Einstein
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Posts posted by Einstein
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7 hours ago, QCity said:
20 years from now - Glacier National Park. That's your head's up.
That sounds beautiful.
Cherry springs state park in PA is a fantastic spot for star-gazing. Perhaps the best spot in the United States. And could be a good option for the Eclipse as well.
Phot of Cherry Springs:
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3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:
I have to admit that I don’t understand how all of this PSL stuff works. What exactly are you buying and how does it work?
You're buying air.
I say that non-nefariously. There is simply no intrinsic value. It is a liability with guaranteed cost of more liabilities in the future.
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:Does the cost of the PSL include the cost of the game/event ticket?
No. You bought air. That is all.
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:And if not, I assume the actual ticket prices will increase over time?
Of course.
That's the plan.
When someone invests $50,000 in PSLs, the organization is aware that PSL owners will not forfeit their sunk cost by failing to purchase season tickets, as not doing so would mean losing the initial expenditure. Therefore, the organization knows they can raise ticket prices because the PSL holders are financially committed and that enables the organization to significantly increase ticket pricing because you're "stuck".
You either pay the increasing prices every year or you default and lose your money.
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:Does a PSL guarantee first right of refusal on ANY event held in the stadium?
Of course not.
Remember, you bought air. That is all.
To be fair to PSE, this isn't really the Bills fault. Any event that you would actually want to go to (think big music acts), the organizer has a contract that they control all tickets. So it's out of the Bills hands. You might be able to get a monster truck rally or something like that though.
For any events where they do throw PSL owners are a bone (meaning they offer to sell you tickets at full retail price just like the general public), they dont guarantee that you will have YOUR seats you paid for with the PSL.
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:Is the PSL permanent or does it just cover a specific span of years? In other words, does it expire?
30 years.
Which means if the team goes through another 20 year drought, you are obligated to continue paying the ever increasing season ticket prices. No matter what. Even if the team is on year 7 of Dick Jauron and we just went 7-10 for the 5th straight season, and they refuses to fire him, and they raise season ticket prices 20% ... you're on the hook to buy them.
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:Is the PSL transferable to your family/heirs?
Yes.
3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:Does the PSL include a free parking pass?
As long as you understand going into the process that you are purchasing air, then all is fine.
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3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
They’re selling fast.
Just teasing, but that is funny that they (i'm sure 'casually') told you that.
3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:The lower level clubs looked pretty cool but you can’t see the field from the club. You watch the teams though as they go out. They aren’t covered or heated but include food and Pepsi products ($15k PSL here). 64% of the stadium will be covered.
If it isn't heated or covered, why can't you see the field? What is the obstruction? And what is the benefit?1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:You can from the seats just not from the club. It’s like it is now.
Ahh.
So the seats are just normal outdoor seats (such as rows 1-10 right now at Rich) on the sideline?
They are only "club" because you can go inside to get food ... but no heat, or covering. -
2 hours ago, Gugny said:
I’ll preface by saying this is a big nothing burger.
However … I do often wonder if Josh really is the angel everyone (including me) makes him out to be.
There is a chance that he’s a total dick. There’s also a chance that some of his teammates take exception to the fact that he’s got no one competing for his job and - perhaps - could be taking advantage of that … by not studying film/being lazy (as has been reported).
It also seems likely that Josh’s personal life issues were all brought on by no one but himself.
It is plausible that the diva, here, is Josh Allen and that Diggs called him out on it.
Diggs was a postseason no-show. That is a fact.
But I don’t think anyone on the roster wanted to win more than he did and laziness, outside influences and an overly-casual attitude were definitely things he was ever guilty of.
Just my thoughts.
how dare you
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3 hours ago, FireChans said:
They tear down and rebuild the OL, the defense in a blink of an eye.
That was indeed frustrating to watch.
It feels as if every move they make is a success.-
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2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:
$40,000 for two seats out of the rain? Yikes!
Something something dome. -
It has been clear for a while now that Allen and Diggs relationship wasn't the close bond it was in 2020 and 2021.
Those who didnt believe it were simply burying their head in the sand.
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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I’m going tomorrow with no idea what we are going to do. There’s really 3 options and each has flaws. 1) East Club - heated, covered, most expensive. 2) Field Club - great location, less expensive, not heated or covered 3) Wait and slide into the corners somewhere. Hoping to still be covered but probably sacrificing heat and amenities.
I’ll report back with whatever I learn.
If youre looking for suggestions, East Club has my vote.
The heat and coverage is irreplaceable. -
2 hours ago, K-9 said:
I didn’t read the article, but thanks. The 20,000 number came from @Einstein, but the fact it was actually less than half that amount suggests the PSL sales for the Jets were actually pretty good.
Yes, close to 20,000. As I said.
Maybe you’re confused due the 9,000 that wasn’t sold. They essentially had to lower everyone’s prices who purchased in those sections in order to get the last 10k sold.
Considering that teams hold back several thousand tickets for individual sales (they don’t sell seasons for all seats), and that the Jets didn’t sell PSL’s (at all) in a lot of the upper decks, those 18,000 seats were likely close to 30% of all season tickets.
Summary; The Jets had to reduce PSL pricing on 18,000 PSLS. Atlanta did too. Oakland did too.
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46 minutes ago, papazoid said:
can you imagine the outrage finding out someone next to you paid less
I can imagine! It's exactly what the Jets did. And the Falcons. And the Raiders.
Although the Raiders (to their credit), ended up reimbursing the fans who paid more at first. -
3 minutes ago, FLFan said:
I think it remains to be seen if it’s a poor plan. The stadium will not open for over two years. If I were going to bet, I would bet on the multi billionaire and the team he has assembled who have no doubt studied this to death and have done it before, not the opinion of a fan no matter how dispassionately considered. When that stadium opens all available PSLs will have been sold and I am sure Terry will be very pleased with the financial result.
Do you mean like the multi-billionaire in NY (Jets - Woody Johnson) and his team who had to cut their PSL prices in half for nearly 20,000 seats to sell them? Or the billionaire owner in Atlanta that also had to cut their PSL prices? And Oakland?
"Shoot for the stars and you will land on the moon".
If you think billionaire teams dont mess up... google "New Coke".-
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Just now, Augie said:
For someone who is not at all emotional about this, you are quite persistent.
I don't see the correlation you're drawing.
If I am confident in my analysis, and therefore persistent in my belief, that = emotional ... to you?-
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39 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:
Just snag a ticket on the secondary market. you'll never be "priced out"...
Better yet, grab a PSL when the Bills cut the price in half - or when someone sells it on the resale market for penny's on the dollar. -
22 hours ago, Simon said:
Every single one of those guys has shown ability as a playmaker at this level.
And every single one of them was injured when the Bills were eliminated this year.
That's nearly 60% of your starting defense either out or playing with only three limbs.
No amount of scheming or depth can overcome that.
Well said.
We took KC down to the wire with 60% of our defense injured.
If we had a few of those guys back, we may have found ourselves in the Super Bowl.-
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11 minutes ago, K-9 said:
If the Bills achieve their desired PSL sales goal, then it can only be viewed as successful..
Successful for the billionaire owner, yes.
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21 minutes ago, Just Jack said:
The Vikings also did the new stadium center when selling their new stadium seats, here is one person's article about it...
Signing The Minnesota Vikings PSL Agreements (thevikingage.com)
I stand corrected. The Vikings too. I didn’t find any info on this when I looked.
The Vikings however publicly announced prices for PSL’s without having to go to the timeshare presentation. They didn’t hide it.
The presentation was just to buy the PSL you already knew the price of.
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2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
Thanks but my analogy or perception had nothing to do with my architectural background. It came from sitting through more than a few timeshare presentations. This is a distinct style of marketing and generally not a well appreciated one. It’s known for deceptive pricing, long term commitments, high pressure appointment style meetings, and hidden additional fees. I have no idea why the Bills adopted this style. It’s not as if your typical Buffalonian is visiting Orchard Park on vacation.
Well said. I was just reading through some older stadium builds and found some interesting tidbits.
- The only stadium I could find that also had a timeshare style presentation is the Falcons. They initially were selling the club section fairly quickly and advertised that (remind you of anyone?) and then it slowed down… They ended up cutting the price of PSL’s in HALF in some sections, which angered a lot of fans who paid PSL’s at full price.
- The Jets had a similar situation. They reduced the price of nearly 18,000 PSL’s (over 20% of the stadium) in half after a year of trying to sell them.
- Raiders reduced the price of PSL’s at their new stadium too, but to their credited, they credited people who already bought PSL’s to the new discounted price.
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1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:
The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting.
Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.
I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.It was a poor plan.
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6 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:
So if you don't have them then why are you on this constant crusade of bitchin about the process?
Not sure if you know this (genuinely) but PSL’s do not simply exist in the clubs. They exist in the entire stadium (including the area where I will sit).
That being said, I’m not “bitchin”. I am simply speaking truth to the situation. Many attempt to apply an emotion to my posts, but the truth is that I have very few feels on what I post. There are facts, there are numbers, and there is analysis based upon those facts and numbers.
Whoever wishes to purchase a PSL should do so. Their choice has no impact on me.
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42 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:
Do you have season club seats?
Not anymore.
Moved from Jim Kelly Club to M&T club (all exclusive with buffet)
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2 hours ago, WotAGuy said:
Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously? Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?Not that ive seen. Edit; The Falcons had a PSL preview center too, but I don’t know if it was required or just a perk.
I have traced back the announcements of the previous decade of new stadiums that I could find, and when the PSL’s were announced, nearly all of them had full write-ups of exactly what was included, how much they would cost in various parts of the stadiums, etc.
This was in addition to releasing dozens of renderings and introducing features and advertising benefits of the new stadium.None that I can find have done this shut-lips, timeshare style presentation, with a purposeful restriction of renderings.
The Bills are breaking the mold with this process.
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45 minutes ago, Just Jack said:
The have Club Seat Licenses that we pay every year. Same animal, different name.
They’re very different. Apples and oranges.
The club seat is essentially a ticket fee. They are a per year charge (PSL’s are a 30 year charge with a one-time fee) and the club seats can be cancelled at any time (PSL’s can’t) without paying any charge for a further 3 years. They also can’t be sold (PSL’s can), and there is no double taxation (PSL’s do).
Theyre completely different animals.
Really the only way they are similar is they cost money.-
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18 minutes ago, QCity said:
Yeah, it's unfortunate.
Many people skim posts, assume what it says, and then respond to it. My response to Rochester Fan was essentially a dissertation for his failing grade in comprehending what I have written.
Which brings us back to the analogy I made here: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/253817-psl-pricingseat-selection-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=9001503-
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PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Yes, IF you ignore these 3 factors:
1) If you count pre-season. I wouldn't.
2) And if you pay cash (most will finance is my guess).
3) And if you don't take into account opportunity cost, which would be approximately $181,260 over 30 years. Some of this will be offset by hedging against inflation.