Matt in KC

Am I losing my mind or are you? If we traded for Turner, you'd be happy with drafting 3 LBs, 2 more RBs and 2 DBs? Or are you finding a way to tell N.Y. Orangeman he's lost his mind and I'm too thick to catch it?

Yes, Schobel often fell back into coverage (1-3 times per game) in the zone blitz and did quite well... for a defensive end. Denney would occasionally drop back, but Kelsay never did. I can't imagine they'd consider playing Schobel in another position after his trip to the Pro Bowl. I would ignore the recent player weight updates. If they were thinking of something like this, Denney would be the logical DE to ask to play LB.

If you look at the begining of my post, I say "My positions and reasons are below, in the order I think they are important and likely to be selected." If you count, you'll see that I agree with you that TE, WR and QB are not the most likely to be drafted with our eight selections, but are the next most pressing needs. (I list them after LB, RB, CB, LB, C/OG, DE, FB/RB and S). As I mentioned, I'd like to start grooming another DE for depth since Schobel/Denney/Kelsay play regularly, and because I don't think Hargrove is more than a ST player and stop gap DE. If HargroveforMVP=Anthony Hargrove, then go prove me wrong! Yes, with 3-4 year contracts the norm in the NFL, you have to (re)build 1/4 to 1/3 of your team in an average year. We have 8 draft picks and I listed 11 positions where I think we could use help. I listed DE so high on this list because we could still use a better pass rush and it seems impossible to find affordable DE talent in free agency. Maybe we should start growing another one. The positions listed lower are more easily be found in FA IMO.

I would love to see another receiver on the roster, but I think Price's contract, plus Marv's comments about "being happy with who we have" mean this position probably waits until next year. If Willis is gone, I suspect we take Lynch with our 1st round pick. I don't think it's easy to trade down so we might grab someone unexpected, but WR would definitely be a "shocker."

Boy, I sure hope so. With our WR speed and JP's arm it really could be exciting. ...but we'll never find out if we can't provide pass protection. Reed seems to be doing a good job as our possession reciever, consistently coming back to JP when he feels pressure. I liked everything but Price's lack of blocking last year...until I looked at his stats. Price's YpC is bad-possession-reciever-like and I suspect this is his last year on the team in a stopgap role. (Reed 12.1, Price 8.2) Actually, Clumpy's page says Price signed through 2009, so who knows. I could have sworn he signed a two year deal. Why do you call Price our possession reciever and not Reed? I still think a first day pick is going to be a CB, but not because I think Yobouty can't play. We often have three CBs on the field at once, they take awhile to develop, and good ones are not available for cheap. You have to draft them. I suspect we keep the pipeline full with a 3rd round CB, or a 4th rounder if we see someone else we can't pass up in the 3rd. Given how well Clements played in the second half of 2006, we need a lot of things to go right on defense for us to not feel a significant drop-off this year. That's not to say we've made any bad choices, just that we lost a good player.

Actually, a more direct analogy is removing JP's best (TD?) or worst (INT?) pass from each game then comparing his year end passer rating to other quarterbacks. I'd bet he'd be one of the best (or worst) quarterbacks in the league.

The definition of depth for the O-Line is a player on the roster who does not play unless someone gets hurt, like Reyes. This is Whittle's only year under contract, and yes, Walker and Dockery will likely start this year. You are right that Pennington will again likely become depth at OT with some valuable playing experience, but that doesn't help us at guard or center. If Walker does move to guard, then yes, that frees up Preston, though I'm weary of having him back up all of the interior line positions, especially since he looked like the weak link on the line last year, and doesn't seem to be improving any more. I'd love to see him step up and conclusively earn the RG job (then get extended another couple years), but don't expect this to happpen.

We all know we need LB, RB, CB... (or at least most posters here do, though some claim CB is not a clear need). But this is "only" three positions, and we now have four first day picks in the draft. What is the other position you think we will or should take on day one, and what are the positions filled with our four second-day picks? My positions and reasons are below, in the order I think they are important and likely to be selected. Another Linebacker - I think this is our remaining first day pick. We lost both Spikes and Fletcher, and Stamer and Crowell are returning from injury. Haggan has looked (just) okay in pre-season, but is really more a special teams player than a LB we want in the game. I realise we took care of one of our vacancies (really we did) by making Wire a LB, but I think we're still very thin at this position even if we do get Patrick Willis in the first round. Does DiGiorgio make the team? (Does the practice squad count as "making the team?") 2007 is the last year under contract for Stamer and Haggan and I think it's very doubtful both will return next year. Back-up/future Guard and/or Center - Preston is also our backup Center? In preseason the last couple years, Esposito snapped the ball with the second team in front of Preston. Esposito who? Exactly.... We lost both Gandy and Reyes this offseason. This is the last year under contract for Whittle and next year is the last for Preston, Fowler and Merz (time flies, doesn't it?). It is time to start grooming someone else and keep the "pipeline" full. Signing Dockery did not help our depth at guard, just our starting lineup. Defensive End - Yes, I like Hargrove as a personality, but haven't really seen anything to make me think he can compete at this level. Given that Schobel, Kelsay and Denney would all line up on passing downs the last couple years, I'm not thrilled with our depth here. I think we keep 9 D-Linemen on the roster, but contray to popular thought, 5 of them are DE's (one is our the player we draft). I suspect DE will get the extra player because Denney or Hargove could line up as a DT in the rotation. I don't think any of our DTs could play on the end if needed. Backup RB / FB - I am glad Shelton is gone; he plugged more wholes in front of McGahee the last two years than he opened. If we are going to use a fullback at all this year, it would be nice to draft someone with an "up-side" instead of using a vet like Ricard. I like Thomas and Williams, but they can't be expected to help us next year and beyond. Cieslak did fill in at FB last year because he was the best of a few very bad choices. (Also, this is Cieslak's last year under contract.) I haven't seen Jackson play, but don't put any weight in NFLE stats. (Wasn't Ken Simonton? the same kind of NFLE wonder?) I'd be thrilled if we do have a diamond in the rough, but assume Levy's comments about him are mainly to help us seem less desperate for contract negotiations with others. Backup Safety - Bowen gone; Leonard is backing up both spots and Wire is now a LB. We are one bad play from having Simpson and Leonard being our safeties covering the deep part of the field (with a rookie MLB?) and no one backing them up, except Wire, who I'm sure will continue to be a team player and drop 15 pounds before the next game. And yes, for anyone who is superstitious, I was knocking on my wood desk with my left hand as I typed with my right hand. Tight End - This is Cieslak and Nufeld's last year under contract and we still haven't seen Everett ("paging Kevin Everett... please report to the playing field as soon as possible...."). I'm happy with Royal for one of our TE positions, but remain depressed about our other players. If we don't take one this year, this position could be a first-day selection next year. Wide Reciever - I don't think we're likely to take one this year, but think we need to keep the pressure of competition on our current players. George Wilson, Chris Denney and a couple ("camp fodder") FA's could provide this pressure. I want to see even more of Roscoe this year. If JP has a little more time, I think he could get enough separation to kill opposing secondaries. Quarterback - Holcolm is gone, which is fine with me. I think he's a fine backup QB, but I take this as a sign that we're continuing to shift the playbook to JP's strengths and would rather not pay his salary or remember questioning if JP would start. I think Nall will be our backup this year, and there is little reason to use a draft pick on a 3rd QB unless we want to take on a project and think the pick is a better gamble than the other players left in the 7th round.

Anyone know what happened to Bowen? I never heard anything about why he was released. I thought he was playing well well (in preseason) when he got hurt, and we do really need another (back up / special teams) safety. I don't think they'll sign him again since they just released him, but they may well find this year's version in another player....

For comparison sake: McGahee ran 259 times for 990, a 3.8 average. That's 3.6 when you remove his top run (57 yards). Tomlinson: 348 for 1815 yards. 5.2 --> 5.0 yds/carry when removing top run (85 yards). Reggie Bush: 155 for 565 yards. 3.6 --> 3.55 yds/carry when removing top run (18 yards). Frank Gore: 312 for 1695 yards. 5.4 --> 5.2 yds/carry when removing top run (72 yards). I think he might have taken out the top run from each game. I wonder what a good average is for a season when you remove your top run each game...(???)

The obvious reason is that giving up your 2nd means you can grab another player with your first round selection and land a player (LB maybe?) who can start this year. Your trade means the first and second round picks yield a single player. It looks like we still have money and need players, so I'd pay the higher salary to get Turner plus another player. (I'm assuming Turner + #12 > #6, but if I'm wrong it strengthens my case.)

I favor trading our 2nd rounder to swapping 1st round picks and don't think the price is too high. I understand the desire to add new blood to the team by keeping the same number of day one picks, but I think we really do need new playmakers. We should keep the 12th pick to get a playmaker like Willis (who is my prediction for our first pick). Of course it's possible we'll get stranded with all of the impact players taken by our pick, or "only" having Peterson drop to us.... We do have the 43rd pick in the draft... why just not trade that? I can't think of any RB likely to be available then who has more promise than Turner. While I understand the desire to "buy" a player for the lowest possible price, we really DO need to add someone who can consistently gain yards his first year with the team. There is value in not gambling a RB will be there on draft day. I'd even be comfortable throwing in a second day pick next year, since we likely won't have as many holes on the team. Of course I also can't figure out why WR's like Wes Welker can get a 2nd and 7th in a trade but RB's never seem to...

Thanks for doing the tally. I'm really surprised the vote was so close. Also, he may have been standing, but I think 1billsfan was dead after 2 rounds.

I actually didn't catch that. So, it's more a case of drunk driving than carjacking.... I liked your original question, firstngoal, and was surprised to see how close the vote was. Unfortunately, it looks like we're off-roading and will not likely get back to the vote. I guess it is the standard debate: do you draft for talent, or to fill a need. This is why the question is interesting to me. I think LB is a bigger need for us, but Peterson's talent is clearly higher. I think we should grab Peterson if they're both available because RB is also a big position of need and I'm surprised nearly half of the posters in this thread disagree.

This thread is about Willis versus Peterson. Kindly take the Lynch conversation elsewhere. Thanks you. Willis 9 / Peterson 14 / Other nonsense not dealing with this hypothetical 9

If both are there, I would take Peterson. So anyone know the current vote? Willis 9 / Peterson 13 / Other nonsense not dealing with this hypothetical 8?

This IS fun. I had to hit "Refresh" to see if you had changed your post yet....

Wow... Turner comments that really do warrant a new thread. Thanks for the info, PIZ! I've gone from thinking we should try to get him for less than our #2, to being happy giving our #2 pick, and a second day pick next year to land him. I hope we pursue him aggressively but keep our #1. We could always trade him on draft day if Peterson is still available by some miracle.

With his more accurate throws and a few effective scrambles, I think you have to add JP to the list.

I know it was a statement of the obvious, but when I said they should wait for Tenessee to sign MT to weaken Chris Brown's bargaining position I was trying to be clear this is NOT what I think they should do. Tipster suggested we might sign Brown. I was saying that signing Brown before Tenessee signs MT would be the worst of both worlds (wrong guy and would cost more). Did you only read my second sentence?

If so, they should wait for Tenessee to sign MT then and weaken Chris Brown's bargaining position. I would much rather land Turner than Brown.

Certainly a player is less interested in "future consideration" than another team (or GM). We used to hear about "a player to be named later" etc. frequently it seemed, but not recently. I think GMs still give each other "future consideration" more often than we know. They just stopped telling the media about it. I was musing to myself what would happen if SD knew the Bills were offering better pick(s) than Tenessee (less than the 1st and 3rd) and MT's agent had a better contract offer from Tenessee. Neither would want to approve the deal....

On the carpet, in the fetal position. (I'm not sure if this is on an NFL field or at home btw.)

How could I have forgotten the 3. Profit? (It's a fundemental part of the business plan...) This is very close to what I think position-wise if they do not get another player for the lines. I think DE could be a surprise pick. I like Hargrove's enthusiasm, but think we need someone else to come in if Denney, Kelsay or Schobel get injured. On pass plays last year, all three would often line up. If not, Powell might make the team this year.

1. (12) Patrick Willis (LB) 2. (43) Brian Leonard (RB) ??? 3a. CB 3b. C/OG? 4. LB? or DE? 6. S? 7. FB? or QB? or TE?