leh-nerd skin-erd

Right. But I understand the dem operatives (at least on some level). What I don’t understand is a self-described independent like Oldy sitting back and watching Rusky-gate and Kavanaugh is a serial rapist and supporting that. I could write off the Ukrainian controversy, while impeachment was extreme and silly, sometimes you inadvertently expose your throat to the enemy. As an independent, I’d think seeing Biden brag about shaking down the Ukes and getting nose deep in their process would point to the absurdity of impeaching Trump on whatever he supposedly did, but Trump brings out strong feelings amongst people and that colors how they view the world. On the part about the dem strategy working, I’ve said that myself a number of times. The Trump “stop the steal” process was, at worst on his part, politics as usual these days. Suddenly though, as if by magic, any controversy regarding election security and voting is outrageous! The Dems feasted on Covid, Ukraine and Russia, up to and including allegations of treason, but the so-called independents clutch at their pearls over “our process is broken and the election was stolen”. Whatevs.

In this case, you, but I understand you believe that you’re only doing it because someone else is to started it. 😳 In the larger picture, every politician and major media outlet in the country made it political. Trump. Pelosi. Cruz. Harris. Biden. Worst, probably was your infallible Dr Fauci who could have been much, much stronger in his role. From my perspective, it’s really quite simple. When the pandemic first started, there was confusion, distrust, and the government across the board—federal and state—was unprepared as is pretty much par for the course. Plenty of blame to go around there. I gave virtually everyone in leadership a pass when it started, including both Trump and, because I’m a NYS resident, Cuomo. Who wants to be the person in a leadership position responsible for: A. An unknown virus with the potential to cause mass death; B. The decision to decimate a roaring economy, cause people to lose their income, businesses to shutter and be wrong (your political enemies pounce, the average Joe thinks you screwed up, and the economy is screwed) or right (you’re still THE guy who made the decision that resulted in devastation of the economy; C. Who can you really trust? In the calm light of day, Trump pulled the trigger and shut the economy down. For the vast majority of the career politicians and workers in state or federal system, salary and benefits remained intact. On the really important issue of things like food, ability to pay the mortgage and the like, it was business as usual. For a private enterprise guy, the implications were dire and he knew it. Once into the two week to stop the spread and moving forward thereafter, the dem leadership took every opportunity to politicize virtually everything. They trash talked his approach. They encouraged the spread of the virus by supporting and encouraging mass demonstrations in cities across the country (aided by your boy Fauci, to weak or feckles to stand up and use hiss platform to scream about the danger of mass gatherings), and of course trash talking the vax just in case Trump prevailed in the election. Where the heck was the togetherness you yearn for then? Bottom line here is that if folks like you are willing to support the opposition party running McCarthyesque investigations gobbling up 3 years of an administrations time, walking away with nothing on the target of the investigation after promising “TREASON!”, one should not be surprised that even death and disease will ultimately be in play in the political world. Now, though, now you seem to want us all together singing campfire songs. I see that as unlikely.

He’s a complicated guy. 🙄

Donald Trump was President in the spring of 2020. Are you having a Biden moment? In retrospect, though, you inadvertently make a good point— it seems clear Trump should have relieved your science guy from his post. There is a marked difference between suggesting the general public “did not need to wear masks” and “Sorry folks, you have to sacrifice because there is a shortage of masks but here are options to stay as safe as possible”. Maybe this is the point where people started to realize they needed to think of themselves first. To his credit he seems completely unfazed by it all. I have to say your commitment to him is unshakable.

Devastating takedown. When he brings up the point about Fauci misleading people about the masks and sending them to die, it sort of dove tails back into the theory that death and suffering were good for the Dems and establishment players in 2019. I’ll be interested in @oldmanfan’s take on this.

I feel like I win the occasional internet argument but this much is certain, my wife is undefeated in shaming me into yard work or putting the patio furniture away in a timely fashion over the last 36 years. More on this later. You’re on to something here.

I guess I misunderstood your earlier post. I read “What exactly should he do” and he told people, they don’t listen (my words, not yours) as a giant shoulder shrug. You generally don’t strike me as a shoulder shrug guy. You’ve absolutely been vocal about your thoughts and beliefs on this subject, and a few of your responses might be considered by some to be extreme. I recognize that those times might have been due to frustration, or emotional investment due to your life’s work, but I don’t sense that same passion with Biden. He’s the Commander-in-Chief, and beyond the occasional “Grandpa knows best” appearance under tightly controlled circumstances he’s AWOL while the infection rages. Honestly, I’d have thought you would call for his resignation. On the flip side, it’s clear you’re passionate about the country and your fellow citizens, so I would have been stunned if you did not express outrage at his handling of Afghanistan. He had so many options to pursue and it appears he chose the one specifically that would result in maximum death, injury and chaos. It’s almost like he wants the problems there so at some future point, the US can intervene again.

This is a softball question: 1. Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages. The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory. It stinks of yet just another revenue grab. Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions. Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date. This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass. 2. Address the public in a nationally televised speech. Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved. 3. Encourage Fauci to resign. He’s been a disaster. 4. Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake. He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people. He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility. This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that? He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?

Seriously, of course we have no idea what would have happened under a Clinton presidency, but let’s breathe a sigh of relief that DJT was the 45th when this was unleashed. Given how the virus has raged under Biden and Harris when the vax was literally placed in their hands, the death count in ‘21, and where we are today we would likely be in the tens of millions under their leadership. All they truly needed to do was lead. They had months to deal with the infrastructure, delivery system, message points, and to plan for outreach to those individuals likely pre-inclined to be distrustful of such things.

What is the obvious answer?

“DR SUNDANCER: OXY CODONE ON LINE 2, OXY CODONE ON LINE 2! PICK UP PLEASE.”

So just to be clear, my point in the initial conversation with Oldie was that this latest iteration of people not trusting government blindly, and lining up like a Stepford wife for the jab is a natural and predictable byproduct of life. While certainly there are people in this category, for most It has nothing to do with people not giving a #$&$ about their family and the neighbor down the street. You points, as usual, are well laid out and always interesting to read.

#truth

It also brings out the douchish in some people. In honor of your internet namesake, I forgive you.

Uncle Eddie is apparently the Twitter/FB of food service providers in Fla. For the life of me, I don’t understand why a business carves this notch out of their consumer base, but such is life these days.

We are who we are.

Of course they care, you're too close to this sometimes and you lose perspective. Like it or not, everything that went before factors into the way folks look at the virus and vaccine. Off the top of my head: Most folks generally don't trust politicians and the process, and the last few years have been offered a plethora of reasons to absolutely, categorically and fundamentally run the opposite way that politicians point you in. That is irrespective of party affiliation. We had lockdowns for most, to the point that the police were involved, ugliness ensued, and businesses were shuttered. Yet, mass gatherings and in some cases, riots, were encouraged and tolerated. Interestingly, the folks involved in the protest often hit the demographic of many vax hesitant people we talk about today, and presumably a large part voted for the guy in office today. More interesting, perhaps, in 2020 the guy in office and his partner were among prominent politicians smacktalking the vax they are being shamed for not taking now. We had more outrage over that old geez who conked his noggin on the cement after he grabbed at that officer's groin then we did the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions?) of people spreading the virus near and far. We had prominent politicians responsible for bringing the hammer down on non-compliant citizens openly flouting the rules and guidance coming directly from the top. The hypocrisy was, and often is, stunning. Fauci, once the face of the 'save the nation' crowd has revealed himself to be a boob, with more waffles than the local IHOP. The lack of transparency on the origins of the virus, the involvement of the US in the facility where it all apparently started, the timing of the virus release to coincide with our election cycle, and the very strange lack of any major mainstream coverage or political investigation in who the %$#@ allowed the vid to escape the lab seems at face value very odd. The "mandate" has been a clusterf^ck, with Biden trying to thread the needle between looking strong, hammering the vax, and not upsetting a large portion of his base. If the world and country is in peril, he should ask Dr Jill for the jar she keeps his nuts in and do something bold. Instead, we get 'meh'. People pay attention and smell b*ll sh*t and react accordingly. There are many, many reasons people lack trust in the people telling them what they need to do. That has nothing to do with wanting to infect grannie, or the neighbor down the street, or anything else. I think virtually any time you get "Hey, we're the government just trust us!" you're going to get push back from a large segment of the population. Regardless of how you, individually as a scientist feel, most of the key players are categorized as 'government' fairly or not.

I think sometimes it's about the individual, sometimes it's about society. I think it's that way in life, generally. Sometimes we help our neighbor, the one who owns the local hardware store, sometimes we pop over to the Home Depot to get rock bottom prices without a second thought. Sometimes we support higher taxes on the other guy while we benefit from the lower tax rate, or vice versa. Sometimes we support the other guy's president, sometimes the other guy cooks up a McCarthy-esque Russian conspiracy grift to attempt to destroy yours. As far as my last paragraph, you're swinging at the wrong target. I'm vaxed and strongly encouraged my vax-resistant son to get the jab. I'm still not sure that was the right call. All I am saying is it is perfectly normal, 100% understandable and an indisputable fact that young people are amazingly consistent. Your perspective is they should take one for the team, that they should disregard the Moderna problem and just jump to another vax. People are inquisitive by nature...7 months after touting Moderna as the super cure wonder drug, suddenly the gov says "Ah, just do Pfizer..." and you don't think the natural question for a person likely convinced he doesn't need any vaccine to begin with is "What happens when they find out the Pfizer shot is dangerous in 6 months?". 7 out of a million ain't bad odds, but not as good as 0 out of a million if they will generally tolerate COVID with low risk of death. I think you still miss the larger point, so I'll mention it and ask you one more time: Setting aside your indignation that some folks are distrustful of what the CDC, Faucci and the rest say, would you not acknowledge that it is true that the overwhelmingly vast majority of young people tolerate exposure to COVID and subsequent infection very well? My son uses an e-cigarette. I have told him 538 times that this may be one of the most foolish things he can do, that he's inhaling chemicals into his lungs, and that the long term effects are lunknown but potentially catastrophic. I'm 100% accurate on this count, I'm not a medical professional and he trusts me. I'm surely going to have to have this dialogue another 538 times before it sinks in. Given our relationship and his response to my feedback, what's the relative likelihood he will listen to the CDC and the Fauch when--whether you choose to acknowledge it or not---the guidance has been hypocritical, confusing and has evolved or changed multiple times. To boot, the uneasy alliance in this gain of function research, inconsistencies on how or why this COVID crisis started, and the massive amount of money changing hands here is a recipe for disaster from a trust perspective. Sure, you with your training at age 60+ can sagely tell him "But that's just science and science is hard..." but he's probably not going to listen you either. One thing though--he does not think in any way, shape or form that he's going to be responsible for your death from COVID, he's simply not wired that way. The same kid would likely sacrifice life and limb to drag you out of your Porsche 911 if you had an accident and your car started on fire. It's not just a matter of "better spokesmen", based on what we now know, Fauci would be the villain in just about every Hollywood thriller involving contagions and mass death. You're starting to make me nervous on the organ donation thing. @B-Man, @SoCal Deek, @Bidens_basement and @Sundancer if something should happen to me and my kidney's, pancreas, and liver* are missing from my body, please let the police know I did not voluntarily part with them and they should check Oldies basement for hidden rooms. And, I've only included Sunny in case you other three mutts are in on the game. *If you're harvesting the man parts, word to the wise- you should bring an extra large vessel to transport. McCarthyism. Russia gate. The Kavanaugh nomination. Pre-1960s deep south America.

Ah--you nailed it! "....makes sense to me..." That's my point. On the individual level, it's all about what "makes sense to me". Your perspective on politely telling the unclean "good bye" is what it is. From my perspective, it's amazing how emotion and reasoning can swing the pendulum. Back a few years when Obamacare was the rage, one of the hot button issues was "pre-existing conditions". Politicians raged about it, citizens clamored for pre-existing conditions to be covered, and next thing you know, we've collectively saved, among others, the person capable to purchasing health insurance but who(m) had other priorities for their money and enver thought they would need it. Now, a few short years later, we have a vaccine that by definition is voluntary, a leadership group that refused to mandate for all and instead chose the death by paper-cut route, segregating the masses into subcategories by the type of work they do, and the same folks bemoaning pre-existing conditions are all for chucking the sick into the sewer--even though the sick were guaran-damn-teed coverage under the ACA. What a world.

Big picture, maybe or if you prefer, sure. On an individual level, the risk-reward analysis usually boils down to “What’s in it for me?”. If I was a younger man, I cannot say with certainty that I would not consider the relative risk of getting COVID, the significant likelihood of a mild case/complete recovery and/or being asymptomatic, the relative risk of developing a heart condition from a vaccine (or dying from the virus) and simply deciding “F it, I’ll get vaxxed because some old guy told me I should.”. Hell, I did it as an oldster. When I factor in all the noise that has gone along with the virus and the vax, the latest “Moderna may not be all we thought it was—sorry!” the complicated and often hypocritical evolution of pandemic management and the death and suffering we see now amongst the Vaxxed, I’d be even less inclined to trust without question and take my chances, which we probably both agree are heavily in my favor either way.

This topic always brings me back to the beginning. The under 30 crowd is generally at very low risk to begin with. A vaccine is developed, marketed at lightning speed, and the pitch is the vaccine(s) are safe, secure and no need to look further. Turns out for some, healthy as a horse to begin with, they roll the bones and end up at a Moderna-vax facility, take the jab, and it turns out to be a bad choice. Had they rolled the bones on a different day, or lived in a different city, they go to a Pfizer-vax facility and as of today, it appears safe(r). Of course—stay tuned. I get the very low risk angle, but why accept the risk at all? Aren’t they always out there, the deaths of those without unhealthy behavior? I think that’s already a thing.

Well, to be a bit more accurate, I commented on the subject raised by the OP, specifically commented on the actions of the Church, and asked him a question related to the subject he raised. As to widening the scope of the post, perhaps I did. I’m perpetually amazed as to how history repeats itself, and wondered specifically what Tibs thought about this latest crop of abusers and the institution(s) where the abuse takes place. I’ll discontinue that discussion. As for letting “the RC off the hook”, I made no such suggestion and in fact my posts signal quite the opposite. Your comments in this post follow your original query “Other people do it so it’s not so bad?” which also misrepresented what I said. It’s obvious that this is a hot button issue for you, up to and including a link for me to potentially uncover secrets I was previously unaware of. Of course this presumes I haven’t done this previously, or that I was unaware of the existence of this type of material, or that perhaps I fell asleep on the side of a mountain in the Catskills and have been in a blissful slumber for the last 30 years. None of that is accurate, but thanks for sharing. I’ll move on, but to be 100% crystal clear, the actions of priests guilty of sexual abuse against anyone, at any time current or past, is/was a crime that should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and the law is generally insufficient to address the damage done by these people. The actions of the Church hierarchy, actively or passively involved in the abuse, manipulating data, covering up abuse, relocating abusers to work in/around other families is/was criminal and should be/have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. At the end of the day, faith and prayer and the decent people within the Church has provided comfort to billions of people across the world since the time of Christ, and the systemic abuse scandal is a stain and blight on everything good that the Church has ever done. It’s an absolute and utter disgrace. Oops—I went off topic again. We are supposed to be discussing “Clergy = Conservatives”.

Sorry Reddog, I have to disagree with you here. The byproduct of sexual assault by a public/private school employee results in suspension and jail time today, in 2021. Historically that has not been the case, at least not in large enough numbers to compare to what we see today. The sad reality is this likely has alway been a problem and like the issue with the church, and the Boy Scouts, and USA gymnastics people (fellow faculty, administrators and quite obviously other students) knew or had suspicions that went unreported. The bigger picture seems to be that the number of cases is massive, underreported and likely systemic. I heard one time from a former Disney employee that Disneyworld is a predator playground, but the fallout is carefully controlled by the corporation, police and media because of the harm it would do to the community. Again, there are many good and dedicated educators in the country, but is there training and screening to knock out folks with the tendency to abuse? I’d think this would be a very good subject for some intrepid and ethical journalist to cover, but I’d bet it would be unpopular with lots of people to have that light shines on them. Finally, I grew up in and around the Catholic Church, was an altar boy, my first job was with our local parish. The priests I encountered were good human beings and to my knowledge never were accused of wrongdoing. It is heartbreaking to think of how badly the church bungled this issue and every bit of media scrutiny and push for accountability is warranted.

Part of the challenge for you JaCrispX is you’re asking questions about things that were said previously and that you may have believed to be accurate. That’s frowned upon, scientifically speaking.

@Sundancer says that Sweden is the new Venezuela.