Mikie2times

I think that concept of "team" is more Josh filling a lot of gaps, that then allow us to kumbaya and process more, but sure, I can get on board with wanting to see what the younger guys do and it being an exciting year. It should be and I'm looking forward to it.

What are we debating?

That's exactly how I feel about each player. Maxx Crosby, TJ Watt, Micah Parsons, Myles Garret, etc. Do we have to even ask this question for these guys? The more you have to think about it the more clear the answer is.

Oh give me a break. Says who? Bernard has had one really good year. Oliver has had how many postseasons to change a game and failed to do so? Benford just broke out along with Cook. Groot just got abused in his last playoff game and has a career best 8 sacks in a season. Are they really "elite" or more like top 15 guys? These players have never been voted on the All Pro team. Zero top 100's. So is this back to the poor disenfranchised Buffalo players not getting respect? It gets old. They aren't elite, that's why they don't get elite respect. I know that is a stunning conclusion.

Spencer Brown is a Pro Bowl player, Benford is Pro Bowl player, and Cook is a Pro Bowl player. None of the 3 are at an all pro level. Brown is the most likely to get there. No way in hell Oliver, Rousseau, or Bernard are part of that conversation at this point. Your response is sort of the point of his post.

I suppose the AFC east has had no impact on us at all. Everybody else is the benefactor, Buffalo is eternally disadvantaged with injuries, competition, and circumstances. Oh the pains of this vacuum I'm living in.

I'm cherry picking and you're doing what exactly? I asked a simple question, who would you pick with a top 5 team and one year to win the Super Bowl. Payton or McD? It's a landslide, don't even have to think about it for me. I don't care if Marty makes the playoffs a lot. I'm not picking Marty and I'm not picking Marty's brother either. Payton has at least shown big game stones, like calling for an onside kick in the Super Bowl. If you would take McD over Payton for that journey be my guest, nothing left to discuss AND EVERYBODY is cherry picking what they want to justify whatever opinion they have. THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS LITERALLY THAT.

And he was above .500 in the playoffs with the Saints 9-8, Super Bowl win, and has beaten a team that has won 13 games in the playoffs before. All things our guy is either worse at or has never accomplished. I'm not part of the Payton fan club, but crapping on him while throwing praise at our guy is a bit humorous.

Mister Defense on 5/13 before any football has been played "And Beane has just had one of the best off seasons and drafts the Bills have likely ever had--as it will likely be remembered as a seminal moment in the history of the Bills." You're such a champion of sound thought and reason. You, like Gunner, are highlighting one thing. Like QB play or points scored (in the regular season mind you), to describe a big concept, like is a team good or not. Then other people point to clear indicators to show how limited and short sited your view is. Then you follow with GOAL POSTS, GOAL POSTS are being moved! Keep being you missy d

Your point was hoping somebody didn't actually fact check your ridiculous opinion. McDermott has never beat a team that won 13 or more games in the playoffs yet you want to hold that against Payton. It's just dumb, sorry.

He lost to the following Bears team that went 15-3 49ers team that went 14-3 Seahawks team that went 14-3 and one that went 8-9 Vikings team that went 14-3 Rams team that went 15-3 Vikings team that went 11-6 Tampa Team that went 13-5 In nearly every game he was up against a team with a better record. What makes you think the outcome would have been different for McD? With exception of the Baltimore games his playoff wins are against Wild Card level teams. He has never beat anybody with the records of the games Payton lost.

Peyton has 9 post season appearances, A Super Bowl, and two appearances they didn’t win a playoff game in. He was 9-8 in the playoffs in New Orleans. In a better division by a country mile than McD ever has been in. McD with a better QB has never been to a Super Bowl and has an identical playoff record. So by your exact definition, if McD ever gets one it’s “lightning in a bottle” right? That is unless you want to form your entire argument on a few missed playoff seasons and a few early departures under totally different circumstances. Who was the last Super Bowl winner without 1 all pro level receiving option at TE or WR? Maybe one the last decade?

McD certainly has a high floor. I believe he would take just about any team and make them + in turnover margin very quickly. Which in turn puts you at the brink of a wild card spot most years and that’s without a league MVP at QB. But is McD capable of hunting bigger game? I would say to this point it’s a fairly definitive no. Those first few years the moment WAS too big for him. While I think he’s growing, he’s not a natural big game hunter in my eyes. Maybe, maybe not, but if you had one year to get to the Super Bowl with a top 5 squad who are you choosing to be the HC? I would go Payton. If I had a Bottom 10 squad and needed a wild card birth I would go McD.

I thought it was a given that nobody cared how we did vs Mac Jones? How specific do you need things? This thread is about our defensive investment. That investment would never happen if those wild card games vs back ups meant anything.

People that defend the defense vs scrub quarterbacks just aren't seeing things clearly. We have played good playoff defense against Mac Jones, Mason Rudolph, and a few other back ups. Who cares? Then Lamar Jackson in the wind tunnel game where Josh also did nothing (because neither offense could). Again, WHO CARES? We played a good first half against Baltimore last year. That is our crown jewel thus far. The question mark for this team isn't can the defense be good or will it be good. Both are likely going to be the case. It is about things translating to the postseason. Can they also be good in the divisional round or later where they have nearly the worst EPA defense out of any team in football to make the divisional round since 2020.

I really don't know how much healthier we can expect to be that late in the season. That was the healthiest we have been in years. The idea that Josh Allen entered that game thinking they were "undermanned" and that is why he was wild, is about as wild as anything I have read here. Especially considering the year prior we scored on our first two possessions when we actually DID have severe injuries It will only not be a massive failure to the apologists and homers They were first in total defense in 2021. Literally, #1 in the entire NFL. 5th in total offense that year. Unfortunately we couldn't overcome ourselves. This team HAS played good regular season defense with multiple top 10 finishes. They have never played good playoff defense.

Not to mention it’s not like these guys are struggling to get by at this point. Manning has the biggest NIL deal of anybody at this point.

You don’t get the luxury of “process” if that pick doesn’t hit.

This thread is going to be silly in a few more months. I don’t think I want to be on the “WR are good enough” side of it. Good luck all. Bets have been placed.

Kenny talking to Joe in the shower after practice

I think it's a year we learn more, which means we get closer (or all the way). I have been highly critical of McD, but anybody could see how talent deprived the defense was last year. Can this team play championship caliber defense? That is the big question. We should have the horses this year. We should be able to hold McD and company to solid playoff showing with the roster we have. If that doesn't go well, we should be concerned about our coaching. If it does go well, we should give McD more credit (if you're one that is skeptical). It would seem hard to come out of this year without clarity, but then again that is something we seem really good at.

It seems possible or even likely we would win, but I would say that conversation shifts more to us knowing how to utilize those new assets defensively vs if Allen is being better served in doing so. I don’t have a horse in this race to be honest. I just don’t think we all of a sudden will be in a position to protect leads come playoff time because of this investment. We have had very good defenses prior with very poor playoff results. Is this investment chasing bad money with good? Does that even matter because the talent sucked so much it had to happen regardless? Just not overly confident in that side of the ball fulfilling its destiny as a playoff elite squad. I wish we could have juiced both sides a little but understood we only have so much to go around. We will see, at the very least I’m excited to see what these rookies can do and even more excited to see some actual change to our schemes (I hope).

In our system you want a mobile QB and to limit turnovers. So it’s probably Tyrod, even if he ain’t the best one.

We had the ball with under 2 minutes back to back years and a chance to take the lead and did nothing. You can pretend that means nothing if you want. You can pretend that these defensive additions will prevent us from that scenario again. You can pretend this group of skilled guys are the type to elevate us in the final moments vs the best in the game. Any degree of logic points to none of that being true. Still doesn’t mean we didn’t need defensive help more.

Until I see him dipped in molten lava like the terminator I'm assuming it's not over.