesting question. I don't feel as if the American way of life is in peril, and ultimately change is inevitable. There are some very positive things that stem from these changes, and in some cases, the change impacts individuals negatively. Before proceeding here, what would you consider an example of an extremist on the right or left? I think most of us would agree that the people that stormed the Capitol were extremists, but what about the people that attended the rally and did not partake in violence, destruction or the breach? I think most would assume that those protestors who rioted and burned federal facilities and small businesses are extremists, but those peacefully protesting are not? Certainly there are people that feel as you have described, but it's important to know what you view as an extremist as a starting point.

The “impeachment managers” were the political equivalent of the manager outside the ring in a long WWE match. They were in a venue where they had the numbers, the power, the senior position, video of the horrific event at the Capitol and whole nut load of scared politicians willing to encourage violence when off in the heartland but not so cool when it comes to them. Even with all the cards, it failed. Political rhetoric is what it is these days. Everyone knows it. The country raged, people died, businesses burned out, parts of cities occupied and lawless— all supported and encouraged by political leaders for the last 5 years. The liberals went a long way toward creating what happened at the Capitol. When rioting, death and destruction goes mainstream for a noble cause, well, it’s the height of stupidity to assume other rioters and miscreants will model the same behavior. As for McConnell, he’s a career politician with one main goal— to stay in power. In this case, he’s Tom Brady— fiery, cantankerous, competitive but in the end, his staying power is based on avoiding the big hits. Trump is disposable, and let’s not pretend he was a Trump supporter early on. He got on board when it suited his agenda, got off when it made sense and feigned outrage when Pelosi and her crew attempted to unseat Trump for the first three years of his presidency. Trump was acquitted because it was a case based on emotion, appealing to folks drawn to emotion, and ended the way it always was going to. Now, they can rage at the senators who voted their conscience, call them complicit in the insurrection etc etc. As to witnesses, we’re talking about the allegation of an attempt to overthrow our government. There would be absolutely no reason not to calm witnesses in that setting with the fate of the free world in the balance. They didn’t want witnesses because it would be impossible to defend the actions over the past 4 years when confronted with their words. It would be exceptionally damaging to the dem case to hear from politicians and law enforcement about who knew what, who was briefed on intelligence and how the $&@8 they were caught off guard here. Witnesses were the death knell of a case built on “everyone knows what he meant”, and that’s only if you feel the trial was on life support when it stated. Finally, if you’re correct and “everyone knows it”, it should be decided in court, not is some fake court show trial.

I think you generate more “just go away” responses than anyone. I’m sorry to hear about your aunt. One of my friends lost her 90 year old father, and a friend told me today that’s friend of hers died at 58. Happened over 3 or 4 days. I don’t necessarily agree with the premise of the thread btw. The blame for COVID rests primarily with the Chinese govt, and our political system certainly did not lend itself to a quick recovery on a virus of this nature. It is fair, however, to hold Biden accountable for his actions and comments preCOVID (complaining about Xenophobia and the like, failing to speak out about the inherent dangers of massive protests throughout the summer etc), and he certainly benefited from the massive efforts by the Trump Admin and private enterprise in having vaccines at the ready when he took office. It sounds as if there is dysfunction in his delivery system, and he had plenty of time to plan his federal response in that regard.

Your overly emotional characterization that “...republicans are always against anything things popular” aside, the question itself is fair. The obvious response for me on your citation that 50% favor it is: perhaps. Hard to say given the ability of pollsters to manipulate data. As for why I personally don’t support it while my neighbor might? It’s a costly proposition, and from what I’ve read it’s less forgiveness and much more a reassignment of debt to a third party. That’s problematic IMO. It rewards the people who make poor financial decisions, and in many cases, also rewards the parents who participated in the poor decision to begin with. Again, the obligation doesn’t disappear, it simply gets shifted ultimately to many many folks who chose a wiser path. IMO, it’s classic victimization politics, where the person who receives valuable goods and services in exchange for a promise to pay is portrayed as the innocent victim set upon by, what in this case, Big Education? Never mind that community colleges, virtual learning, SUNY schools, military benefits, trade schools and the like have all been readily available for decades. It’s discriminatory and creates yet a new class of winners and losers in our country. The citizens that chose a wise path get boned, the citizens who funded college and higher Ed get boned, and lower socioeconomic groups where college was not an option get boned as well— while other citizens—ironically allegedly more intellectually advanced, benefit greatly and immediately. I don’t see where all stakeholders are held accountable for their complicity in the creation of the crisis. Many of the schools that preyed upon the unfortunate educated victim class benefited massively. High paying jobs, prestige, benefits and massive endowments with hundreds of billions of privately controlled dollars. Harvard maintains nearly $40,000,000,000 alone, Boston College nearly $4,000,000. The reality is that this money, if utilized collectively and for the greater good, could put a large dent in debt obligation you believe in excess of 50% of the population want to see transferred. Finally, in my case, my wife and I made the personal financial decision to assist and fund our children’s education. We availed ourselves of the readily available information about college costs, the trials and tribulations of student debt, and found a way to make it happen. We fought through the “I want to go to ——— at $50k per year because ———-“ and cautioned restraint and the need to meet ones obligations. This college debt thing isn’t new, the challenge simply seems to be that parents who lived it themselves often perpetuated the problem with their own kids. In the end, if Biden Inc is planning to create a pop pop popular “Debt be gone” magic potion, I would personally favor something that doesn’t benefit the perpetually entitled Ivy League crowd first, rather, those struggling to make ends meet with car payments, rent, housing or, ya know, food. But, that doesn’t compel often the wealthy and highly educated to vote for a dithering old gropey geezer. The plan was to sweeten the pot by promising goodies, giveaways with a really nice soup kitchen where the educated can feast in peace. In that regard, convincing people to become glorified wards of the state was a stroke of genius. You’ve become a favorite poster of mine. I agree with this pretty much across the board.

Sorry Doc, I could not disagree more. One of the major challenges with the impeachment process is that it is by definition political. McConnell’s response was as well. As I understand it, he could have allowed the impeachment to begin while Trump was in office and chose not to. He could have voted with the gang of Romney rhinos, but chose a calculated strategy of expressed indignation and outrage while voting against impeachment. Besides, the senate vote was what it was. All senators voted, Trump was acquitted, no smoking gun evidence was ever presented, and the dems folded like a cheap suit on the issue of witnesses testifying under oath. One would assume with the heart and soul of the nation on the line, and declarations of clear and convincing evidence (again) going nowhere fast (again), the spectacle died with a whimper as we all knew it would. Bi-partisan review lead to a clear acquittal. You are correct on the loss. However, I’d add Trump, the Chinese government, death and pandemic, the failed Russia hoax, the first nonsensical impeachment and a desire for a return to status quo politics all conspired to put the new old geez in the WH. That student loan debt promise played a huge part as well.

No apology necessary. I appreciated your candor, sincerity and willingness to attempt to educate me on the subject. My feedback was sent in the spirit of mutual enlightenment. My phone doesn’t have an auto-incorrect feature, but technology can be a fickle mistress indeed. Perhaps there is an app for that. I believe we can move on. There was that, but I was playing the long game.

Then let’s get to the courts where this can be addressed, witnesses and be called, timelines established, and the actions of all players considered. We can agree on this, yes? This sort of deep dive into the mundane is what would make you such a formidable foe on Jeopardy. Of course, you would want to clean up your understanding of “your” and “you’re” in case one of the categories is “Confounding Contractions Covered in 3rd Grade”. It may help to remember this old saying, also from the Latin: Sine scientia ars nihil est. Loosely translated, I’m told it means “Without knowledge, skill is nothing.” Stay humble.

Ah, well, in that case, thank you for your service.

Yes, most partisan impeachment(s) in the history of the country, and both failed in/at the senate because of it. Are we arguing?

Perspective is a strange thing. Trump, a guy folks have criticized as bombastic, ignorant, shoot from the hip and a say anything guy, complains loudly and bitterly about a stolen election. The Dems in power— the leaders of the liberal crowd complained loudly and bitterly of an illegitimate presidency set up by the Rooskies in 2016, using at time far harsher rhetoric to inspire their supporters. The Dems lost both times they impeached, and the one time they set the power of the govt out to crush some ties. As so often happens with Trump, the argument seems to be that suddenly Trump is so keenly brilliant and cunning, that he conspires with fringe elements to storm the freaking Capitol, using code words like “peaceful” and leaving no apparent direct evidence of his involvement. Then, in a move you really could only write in a Hollywood script, he’s taken to task not in a court of law for the OBVIOUS call to storm the Capitol (as claimed by Dems), they decide to press the issue in a largely symbolic gesture that ultimately means..nothing. The story now seems to be that politics only came in to okay during the vote, and that the senators who voted to acquit are co-conspirators a d also wanted the Capitol breached. It’s preposterous. History will show that in two clearly partisan attempts to suppress the votes of millions of non-dem voters, with virtually all the cards in their hand, they failed. History will show that I the multi-year Mueller inv, with incredible power, and unlimited power and very few restrictions, they failed. I know you consider yourself an independent distrust of both parties, and I respect that. I can understand hated of Trump but allowing the party in power to destroy by innuendo is not the answer and assures only more of the same. I can understand wanting Trump out. I’ll say again what I said to some of my frenemies here— if there is evidence of Trump conspiring, aiding or abetting the terrorists who stormed the Capitol, handle it in the court of law away from cameras, politicians then hallowed halls of Congress where back room deals and screwing the public is the soup du jour. Prosecution. Defense. Witnesses. Juries. This was an explosion in the freak show at a circus, for the second time.

The riots that started this issue occurred less than 45 days ago. The matter was “investigated”, proceeded through the house and senate, sidestepping questions of constitutionality, the absence of the Chief Justice of the SC, does not follow the processes associated with our criminal court system, and the Dems control the house, senate and executive branch. Just prior to the acquittal a hubbub and stir is created about witnesses—call em, don’t call em, if you call yours we’ll call a hundred!— like a middle school mock trial. But sure, the acquittal, long a forgone conclusion, is THE bad politics. 🤣 0-2 for obvious reasons.

That’s a lot of words for “acquitted”.