ChiGoose
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Posts posted by ChiGoose
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3 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:
Your correct but this woman just stated things that are clearly lies while under oath to Congress and many people heard it and believed it. The vast majority of coverage today was that she was dropping a bombshell when anyone who gives it an ounce of thought knows the Secret Service would not allow him on stage with guns in the crowd and that the Beast does not allow for the president to get near the steering wheel. This entire committee is a sham and today is basically par for the course.
Is your argument that the committee is a sham because all of these Republicans, Trump employees, Trump appointees, and Trump supporters are lying?
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43 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:
The reality is we are at the stage of the implosion of civilization where Leftists are just rewarded for joining the cause however inane, inept, illegal or whatever their concepts are....
They will be rewarded by the Left in many ways for forwarding the cause...
How many people on this board keep espousing theories about the 2020 election that have been thoroughly debunked?
The Left is not alone in its issues. The most vocal and powerful faction of the Right believes in outright lies.
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13 minutes ago, Andy1 said:
Whatever happened inside the Beast is kinda irrelevant. There was plenty of other testimony indicating Trump was planning to overturn the election. I mean what President has ever said that his VP deserved to be murdered?! The only answer is Trump.
Yes, but why acknowledge that when you can point to people on Twitter who are enjoying the limo story and make fun of them instead of recognizing that Trump is in serious legal jeopardy?
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3 minutes ago, B-Man said:
Wow, thats an impressive amount of gibberish.
It's not "Another Person" challenging that sonny, it is the actual agents and driver. You know, the ones that the "under oath" person (who was not even there)
discusses.
They have already testified. So if they do come out tomorrow and discredit today's democrat "bombshell" I am sure that @ChiGoose will admit his/her error.
.
I never stated that I 100% believed her. She was clear that she heard the story secondhand. It should obviously be taken with a grain of salt.
My point was that she was testifying under oath. The sources you are pointing out are not. This is a constant theme here: people who testify under oath are discarded for people who haven't or won't, because it fits the poster's political narrative.
In any situation in which one person faces a penalty for lying and the other doesn't, there should be a rebuttable presumption that the first is more likely (though not necessarily) to be telling the truth.
If the driver of the limo testifies under oath that it never happened, I would absolutely believe them over someone who heard the incident as a story from someone else.
That just makes sense.
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1 hour ago, B-Man said:
Peter Alexander
@NBCNews
Chief White House Correspondent
LOL !
This tells you all you need to know about how dumb these arguments are.
One person testifies under oath.
Another person challenges that but not only will not testify under oath but they wont even put their name to their statement.
That’s good enough for @B-Man! Priors are confirmed. So anonymous source outweighs sworn testimony. Even if the Secret Service has been cooperating with the investigation.
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5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
I see. And that was going to happen how exactly? Because Nancy was going to say “Well if Mike wants to delay it, I guess we have to!” ????
Trump, Giuliani, and Eastman wanted Pence to delay the certification and send the election back to the states.I agree that this is an insanely stupid idea that makes no sense, but it was the plan that the President of the United States was pushing.
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3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
So if I understand you correctly the master plan was to overturn the election, over throw the government and then hold onto power under the protection of an unarmed guy in a bear suit? If that was the plan then I agree with you…Trump’s a nutcase!
The plan was to have Mike Pence reject or delay certification of the election so that they would have more time to put pressure on the states to undo their results. -
1 minute ago, B-Man said:
Did they all drop their "arms" on the way to the capitol ?
😎
Donald Trump responds to Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony from today’s January 6 hearing
If she’s lying, he should testify to that under oath.-
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7 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:
Funny because I've heard Trumps speech at the ellipse and he asked/told exactly zero people to enter the Capitol.
Ray Epps asked hundreds if not thousands of people over two days to enter the Capitol. But thats just fine....
QuoteJust two days after the attack, when Mr. Epps saw himself on a list of suspects from Jan. 6, he called an F.B.I. tip line and told investigators that he had tried to calm Mr. Samsel down when they spoke, according to three people who have heard a recording of the call. Mr. Epps went on to say that he explained to Mr. Samsel that the police outside the building were merely doing their jobs, the people said.
Then in late January of last year, in an interview with the F.B.I., Mr. Samsel said much the same thing, telling investigators that a man he did not know came up to him at the barricades and suggested he relax, according to a recording of the interview obtained by The New York Times.
“He came up to me and he said, ‘Dude’ — his entire words were, ‘Relax, the cops are doing their job,’” Mr. Samsel said.-
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5 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:
Just like Ray Epps, right?
I must have missed his speech on the Ellipse.
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1 minute ago, Tiberius said:
Throws dishes like a spoiled little brat. A little monster
He almost certainly suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It’s not surprising he has the self control of a toddler. -
3 minutes ago, Doc said:
"My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw some AR-15s at Trump's J6 rally. I guess it's pretty serious."
It was a spontaenous protest over a...no, wait, it was a planned protest that, no, um, it was a spontaneous insurrection so they have no idea they needed extra security but it was planned because Trump was obviously in on it.
Lots of straw man happening there.There was an attack on the Capitol after a Trump rally nearby. Many of the people just followed the crowd. We also know that several groups actually planned to break in and occupy the building. We know that one of those groups was in contact with people in Trump’s circle. We do not know if Trump himself was involved in the planning.
We have a recording of Trump meeting all of the elements of violating Georgia election law.
We have sworn testimonial evidence and documentary evidence of Trump likely meeting the elements of Conspiracy to Commit Fraud Against the United States.
To your point, what will come of it? I am skeptical that the DoJ would charge a former president with a crime even if they had them dead to rights.
In the meantime, it’s at least nice to have a historical record, and hopefully we will at least get prosecutions of some of the people higher up the food chain.
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3 minutes ago, Doc said:
We shall see. And we'll see what comes of these other "crimes."
Agreed. I’m not overly optimistic about DoJ there. -
22 minutes ago, Doc said:
Yeah it’s a great question. Care to place a wager on if it ever comes out?But the shift to “other crimes” tells me what I need to know. And why I’m not high.
And yes, I knew the point you were trying to make. Here’s the thing though: you admitted you planned on robbing the bank.
Looking into one potential crime and finding various other crimes is not a “shift” -
1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:
Jan 6 distraction making sense now dupes
Yes the entire Jan 6 investigation was to cover up the sentencing of Maxwell.
You figured it out! Good job! You get a gold star!
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9 minutes ago, Doc said:
When do you suppose they're going to reveal that they have proof that Trump planned for people to enter the Capitol? Another month or so?
That’s a good question. I haven’t been able to follow today’s hearing closely but they have testimony that he wanted the metal detectors removed from the capital.
The point I was trying to make is that saying people should do something peacefully doesn’t negate all other actions taken to increase the likelihood of violence. People keep posting that quote like it’s a magic spell that prevents any culpability.
All of that being said, the attack on the Capitol is not the only crime that they are looking into. Even if they find no link between Trump and the attackers, they have already exposed that he committed other crimes in the lead up to Jan 6th.
7 minutes ago, T&C said:I haven't been following these... watching it now... is this a one sided affair or is there rebuttal at any point?
So far it’s just the people who will testify under oath.-
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39 minutes ago, DRsGhost said:
I planned to rob the bank with my buddies. And we went to the bank, and I said “go into the bank, peacefully” and then they went in and robbed it.
Therefore, I am not guilty of anything.
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17 hours ago, 716er said:
lil weird
Hey, don’t kink shame.-
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14 minutes ago, Doc said:
So...I guess the left is admitting that Trump had nothing to do with people breaking into the Capitol. Well, it was fun while it lasted...
What are you even talking about? Are you high?We don’t know if Trump or people around him coordinated with the Proud Boys or the other groups. That’s literally what we have an investigation for: to figure things out.
I don’t know if there is a link between them. But I do know that we now have plenty of evidence of Trump himself committing actual crimes. So there’s always that.
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23 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:
As opposed to the other extreme where a doctor murders a late term aborted child and dismembers the dead body with saws and knives in a scene akin to some sacrificial ritual then sells the body parts and organs to researchers and for other purposes. Anybody got a video of that they want to share on social media?
Late term abortions are generally people who wanted the pregnancy but find out news about the life of the fetus or the mother is in danger. They likely already have a name picked out and a nursery set up.A lot of these talking points make it sound like there are masses of people out there who go through all of the difficulties of pregnancy for 8-9 months and then suddenly decide on a whim they don’t want the baby. It doesn’t make any sense and the number of instances of this likely vanishingly small.
EDIT: This all comes down to how you define “late term.” Given the tone of the discussion about people aborting just before delivery, I was thinking it was ~30 weeks.
Apparently, 21 weeks is considered “late term” despite being before fetal viability. Abortions at 21 weeks represent just 1.3% of abortions but do not fit the scenario I outlined above.
Link: https://amp.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2019/mar/07/abortion-late-term-what-pregnancy-stage
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48 minutes ago, BillStime said:
I am a bit surprised it’s not someone higher up like Pat Cipollone given the urgency. But I’ve also seen reporting that she was facing credible threats so they wanted to lock her testimony in now.-
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1 hour ago, SCBills said:
Did you just hit me with a bunch of pre-Roe stories, as if medical advances/technology have remained stagnant in these past decades and the current laws will be exactly the same?
Only to follow those examples up with a bunch of stories from other countries?
I appreciate the links and effort, but that’s not a serious response.
The Texas stories are pretty recent and generally deal with their recent abortion law.What we are looking at is a debate about how competent state legislatures are at understanding the science and nuance around pregnancy. Given the examples and legislatures in general, it’s hard to feel optimistic about that.
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4 hours ago, SCBills said:
Can you give any examples of this actually happening, or are these just “proposed laws” of which people have only speculated upon the ramifications?Here are some examples based on current laws, laws pre-Roe, and laws in other countries to give an example of the potential dangers being faced here from lack of access to abortions or unclear / ambiguous abortion laws.
Connecticut (pre-Roe):
Woman dies from at-home abortion
QuoteMs. Santoro had been fearful of what her estranged and violent husband would do to her if he discovered she was pregnant with a lover’s child. Her boyfriend attempted to perform an abortion on Ms. Santoro, accidentally killing her in the process.
Washington (pre-Roe):
Woman dies from botched abortion
QuoteOn February 8, 1967, the body of 24-year-old Raisa Trytiak, a Seattle bank employee and former University of Washington student, was found in a garbage dump in Snohomish County. The young woman, who lived with her parents, had died from an embolism caused by a botched abortion. She had been six months pregnant.
A different woman dies from a botched abortion
QuoteOne month after Raisa Trytiak’s fatal abortion, Elizabeth Zack Staley died in Olympia. She was 22 years old and newly married. Her husband, Ronald Jae Staley, and a 19-year-old female friend evidently performed the botched surgery.
At least 13 women died from botched abortions in the Seattle area between 1945 and 1969
QuoteWe have scoured the Seattle Times and other newspapers and have found thirteen reported fatalities between 1945 and 1969. This is by no means a complete count. Newspapers reported only cases that came from the police blotter involving criminal charges and did not report all of them. Other cases never came to the attention of the police. Medical authorities underreported abortion deaths, missing some, reluctant to embarrass families by reporting others.
Texas:
Woman with ectopic pregnancy is turned down by doctors, drives 12 hours for treatment
QuoteThe patient ended up driving between 12 and 15 hours to a hospital in New Mexico, Lachenauer said, where she was able to terminate her pregnancy. That kind of delay could cost patients their lives, said Alan Peaceman, a maternal fetal medicine professor at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine who specializes in high-risk cases and fetal anomalies.
Patients who are miscarrying cannot get a pharmacy to fill their prescription
QuoteDr. Lauren Thaxton, an OB-GYN and assistant professor at the Dell Medical School at the University of Texas-Austin, has already heard about local patients who have been miscarrying, and couldn't get a pharmacy to fill their misoprostol prescription. "The pharmacy has said, 'We don't know whether or not you might be using this medication for the purposes of abortion,'" she said.
Pharmacy will no longer provide methotrexate
QuoteAt least several OB-GYNs in the Austin area received a letter from a pharmacy in late 2021 saying it would no longer fill the drug methotrexate in the case of ectopic pregnancy, citing the recent Texas laws, said Dr. Charlie Brown, an Austin-based obstetrician-gynecologist who provided a copy to KHN. Methotrexate also is listed in the Texas law passed last year.
Woman has a miscarriage on wedding day but has to travel out of state for treatment
QuoteIn the emergency room on their wedding night, Anna and Scott say the doctors appeared nervous and concerned but could do little to help them….
...But even through tears, Anna says she knows she was lucky to have several thousand dollars in savings to cover the cost — and to get an appointment in Colorado at all.
Despite the fetus being incompatible with life, woman has to leave the state for treatment
QuoteShe had flown to Kansas for an abortion that was outlawed in her home state, though she and her doctor considered it medically appropriate. Scans had shown the fetus inside her had a lethal form of skeletal dysplasia. If it survived childbirth, which was extremely unlikely, doctors expected the newborn to soon suffocate from under-developed lungs. The baby’s bones would be so brittle, they would break just from being held.
Malta:
QuoteA pregnant American woman who suffered an incomplete miscarriage while vacationing in Malta will be airlifted to a Spanish island on Thursday for a procedure to prevent infection because Maltese law prohibits abortion under any circumstances, the woman's partner said. Jay Weeldreyer told The Associated Press by phone from a hospital in the island nation that his partner, Andrea Prudente, is at risk of a life-threatening infection if the fetal tissue isn’t promptly removed.
Poland:
QuoteThe first foetus died in the womb on 23 December, but doctors refused to remove it, quoting the current abortion legislation, and Agnieszka’s family claim “her state quickly deteriorated”. The hospital waited until the heartbeat of the second twin also stopped a week later, and then waited a further two days before terminating the pregnancy on 31 December. Agnieszka died on 25 January after weeks of deteriorating health.
Quote“For now, because of the abortion law, I have to stay in bed and they can’t do anything,” Izabela – whose surname has not been made public– wrote in a text message to her mother after being admitted to a hospital in Pszczyna, south-western Poland. “Alternatively, they will wait for the baby to die or for something to start happening. If it doesn’t, then great, I can expect sepsis.” She died the next morning at 07:39am.
Ireland:
Woman dies in Ireland during miscarriage after doctors refused to perform an abortion
QuoteSavita Halappanavar's family said she asked several times for her pregnancy to be terminated because she had severe back pain and was miscarrying. Her husband told the BBC that it was refused because there was a foetal heartbeat. Ms Halappanavar's death, on 28 October, is the subject of two investigations.
Nicaragua:
Woman with ectopic pregnancy dies after treatment refused because of abortion ban
QuoteThe fertilised egg had implanted itself outside her womb and the embryo, at about six weeks old, could not survive but was threatening her life: Reyes was bleeding to death. Doctors delayed treatment, fearful of the repercussions of the ban on therapeutic abortions that had been introduced only months earlier
Dominican Republic:
Pregnant 16 year old with cancer dies after being denied treatment due to pregnancy
QuoteDoctors were hesitant to give her chemotherapy because such treatment could terminate the pregnancy – a violation of the Dominican Constitution, which bans abortion. Some 20 days after she was admitted to the hospital, she finally started receiving treatment. She died Friday, a hospital official said.
Generally:
Abortion laws complicate treatment for pregnant women with cancer
QuoteKatherine Van Loon, a specialist in gastrointestinal cancers at UCSF who helped write the 2020 review, said that pelvic radiation for rectal cancer is one such treatment that can’t safely be done on pregnant women because it would damage the fetus. “It puts us in a situation of withholding necessary treatments to preserve a mother’s health if we can’t terminate a pregnancy that is interfering with our ability to deliver curative therapy,” she said. Ideally, doctors treating pregnant cancer patients in situations like these would be able to discuss the risks and benefits of all medical options — terminating the pregnancy and starting treatment, or waiting to treat the cancer until later in the pregnancy or until the baby is born — and let the mother choose. But abortion restrictions curtail that choice.
Study finds states with more restrictive abortion laws had higher rates of maternal mortality
QuoteThe researchers found that states with the higher score of abortion policy composite index had a 7% increase in total maternal mortality compared with states with lower abortion policy composite index. Among individual abortion policies, states with a licensed physician requirement had a 51% higher total maternal mortality and a 35% higher maternal mortality (i.e. a death during pregnancy or within 42 days of being pregnant), and restrictions on state Medicaid funding for abortion was associated with a 29% higher total maternal mortality.
QuoteBanning abortion nationwide would lead to a 21% increase in the number of pregnancy-related deaths overall and a 33% increase among Black women, according to new CU Boulder research. Published Oct. 25 in the journal Demography, the study estimates only the portion of increased deaths that would be due to complications of being pregnant and of delivering a baby. Any increased death due to unsafe abortions or attempted abortions would be in addition to these estimates.
Avoiding these kinds of negative externalities requires very well informed legislatures who write tight laws with little to no ambiguity. Without any kinds of guardrails now, I sincerely doubt that is the world that women will find themselves in.
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Just now, FireChans said:
Where are you located?
Thankfully, I live in Chicago, where we have had little issue getting treatment for my wife’s five miscarriages.But the experience has made me really read up on miscarriages, the law, and abortion.
Her first miscarriage was ectopic and while I was in the waiting room while she got a D&C for a different miscarriage, I read an article about a proposed law in Ohio that would have required doctors to re-implant an ectopic pregnancy, a procedure that does not exist.
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Recap of 5th Jan 6 Hearing
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
Serious delay on getting this together due to being very busy. I doubt many people care about this anyway, but I think it helps to document the actual evidence being presented. Will watch today's hearing over the next couple days and try to get notes up quicker.
Despite the serious implications of this hearing, I don't have any takeaways other than the sheer scope of Gaetz's pardon request makes me wonder if he had *minor* concerns about legal exposure.
RECAP:
Eric Herschmann (WH Lawyer):
Jeffrey Rosen (Deputy AG and then Acting AG):
Richard Donoghue (Acting Deputy AG)
Steve Engel (Head of the OLC):
Cassidy Hutchinson (Mark Meadows' Aide):
Jeff Clark video testimony:
Sidney Powell video testimony:
Documents: