Phil The Thrill

I think that Smith would’ve been held back by the terrible 2012 Bills defense led by led by Magnum DW. But in his career Smith has been a more productive QB than Fitz, committing less turnovers, and winning more games. The talent around him wouldn’t be the best, so he’d be up against that as well. But I don’t think it’s fair to say he wouldn’t have done anything more than Fitzpatrick, who has a history of falling apart down the stretch

I hate to go here but.... how much does this have to do with a developing QB that struggled with accuracy and timing? I’m not sure if that is as much of an issue with Daboll as it is with Allen.

I don’t know - what Joe B is saying is that Fournette could immediately step in and contribute in 2020. I can’t see the Bills drafting a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round. Is there any guarantee that a RB drafted later will be better than Fournette? Weren’t you shocked when they traded a 1 for Diggs?

It’s not hindsight. Most draft analysts and pro scouts that put a 3rd-5th grade on EJ. He wasn’t even the first QB on many team’s draft boards. When you draft a player in the first round that the majority of teams think is a mid/round selection, because you think he can be a franchise QB.... that’s the problem.

In his defense, Beane signed AJ McCarron to be the QB bridge/mentor to Allen. The problem is, he had no interest in this role and (believe it or not) Peterman was playing well in the preseason. So it’s not exactly an identical situation but there are some similarities in the fact that both teams didn’t make a move when they should have. After Kolb was hurt the Bills didn’t both signing anyone else, electing to start the year with 2 rookies at QB. When McCarron was trades the Bills were ok with Allen and Peterman at QB. They should have brought in a veteran like Derek Anderson earlier. Beane has admitted that much.

You are right here, from what I remember. The rumour was that potential head coaching candidates in 2012 were asked about potential scenarios with a QB like Alex Smith. Like you said, they should’ve made a move while they had a chance.

Read the article.... I though you were asking how I’m the blue hell Buddy became GM. That’s how

Fair assessment thought I don’t think Kolb was much better than Moore or Hoyer. Also with his injury history, there’s a very good chance that had he not met his demise with the bath may, it could’ve happened on the field. I just think there were options that could have been taken in 2013. Maybe the reason why they didn’t is because they evaluated EJ much higher he was in actuality - who knows? Either way - I think we can agree QB was mismanaged throughout this administration and as a Bills fan, it was one of the more frustrating periods - though as sad as it is, Orton did give a faint glimmer of hope.

Barkevious Mingo

Do you honesty feel Kolb was the best answer possible????? Answer that directory. I think it was understood that when Marrone took over on 2013, the team probably wasn’t going to be competitive. But they were taking a rookie and the plan was to have him sit. The difference between Houer or Matt Moore is that neither had an injury history. They actually....you know would have allowed the “plan” to take it course. They’d get between 6-8 starts before turning the reigns over EJ. If Hoyer performed average fans would be ok, knowing he ‘s short term and EJ was the “future.” Do you honestly think that Kolb was the best choice available? Because I don’t. A 5th year QB who hasn’t finished an entire season and was 1 concussion away from retirement. Why not sign Kolb and a Hoyer or Anderson? OR maybe make a trade like teams do every season. The Bills has 2 whole seasons to create a contingency plan at QB. TheIr answer was....Kevin Kolb. I don’t have “blind hate” for Doug Whaley. I think he was a below average GM. Listening to the Whaley apologists make all of these excuses, just makes me want to echo my thoughts. I think that part of the problem was that Tyrod was being positions as the team’s answer at QB after 2015. At the time, we didn’t know where his ceiling was. I think that it was understood that he was a placeholder for a rookie, that fans would have been a bit more forgiving

It makes perfect sense. Ralph only wanted to hire a GM he knew. That limited the search to about 3 candidates - most were likely internal

Funny because several of these options are better than Kelvin Kolb. That’s my main point there were MORE options. Not great options, but certainly better. You make it sound like Kolb was the only solution. I see several choices that would be better: - Matt Moore - Brian Hoyer - Derek Anderson Just to name a few... Also when Kolb was hurt why wouldn’t they pick up another QB? You fail to take into account trades. You never know which QB’s could’ve been had for a 5th or 6th round pick as a temporary starter/mentor Again saying there were no better options is the ultimate cop out, because there were other moves. Whaley just chose not to make them.

I would agree but the real problem was that Nix and Whaley saw him as a franchise QB and drafted him in the middle of the first round. You draft QB’s that you can develop as functional backups in the late rounds - not the middle of Round 1. They have EJ chances. I don’t blame the team for not taking the time to groom his as a backup when he was drafted to be THE man.

Sorry but I never have bought the line that this was the only move they could’ve made nor do I buy the “slim pickens” (where the hell does that phrase even come from?) excuse. I think Whaley actually believed this excuse as well and was always like “Eh, there’s nothing we can do. We’re in QB pergatory so we can spend money at other positions.” That was the ultimate cop out to the fan base. There were moves that could have been made at QB between trades and free agency. We saw this in 2014 with Kyle Orton - and in years before and after. You can always trade a low draft pick for a competent backup or sign a veteran QB off the street. These would not be game changing moves at QB. But certainly a better option that Kevin Kolb. Whaley and Nix chose not to take them, and we’re satisfied with Kolb. Then when Kolb was hurt rather than bringing in a veteran QB, they did NOTHING. This was a major mistake and it showed, once again, why they were less competent GM’s than fans give them credit for.

Maybe so, but what Nix and Whaley could have done is not get into this position in the first place where they needed to draft a QB and where there weren’t any backups. Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole of bad decisions by the regime when it comes to QB? They easily could have made a number of different moves the season prior or in the offseason to make moves to bring in more competition at QB in both 2012 (after they signed Fitzpatrick to starter money and decided he wasn’t a starter) and 2013. Of course, their only solution to sign an injury-probe backup. To suggest that drafting EJ, a 4th round prospect in the 1st round, was their only option is foolhardy. Nix and Whaley were bad GM’s and their records reflect that. Over-drafting a 3rd/4th round QB in the middle of round 1 is never defensible.

Situations like this is why I have a much lower regard for the work of Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley. Some people here feel that Whaley did a great job and was a victim. They also feel that Nix did a decent job. I disagree on both greatly. The plan they developed for the most important position on the field is dreadful. This will bring back nightmares!

It’s a bit of a different situation, though there are similarities. In 2013, the Bills signed Kevin Kolb an unproven QB with a track record of concussions and injuries. He was a 5th year starter. No one else outside of EJ. Once he was hurt, they didn’t bother signing anyone else and rolled with Jeff Tuel. They did bring in Thad Lewis who was almost as inexperienced. In 2018, the Bills signed AJ McCarron. Again, an unproven 4th year QB, but one that they thought could give them capable QB player and mentor their rookie. They also had Peterman, and as bad as he look in the regular season, actually put together a decent preseason. The problem rumoured problem was, McCarron didn’t want to be a backup and wasn’t as enthusiastic about mentoring Josh as they had hoped. So they started Peterman thinking he could get them through half a season. 1st game was a nightmare and it took them weeks to bring in a veteran QB. Beane admits this was a mistake. They should have brought in Derek Anderson earlier. They did get him in, but it was too late. Whaley and Good Old Buddy Nix never bothered to sign a veteran until Kyle Orton in 2014

Buddy basically threw Russ Brandon under the bus later in the article, essentially saying “Russ and I are friends but he was all about the PR and advertising.” Of course, as bad as Russ was he still had a better record as GM than Buddy did. Russ went 7-9 in his lone year as GM. Buddy never did better than 6-10

Marrone was coming off a 5-11 season and was under some pressure due to tension with Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon. I think he felt he needed to show progress. There’s a good chance an EJ led team finishes 5-11 again or worse.

Yeah I agree. He talked a little about Pat Mahomes and Alex Smith. I really do believe he feels if he was in a situation where he could sit behind a good veteran QB like Smith and brought along slowly, that things would have turned out differently. He also did say he takes responsibility for his career, it’s not like he used it as an excuse. But I just get the feeling he thinks his career could have gone differently

Wait...Russ lives on Canandaigua Lake?

They really didn’t have to use a high pick on a QB. There probably were other options than Kevin Kolb. They didn’t have to let Fitz walk and they could have always signed a vet to compete in 2012 and he did one of his legendary Fitzpatrick late season tanks. But they painted themselves into this situation and it turned out terrible - thank you Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley Or maybe we should just post about 30 new threads about players the Bills will have no chance of drafting...you know?

QB Rating - great example of manipulating numbers without context to prove a false narrative. Josh has his issues. His numbers aren’t pretty, but he’s ahead of where EJ was in his second season.

I will never understand why the Bills didn’t do better than Kevin Kolb as the answer to the play the “veteran mentor.” He wasn’t exactly a grizzled veteran and there were better options. It would have made sense if they signed Kolb (knowing his injury history) and another veteran, because they likely knew they were drafting a QB. Then...when Kolb got hurt, rather than signing a QB like Kyle Orton in 2014, they were like “ yeah our QB room is good with 2 rookies.” EJ was a failed pick and for that Whaley and Nix deserve a lot of blame. But IMO they deserve MORE blame for not having any type of plan to develop the QB or not having the ability modify that plan on the fly. Both Nix and Whaley were terrible GM’s. Good riddance. I always thought he would be an excellent QB mentor and reliable if presses into action for short stretches

While there are similarities, I think that Josh’s athleticism was a lot higher than EJ’s. He also made some outstanding throws that I don’t believe EJ could ever make. It seems to me that NFL analysts and coaches always get Allen had a much higher ceiling and potential which is why he was a unanimous first round projects. EJ was projected as low as a 4th rounder. Would consistency help EJ? Probably, but the question would still be whether he’s good enough to be the Bills unquestioned starter.... I’m not sure if he was that guy Oh I’m not defending him. I do think there’s something to the fact that he’s out of the NFL after 6 seasons. There’s probably a reason few teams have taken the time to kick the tires