UConn James

And BTW, destroyed the US's credibility for ever again saying "X is a dangerous regime/group that is developing WMD" w/o having to show them classified material to get them to accept it. Since this is a global war, why is our leader lying or not admitting that it was wrong about the WMD and that it won't happen again. I'm not a fan of Saddam, but that's not the point. They're not addressing that the Intel was wrong, and instead are providing a litany of excuses, one after another, as to why it was proper, after the fact. What about Iran, where the leader is democratically elected? We can't exactly invade there to provide them a democracy. Good luck forming a broad coalition for when there isn't a dictator wearing a funny hat. Either way, the days are gone when other countries could take what we say at face value. That is yet another reason why we need someone else.

I never argued that the benefits of ASC aren't great news in preventing diseases, but as rosy a picture as you try to paint, there are limitations on it. So, your main argument is that ESC haven't been proven to be effective. Well, no stevestojan, when it's not given much funding to do the early research. ASC have been used for quite a bit longer than ESC, I'm WELL aware of that. There were problems back when they were first developed that they've worked to correct. The same can be done for ESCs if you give researchers the time and some funding and not place hurdles in the way. I suppose the Romans could have continued to build with wood and never developed concrete b/c before it was it wasn't PROVEN to work. It took people to say, 'Hey this concrete might be really good for underground foundations...' You're saying let's always just go with what we've got now, and not try to develop things that could work better. It's called attacking from multiple fronts. The speech in August 2001 was a big sign to researchers and biology students, that it wouldn't be worth their time to work with ESC b/c of red tape. Bush has a a fundamental problem with accepting science and the application of it to policy. Global Warming, to him, isn't a problem despite melting ice caps, rising CO2 in the air and oceans (which will eventually kill off sea life). Evolution is bunk to him despite archaelogical, skeletal, carbon-dating, DNA, etc. evidence. Science is about collecting data and making logical conclusions based on the facts, something his administration hasn't been very good at all around. "In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." WTF! Effing READ the posts before you respond! I never said I support abortion. I said they're different issues -- and most Americans agree. I support life and finding ways to cure diseases that kill millions! There's too much political BS here. I can't really fault Kerry for his answer b/c the debates give you 90 seconds to talk about it. Same as all of the other simplistic responses both sides need to give. Ditto for me, except I'm something of an optimist and I think in broader terms and with an eye toward the future.

(Note: The editing feature is best used for quick corrections) If you really believe in fundamentally defining this as a religious war, then you are confusing the root causes of terrorism much as saying that Christian fundamentalism was the cause of the Oklahoma City bombing. The problem is economic, and skewed through the kalidescope of Islam. Mix a harsh economic climate with the West (albeit, slowly) developing technology that will make your sole source of income from your lone natural resource obsolete in the forseeable future. Mix in unemployed young men, who face pressures of self-doubt who then run to a extreme branch of religion that will help them feel empowered again. Why do you think mothers and siblings are pushing their sons to die for the cause? It's the same as families pushing their children out of the house at 18 in this country to make it on their own. But there's few avenues to success there, which after long enough leads to thoughts of suicide in a certain segment. Then you get a group that takes advantage of that segment and makes it a quest they'll be rewarded for chillin' next to Allah. Like Hamas, they probably provide some food, a little money. And the weak minds accept this (I don't know how much of this "ultimate reward" they really believe versus just going along w/ the religious crap b/c they want to fight). An offshoot of a stevestojanny economy is little education. The best thing we could do in Iraq, if it is to succeed long-term, is to put a lot of money into the schools and universities and try somehow to influence the curriculum to math, science, economics, civil engineering, etc. They need to establish jobs and commerce in these regions rather than begging for foreign aid/handouts and the control of the oil supply by governments. Stop hacking at the branches. Strike the root!

Is this the only response you ever give!!? If I had my nephew counting how many times you've used that exact line, he'd have to take off his shoes and open his fly.... Sorry, but your one-liner put-downs don't prove anything other than your propensity to use ad hom attacks to 'prove' your point. Just like how you've moved from Flip-flopper to Liberal and next week I'm fully expecting Bush to call Kerry a Martian. But I guess when you can't win on the issues, you go with whatever you can grasp at. What "borders on dangerous"? I think it's dangerous how this admin doesn't listen to what they don't want to hear, how they remove anyone who dissents in a crowd. Worked for NASA, tho.... On Edit: How nice of you to ellucidate more than the one-liner.

And it will also be interesting to see if the election has to be decided by the Supreme Court again, rather than allow a routine recount for results <1% apart. Back on topic, tho, maybe if someone other than Bush were president, those other countries would increase their involvement in the coalition rather than offering a hundred troops and a box of duct tape. Sorry to be so cynical, but it's all about the money that comes thru the contracts. Open them up a little and you'd be surprised at how many countries would then become interested in helping out in Iraq.

Because that's the "gay cancer"? AIDS doesn't discriminate. And I added some to the previous post. (Edit feature is nice for when you forget a couple-few sentences.) BTW, it's not like stem cell research breaks the bank. Federal funding in 2003 was about $17 million for embryonic stem cells, about $150 million for adult stem cells. I met someone whose cancer was beaten w/ ASC, who said the doctors were even more excited about what ESC could do for treatments. This is a drop in the ocean for the govt, and for the research it produces, it's well worth it. The biggest part of Bush's directive, tho is just the physical place and equipment where researchers can do their testing. As it stands, if they get ANY federal funding for their other work, they have to literally set up and work in another lab to work on lines created after August 2001 -- the ones that weren't grown w/ mouse cells as starters.

Mmm. And in Article II, every time it gives details to the Office of the President and uses the third person, the Framers used "he." So, I guess only a man can be president then? (On edit: This might not be such a bad idea... ) I also don't remember reading about them funding paved roads, but the government did that too, b/c it promotes capitalism. I see medical research, and indeed, medical care as a situation of national security. Especially in this day and age with SARS, cancer, AIDS, SIDS, premature birth, etc. We lose how many people to disease and sickness every year? Flu kills 36,000 annually, when we have vaccine -- how many will die this year b/c our domestic pham. companies don't think there's enough of a profit in it? People who could live to make valuble contributions or grow up to be our future doctors, soldiers, bankers, firefighters.... A country's population represents, in essence, how many people they have to fight and produce for their country. Our population growth rate has declined rather steadily while other parts of the world has increased exponentially. By having better health care and conducting ethically guided research, we can save millions of lives. And yes, there are many scientists who are absolutely amazed with what stem cells can do, and this is the early phases of the technology. It's not pie-in-the-sky theory. AD, I'll take your oft-mantra and say, Yeah YOU know where best to spend the money. How about a day when AIDS in this country gets to proportions like Africa or China? It's about diversification of resources. There's successful treatments for cancer; so far there's no cure for AIDS.... That's how it works. We've done missile defense, multi-lateral talks, (had) UN weapons inspectors, foreign aid to North Korea in response to their nukes. We bank on the hope that one or all of them will work. But people do want $1 trillion to be spent on this missile defense.... I don't personally agree with abortion either but maybe you should rethink calling yourselves "pro-LIFE."

One of my cousins had quadruplets and now is probably changing diapers 24/7. You can't stop people like your wife's boss from being irresponsible a-holes. But I'm not going to stop people from doing something just because there is the possibility of situations like that b/c a select few are idiots. Just like you don't take away everyone's gun b/c someone robs a bank. Is eating chicken eggs disgusting? Do you want everyone to stop doing that? Because what if they had been fertilized? That could have been a chicken that you just ate! If you're disgusted by in-vitro (which simply gives the process of life an assist), don't look up photos of in-body conception.... The human body is a pretty ugly and beautiful thing at the same time.

Well, then I guess you're disgusted by in-vitro fertilization. Until you're one of the many couples who needs to use it to conceive a child. Sorry. That's the science. They take a lot of eggs, they take the sperm, mix it together and many embryos are formed. The doctor selects several that appear the most viable and implants them. A lot of the embryos are not viable, a lot of them are really weird-looking. They freeze or destroy the rest. It's the body human. Double U, Tee, Eff?

Bump. (This one's for you, Rich. )

Check out Post #11. And swede, if you don't follow the link, embryonic stem cells aren't derived by embryos that will or could be viable. They come from leftover embryos from in-vitro fertilization that wouldn't ever be used, and eventually destroyed anyway. This is a seperate issue from abortion, tho some people like to mislead others to think it isn't. And no, stem cell research wouldn't have helped Mr. Reeve in time. That's not what he was fighting for. He was fighting to push the research ahead so cures might eventually be found. Cures for diseases you may someday have. Funny how, like the Reagans, your opinions change when it hits home. Spending seven years of his life, a lot of his own money, for something he wouldn't even benefit from? How dare you people disrespect him with your crap! Nice how you didn't want to respond to that thread b/c the facts suck for you. Had to start your own and push that one down the line.....

I never said that fear is cowering-inducing. In fact, fear often results in action, albeit lashing-out action that serves no purpose other than to try to show others you're not afraid. The worst being full of passionate intensity, and all.... And like I said and you, and others, caught up in v.2004, pay no attention to is that terrorism has been going on forever. Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics, applied to the grand scheme: chaos and disorder is the nature of the universe. Define the war and what "victory" means, but it's all for naught, b/c you're NEVER going to stop chaos. The way it's going, you can only live with it and try to adapt efficiently. Then the enemy will adapt, then we'll adapt, on and on.... "There are a thousand hacking at the branch of evil to one who is striking at the root." -- Thoreau. You and others probably will not like this, but fighting against OBL and his minions is not what is going to ultimately win the WoT. There are always new minions to take over. What drives young men to kill and be killed for their cause? I'm a cynical bastard, so I say it is all about economics and resources. Politics and religion are just sideshows that try to de-emphasize that the message is about material wealth. Strike the root! Uhh, Iraq and the WoT are two different topics? News to me! So, I guess the above might be the approach to the broad WoT. But for the mess in Iraq, I'll add that adapting efficiently is something this administration refuses to do, with its "steadfastness" and "staying the course." Have you seen the Tony Robbins infomercial where he says, "You can have all the drive and determination in the world, but when you keep running headfirst into the wall, you need to come up with a better strategy!!" Simplistic and yet so many people don't get this.

Okay, black is white. Up is down. I find myself in agreement with AD about something. Why would anyone want a Top 10 pick? It's a great way to %$&* your salary cap, whether the player is any good or not, which many times the player's production isn't near what you expected. Take MW, for example. We have a large tub of lard playing matador to DL league-wide, and for this, we paid out a huge contract. Get out of the top 10 and the salaries go down exponentially. That's the reason why so many teams want to trade down every year, and why so few do. It takes a really ballsy GM or a Sure Thing to do so. If Dallas gets that high a draft pick next year, I'm not going to lambaste the move. We paid a lot less of a contract for a player who's got just as good a chance to be an effective starter. Back on topic, using a 2nd rounder on Nugent is as good a pick as anybody. And, like Detox says, you get a kicker who's used to the snow and cold weather, and who can kick 68-yarders to boot. That's something I could get used to after watching Lindell make exuses every time he has a critical miss. (And with league scoring, EVERY miss or kick-not-taken is critical.)

Oh, I thought for a moment someone de-pants him at a speech or something.... Rich, your intellect is truly amazing.

You know, I'm reading this thread and thinking What's the point? Terrorism has been around in one form or other since the days of the cavemen. The Huns one day, Al Queda the next. Same thing throughout human history. There is no way to stop it so long as one group of people hates another; some type of weapon will be used to make a psychological impact/promote fear in the Other. Go ahead and waste your breath, time, money and stamina thinking it can be stopped and debating what the definition of "victory" is. Keep living and reacting with fear; you screw up a lot when you do that.

I was looking for a link to this on the Forum listing page a while back and couldn't find it. Figured it got kiboshed w/ the new server.... Just like everything else, you can't find it when you really need it! And BTW. I was wrong about the O not being able to score 10 points. Good thing I didn't take the bet. Even tho when my cousin called when it was 14-13, I predicted exactly what was going to happen, right down to the INT.

Actually, I'm not even a "leftie" but I stay away from these types of topics because I refuse to have a battle of wits with unarmed people.

23 April 2036. :) The current response to terrorism and the constant spotlight on it is exactly what is sought by AQ. I don't know about you but when I have a sinus infection, I don't cut my nose off with a chainsaw, I just take a decongestant.

I did a LOT of research on this topic for a 20-minute speech last semester. To clarify some of the nuance: Embryonic stem cells are much different from adult stem cells. Embryonic SC can become any type of cell in the body human; adult SC have a limited scope b/c they've already differentiated into a cell type. There are NO adult stem cells for heart, nerve and other cell types, which are some of the MAIN areas for use in the biggest diseases like heart disease, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, etc. Embryonic SC are created from week-old embryos derived from in-vitro fertilization that aren't selected for implantation into the mother. After the procedure, they are frozen or destroyed. The lines that have been created have received full permission from the donors. Bush allowed federal funding for stem cell lines created before his speech in August 2001. There were about 70; researchers report that anywhere from 10 to 20 are viable, but that these have been cultivated using mouse cells as starters, which makes future transplantation to humans dubious (they can now create lines w/o using the mouse cells). Researchers also report that the NIH has stone-walled on distribution of the lines. And yes, private research is allowed. But do private researchers publish their findings frequently in journals about some procedure that has been successful for them? No. Universities are the places where the pure research, not for $ gain, occurs. As it is described, university researchers basically have to set up a different privately-funded lab to use the newer stem cell lines, and have to use entirely seperate equipment if federal funds put 1 cent into something. That's literally having to buy another microscope when you already have one sitting on the counter. That's BS. Kerry has supported responsible, ethically-guided embryonic stem cell research all along. Bush has seen this issue through the lens of the abortion issue, which is the wrongest way to look at it. He imposed a glass ceiling with a compromise that wasn't a compromise at all. This is a president who does not believe in science. Instead, this is going to be another job sector that's outsourced to India. And this is a big one in the myriad reasons he'll not be getting my vote. Sad that it took the passing of Christopher Reeve to put the spotlight on an issue that deserves more debate than 30 seconds. I hope it's talked about on Wed. b/c Bush is going to get schooled. This is a good article on the subject. You'll have to have to click on the "Free Day Pass" and go through a small ad....

Hit a 29-yarder and got a KO down just inside the 10. And this on extremely short notice, in-game. When will TD clue in that having a GOOD, CONSISTENT kicker will win you games in this league of 7-pt or less victories? Here's to Mike Nugent, OSU, in the 2nd or 3rd round.

That many people can explain it? Yeah. Sounds about right.... Truth be told, the American public and even people in-the-know have little to no idea what the colors all mean. We've seen, and not seen, the stepped-up security for Code Orange. It's a pretty pathetic cop-out to be able to say after the fact 'Well, hey, we raised the terror threat level!.... Unfortunately, we didn't inspect for boms in cargo containers.' That's the same as how our leaders supposedly didn't ever believe planes could be used as missiles. How about gauging the possibilities? How about meaningfully funding the DoHS and increase their function? Instead, we're spending our money liberating an area that had no links to terrorism or WMD; based on listening to people like Chalabi, who's now in jail for fraud and other charges. And what will actually happen at the Red warning level? Will everyone be forced to stay in their homes, and be shot if they step outside? Will it be martial law? I doubt we'll ever be back at Green or Blue.

<sarcasm> Hey, no fair. They're supposed to LOSE b/c rookie QBs taking over for old, immobile QBs just can't be successful in the NFL. </sarcasm>

This is the first time I've caught an OSU game this year, but watching this kicker Mike(?) Nugent is everything Rian Lindell is not. Consistent, good stepping technique, strong leg, accurate. Had a 55-yarder before the half that he curved and sailed through the uprights, probably would have been good from mid-60s. Announcers said he hit a 68-yarder in a training camp. OSU is VERY lucky to have this kid. Anyone think he'll still be around in the 2nd round (and from the looks of things, early second round)? Not that TD would use a draft pick on a kicker. But Ker-ist, imagine not having to pray to the football gods when attempting a FG from over 38.

Actually, I admit it rather freely that I'd rather have had Wes Clark. But should Kerry win, he'll be pegged for Sec. of Defense, which I think would be a great place for him, as a foil to Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz, the bean-counters. What does it matter that Kerry & wife have four properties? My parents have three.... And I'm sure AD could fill you in that the SS budget won't change regardless of who's in office.

Kerry was simply pointing out that most of the "small business owners" that would be affected by rolling back the tax cuts, for earners >$200,000, are ones where the "business" is $1 here, $84 there that can count as a "small business" according to Bush. Paco, methinks 2001 was the last year where access to the taxes is available. And what does it matter that Bush may not be claiming it in his returns now? He did, and 900,000 others do. His point that rolling the tax cuts back would hurt many "small businesses" was shot down. TracyLee, I got that sense too, but more like an "I could give a stevestojan what my tax guy does to scrounge every penny he can" reaction. Too bad for those other schmucks who pay their taxes honestly rather than through loopholes.