Pitta

No, my point is simply that you can't sufficiently educate yourselves on the inner workings of Mike Vick's mind to see if he has changed as a person. But you are still only hearing what you want to hear, putting words in my mouth, and missing the entire point of my posts that I've stated very, very clearly numerous times. I think you're missing the point completely. Remorse is a human emotion, there is no way you could ever understand how Vick feels about the situation based on your opinions of him. I am fine with your opinion on the Vick situation. I am not fine with anyone forming opinions on what is going on in Vick's brain at the moment. That's foolishness. As much as you want to, you're not going to get me into an argument over whether or not Vick should be reinstated. I have no opinion on the subject, so stop trying to pull me into that. I understand changing the course of argument is good for winning debates, but it's terrible for intelligent conversation. This is the last time I'm clarifying it. If you don't get it yet, you are a true moron.

No, I don't think it was simply a terrible mistake, but it was a terrible mistake nonetheless, was it not? Don't turn this into something it's not. Do you really want to argue semantics? Are you really going to try to tell me that Vick's actions were not the very definition of a life mistake that he would immediately take back if he could? And where did I say simply? Come on guy, keep your emotions out of this. I only take issue with the idea that Vick "hasn't changed a bit." I think that's a moronic statement and absolutely foolish to say. People's outlook on life can change after reading a good book, and Vick hasn't changed after going to prison and losing almost everything he had? Please.

No. A character judgment is very different from judgment of one's ability to hold political office. The way our constitution was drawn up, We all (constitutionally, not realistically) have the ability to be president. We have information available at our fingertips to educate ourselves on what would be the best way to run our country, and most importantly we have the right to vote for our president. Everyone who is worth a dime should be educated on the inner workings of their government and have enough knowledge to judge our nation's leaders. That is our duty as a citizen. Your vote on Vick's eligibility in the NFL, however, would only count on a WGR website poll. This matter is not up to public opinion. It's up to a wishy-washy commissioner that is currently treating this matter like a circus. The NFL is a business, the United States is a nation-state full of over 300 million people that depend on their leaders. The NFL can survive and even thrive with an idiot playing back-up quarterback as long as it sells tickets, boosts ratings, and doesn't cause significant PR issues. I could go on?

You're completely missing my point. I don't take issue with people who have your opinion. I even clarified and [i thought that I] idiot-proofed that statement by saying it was all his fault. And even though I've always been a Vick fan and I would love to see him play again and excel, I would not be surprised or upset if he was banned from the NFL for life. I just think the way he's being treated right now is abusive and only for the benefit of the NFL disguised as a second chance. It's creating months of publicity, mystery, and above all else an annoyance and distraction for whatever team signs him. Let him in unconditionally or not at all. These months of speculation are not going to make Vick a better person. He's received much worse punishment already and this is just a stupid joke. I have been very impressed with Goodell thus far, but I think he's being a bit of a coward, to be honest.

You're arguing semantics here. It was a mistake. Mistakes can still be purposeful and systematic. and many, many mistakes = a big terrible mistake. It's not like he said it was an accident.

No, I think you misunderstand. I don't think he should ever play another down in the NFL. Too high risk.

How many here are for like GOD said, turning the other cheek and forgiving one another. When will the past be the past?

I'm not worried about that, counter moves can be taught. You can't teach explosive speed. The kid is following Ray Lewis around, I will never question his heart. With a good coach, I think he'll definitely be above average when it's all said and done.

If it's not a terrible mistake then what was it? A good decision?

That's not the point, when was the last time any Bill on this roster has had even remotely close to any 1 season that Owens has had.

Very interesting stat: Every Bills player combined: 997 receptions Terrell Owens: 991 receptions That is a snippet from THIS ESPN article. Check it out!

From Chris Brown: 2:55 [Comment From Andrew ] What's your take on Nic Harris? He looked bigger than I expected in person. Do you think he could take Ellison's starting role at some point this season? 2:56 Chris Brown: Harris is a quick study and has done well in the early going. He's often getting praise from the coaching staff for his reads on defense and today he got a pat on the back for his technique on special teams. It's looking like he's going to be the most realistic challenger for Keith Ellison on the strong side. http://www.buffalobills.com/fans/live-chat.html That's good news

The biggest difference is that he might throw games to pay back gambling debts. Most convicts aren't in a position to affect big time gambling the way he would.

A few questions that you should answer: 1. Have you ever been in a position of high esteem, wealth, and prestige and have it all taken from you in your prime due to a terrible mistake on your part? 2. Have you ever been to prison? 3. Have you ever been under house arrest? 4. Are you Mike Vick? If you answered no to any of these questions, please do us all a favor and just keep your opinions to yourself. I'm all for people saying Vick doesn't deserve a second chance. Anyone who says that has a legit argument and I can see where they are coming from. But people who assume he hasn't changed a bit after all of that happening to him? Who the hell are you? I understand this was all his fault, but I'm willing to bet 90% of the people on this message board have never had anything this life changing happen in their lives. To go from one extreme to another in a matter of months. It's unfathomable to think that he "hasn't changed a bit." Unfathomable to think and absolutely moronic to state. I cannot stand people who talk about things like they have ANY idea when they haven't experienced anything close to it. It's sad.

Bust. He's Mike Williams. Done before his first start. I knew he would be terrible. Hope we can ship him out for a fifth next year.

So how will this work? Does he hit the waiver wires and Det has the first crack at him, or is it open season for Vick? Seems destined to wear Silver and Black to me.

Dude's lost $100 Million, and spent 2 years in jail. From Peter King. I'd sign him before New England did. Michael Vick's got it soooooooo bad. It's not like he brutally murdered two people...like that guy on our Wall of Fame. People deserve second chances. He's done his time, he's paid for it...and if he takes the necessary steps to rehabilitate himself and his image, I don't see any reason to not bring him in.

Care to elaborate?

I can't grasp the comparison to Gholston to Maybin. The author contends that Gholston "never made plays (at Ohio State)." Maybin made plenty of them at Penn State (sacks and tackles behind the line of scrimmage) against the same competition. Then he contradicts himself and says that Gholston (and Maybin) "won off the edge." One would think that if you won off the edge it would result in making some plays. The whole thing is very confusing.

I will say it just for my own peace of mind again. Even if Vick, recommitted to the game, became St. Michael the Penitent, he would need an offense that keeps him mobile, rolling out, firing on the fly. The Bills, getting Losman, a mobile QB with a rifle arm, immediately focused on breaking him into a 3 step drop pocket passer. So even if Vick becomes a future PETA Poster lovechild, the Bills would be utterly unable to use him, and would instead jam him into three step drops, which imho, he is not gonna succeed as, had he not spent 2 years away from the sport anyway.

I must be "most people" because I think that they are a very poor combination. Can anyone name ANY other team with a worse TE situation?

I have nothing to base this on, but I don't have a good feeling in my gut at all about Maybin. Too many annonymous criticisms of him and the talk of already moving positions bothers me too. Yeah, I know that is a pretty pessimistic view, but it is just how I feel. He could be Dwight Freeney or Erik Flowers. Nobody knows, not even OBD. That's why the need to get him into camp to see what he can do.... time will tell, we just need to be patient and give him 2-3 years to show some promise. But anybody who thinks he going to come in and start from game one, looking like Bruce Smith in his prime, is going to be disappointed.

PITTSFORD, N.Y. -- Now that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has announced the conditions of Michael Vick's reinstatement, teams know the plan if they want to sign the former Atlanta Falcons quarterback. http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0...have-him-.html

Did I ever say I like Mike Vick? Did I EVER say he was a good person? No. I said he paid his dues and deserves to resume his career, period. I don't necessarily think Mike Vick is a good person, but I know that I am in no position to come to that conclusion.

What if, say, Trent has a breakout season but the team as a whole sucks and we miss the playoffs again? I assume Dick would be fired and a new coach would come in and probably have a different system. What would the popular opinion be at that point?