Einstein
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Posts posted by Einstein
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28 minutes ago, mrags said:
Sure. Go ahead and post 3 more playoff games from the 90s bills and tell me how well you did on resale for those games.
In your mind, a 1990's Bills Playoff game = Regular season game in December after the team had lost 3 of our last 5 games? It was a regular season December game. Not a playoff game.
I don't see the correlation.I’m sorry that you mispriced your tickets for night games.
QuoteFirst you talk about how little money people have and how we can’t afford PSLs but then talk about how well resale is. When you haven’t even done it in 2+ years. But your next post will be to point out that the majority of fans in the area live in mom’s basement and flip burgers for $15/hr and cannot afford tix. But yet the stadium is sold out every game, and there’s a 7k person waiting list.
I never said you can't afford PSL's - I said PSL's will sell at a lower percentage rate as the team moves on to areas where fans with less income typically sit. In a completely separate conversation I spoke about how night games sold well. Those were two separate conversations not meant to be correlated.
Your inability to follow the conversation is not my fault. To be honest, I think what is actually happening is that you are taking my analysis of the PSL situation to heart, as a personal affront to you. I assure you that it wasn't meant that way. I'm not judging your decision to purchase. Not at all.
I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. I simply give my thoughts and that's it. You have every right to purchase a PSL and enjoy it. I hope you do. You can ignore me if you'd like - I wont take offense. -
1 minute ago, Just Jack said:
What section?
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Just now, mrags said:
Read what I typed again. And then think about your existence.
Trust me - I totally get it. Only games you deem as non-worthy night games count for your blanket rule of "night games don't sell well".
September doesn't count. December doesn't count. Playoff games don't count (although you previously said that playoff games don't sell well). I could post 3 more examples and it wouldnt matter.
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Just now, mrags said:
The first real playoff game in the stadium because Covid robbed us from the Colts game (and high I was at) and the Baltimore game.
Playoff games aren't played in December...
That was a game played when we were 7-5, coming off 3 losses in our last 5 games.
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8 minutes ago, mrags said:
try it now with a Monday night game in October and tell me how you do.
Let me guess - December dosn't count either.
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26 minutes ago, mrags said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
are you kidding me dude? Your really going to argue that selling your tickets to the season opener, the year after we lost in the .13 game, the year we signed Von Miller, the year that every single media outlet had us as the front runner for the years AFC Super Bowl contender, which happened to be a night game. And you want to tell me you didn’t lose money on those tickets? Yeah….. NO CHIT!!!!
you are absolutely crazy dude. I can no longer read a single thing you ever write and take you with seriousness at all in any way shape or form.
That was a night game, right? -
1 hour ago, mrags said:
When was the last time you sold night games? Because I did last year and I can tell you I had a hard time selling 1 night game. Lost money on one playoff game. Didn’t even get what I paid for them, and barely covered the other playoff game.
Titans game where we smashed them.
What price did you set the tickets at?
26 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:I also put a good percentage towards my 401K as well.
Don't you all have kids to send to college too ?
The vast majority do not do either of these things. You're falling into the trap of "I do these things, therefore others do as well". It's an easy trap to fall into.
There was a study done last year that showed that more than half of America has ZERO saved for retirement. Literally 0. Nothing. Zip. Nada.
And they certainly are not saving for college education either.
My good friend worked for a car dealership. He would often tell stories of people on welfare and food stamps that would arrive and request to test drive a vehicle with a $500 per month payment. Sometimes he even got them approved (I believe with some smudging of numbers). They happily drove off.
People have no problem spending $89 per month for Bills seasons.
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13 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:
You’re making a convincing argument that even average earners can afford the new $15,000 PSLs. A 10-year loan at 10% interest is about $200/month.
If that was the only payment, yes. But you're forgetting - it will be the PSL payment, PLUS the season ticket payment. A PSL payment of $200 is double what they spend on seasons right now, and the season ticket payment will likely go up by at least 50% as well. In essence, we are talking about a 3x increase in cash outlay.
Another place where price sensitivity will come into play with lower earners is the down payment required. I saw one person was quoted a down-payment of $8,000. I don't know the terms, but that surprised me and is likely where the lower earners will struggle (ie: see my comments on elasticity of demand). -
9 hours ago, mrags said:
Actually the night games don’t necessarily sell that well.
Then you are either charging too much or are in the wrong section. My night games sold like hot-cakes. I kicked myself for not pricing them higher because they were gone so quickly.
NOTE: The exception to this is Thursday night games. Those suck.
I do watch some other STH's on Ticketmaster just sit on their tickets though. And it's almost always because they have them priced at something stupid like $700 per ticket. Of course they aren't selling at that price. -
2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:
A guy that takes home $3,200 a month, that $1,100 hurts him a lot more. That's only $2,100 leftover. Mortgage/Rent, groceries, utilities, car payments, general family every day costs....
Are you under the impression that it is $1,100 per MONTH?
It's not.The 300-level is (on average - sections vary) 9 monthly payments of $89 per month. The 100 level is on average 9 monthly payments of $122 per month.
Therefore if you wanted to use a monthly budget, it would be $3,200/mo take home, with $3,111 left after budgeting the seasons in the 300's, and $3,078 leftover in the 100's.
2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:yeah that guy isn't buying $1,100 tickets.
Yeah, they are.
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2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I think that it is certainly doable for the Bills. You can sell 2, max 3 games, and pay for your season.
Yep.
If it’s a night game, you may only have to sell 2.
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2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:
The take home pay of someone around $50,000 is roughly $3,300. $1,100 for a ticket is 1/3 of their monthly take home pay.
The take home pay of $150,000 is $9,400/month.
$3,000 per ticket is 1/3 of their monthly take home pay.
See a similarity here? Again, this is all on purpose. The Bills (and other teams) calculate these prices for the exact reason i’m showing home.
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1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:
He is but still goes all of the time he said.
They used to have these little cards on the tables there with like a bio of your server. It said, “I was once featured in a Barstool Documentary.” I asked him about it. It was invigorating. Lol, I had him sign the card. Now every time that I’m in there I make him tell the story to whoever I’m with. My boss was in town a couple of months ago and Austin (that’s his name) told the story to him. His takeaway was that I’m an idiot. He’s a Pats fan. My girlfriend was in there with a couple friends a few weeks ago and told him that I’m his biggest fan 😂😂.
I always wondered how teams would even begin attempting to enforce a ban. How would you identify a banned person out of 70k?
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2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:
The guy that fell into The Pit and flipped off the police may have been a neurosurgeon. The guy that's been throwing the dildos onto the field in the past was probably a urologist.
This guy is the President of a hedge fund, of course.
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47 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:
You would downright be shocked if the current season ticket holders was much more than $50,000?
I would be downright shocked if it was more than 5% of season ticket holders around total income at $50,000. That is roughly $3,200 take home pay a month WITHOUT deducting insurance and other things.
Sorry, I'm not seeing that how that family is affording season tickets.
Club season tickets are ~$3,000 per ticket. That is 2% of a $150k annual family income.100-level season tickets are ~1,100 per ticket. That is 2.2% of a $50k annual family income.
300-level season tickets are ~$800 per ticket. That is 1.4% of a $50k annual family income.
This is not an accident. It's by design. The Bills price each level to appeal to the demographic. The % of income is near-identical but there are FAR more 300 level and 100-level seats than club seats.
So yeah, I would be shocked if the average current season ticket holder was not around the median income level of the Buffalo region. Not sure if you looked around the fans at a Bills game, but it's not 70,000 neurosurgeons, corporate executives and scientists.
PS, there is also a reason why season ticket renewal date is March 15th (hint). -
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6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:
Of course $22.00 an hour people aren't buying PSL's. That is about $44,000 per year and the poverty threshold is $30,000 and below.
So yes, families that are just $14,000 above poverty line and can't afford PSL's is kinda one of those "goes without saying" types of things.
Considering the per capita income of Buffalo is $29k and the median combined family income in Buffalo is $46k per year...
It would downright shock me if the median family income of CURRENT season ticket holders was much over $50k.-
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15 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:
1. Why is this taking so long to get people scheduled for this experience?
Because it takes a long time to put 60,000 people through a timeshare presentation. That's the honest truth of the matter.15 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:I have a feeling the Bills are realizing they overplayed their hand.
I think you may be right. The Bills releasing numbers of sold club seats to the Buffalo News (their media partner) was a huge red flag to me.
It reeked of marketing desperation. Aka, "we need to get the news out that clubs are selling fast so we create a sense urgency when season ticket holders visit the presentation."
I also saw some red flags with how they phrased the 75% renewal rate. Losing 1 in 4 customers is already bad, but I wouldn't doubt if the real number was closer to 1 in 3 and they are bumping it to 1 in 4 by offsetting corporate purchases. This doesnt mean they wont sell out - they will - but it will be a slow burn.
15 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:PSL rep said he has absolutely zero clue how much my PSL will cost, not even a range.
This is because they genuinely don't know. The Bills have not decided what the rest of the stadium will cost yet, because they were using club seats PSL's as a benchmark to price the rest of the stadium. -
9 hours ago, K-9 said:
Thanks for the edification. I had no idea that the Bills were only acting as agents for the ECSC and that they, the ECSC, are actually the sole owner of the right to sell the PSLs. With that thought in mind, I wonder why Polencarz voiced his displeasure at the reported costs of the PSLs recently when the county owns the right to sell them in the first place.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to dig that up. I’m gonna be reading the entire PSL Sales and Marketing Agreement to see what else I just took for granted.
Because ECSC doesn’t set the prices. Or decide how to sell them.
Thats all the Bills.The Bills are trying to maximize PSL value so the fans pay for as much of the stadium as possible.
Billionaires don’t pay. Average Jane’s and Joe’s working for $22 per hour pay.
And that’s okay, because other teams do it (or at least that’s the argument from other fans defending it).
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2 hours ago, K-9 said:
there is no precise contractual language that I’m aware that says they must use those revenues to cover their obligation,
The contract mentions it multiple times.
I’ve posted one such section below. The Bills (Stadco) must deposit all monies from PSL sales into the project fund and has no ownership interest in PSL proceeds.
2 hours ago, K-9 said:so technically, they don’t have to expressly dedicate those funds for that purpose.
No, they technically have to. They have no choice.
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1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:
It was the first that I heard it also. It has the Kleinhans shape and “look” from the outside. I didn’t see as much of the Aud. They just mentioned it as we were going through. I forgot about the Rockpile influence as well. You see that in the entrances. It looks a lot like the Rockpile.
I honestly don’t care (it doesn’t bother me), but i’m curious why they would pick Kleinhans to model from.
Its a staple, but definitely not in the top 5 of things I think of when “Buffalo New York” pops in my head.
Personally, since the day the rendering was released, all I can see is a stadium that resembles an upscale mall entrance.
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1 hour ago, K-9 said:
Technically, the Bills can use PSL revenues for whatever they wanna use them for, but it makes sense to put it towards their share of the construction costs.
They can’t.
PSL’s must be used for the construction project and nothing else.
Its just double taxation for WNY’ers.
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4 hours ago, Beck Water said:
AnHe says Diggs is a "very intelligent, self-aware, thoughtful person who understands what he's doing when he's doing it"
[all I can say to that is, Just Wow Joe. Frankly, if that's true that Diggs is very self aware and understands what he's doing when he's doing it, then Shame On You, Stefon for some of the crap you've pulled]Many have been saying this for quite some time now.
He knew what he was doing with the cryptic messages and things he would say.
Some even feel he took a shot at Allen today with this tweet:
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41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
3 years and it is interest free.
Oh I missed that. That is not a bad offer.
PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by Einstein
They are reducing prices already?
If you can link a single instance of this ever happening I will Venmo you $500.
I *really* want to see these other posters that are posting equations. I’m missing out on my type of folks!
Delayed until the 28th. And moved to Delhi instead of Mumbai. Bummer.
People should pay whatever they feel is right for them. I’ve paid several hundred dollars for bottles of wine at a restaurant that I could purchase for $80 online. But the experience of drinking it at the restaurant, with friends and/or colleagues, in that atmosphere, was worth it to me.
As long as people understand what they are doing (the opportunity cost, the consequences, the benefits, etc) then have at it.