ChiGoose
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Posts posted by ChiGoose
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51 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:
I feel like lately, I’ve been smoking your arguments that major political players were unlikely to have these types of documents in their possession, and that Biden by refusing to comply with laws since the time he was vice president oops senator was fully cooperating with the DOJ.
Well, you’re very much misconstruing my arguments, but no surprises there. Just par for the course here on PPP.Biden having the documents is bad. But what separates his case from Trump’s is that when the documents were discovered, he immediately notified authorities and turned them in before launching a search to see if there were more. In fact, it appears that they even had the DoJ come in and conduct a search.
If it comes out through the investigation that Biden was aware of the documents the whole time, that changes things. But there’s no evidence of that so far, just rampant speculation.
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4 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:
This is all going to end with no charges of course.
it will instead end with Biden not allowed to run in 2024. Which he wasn't ever going to do anyway. It won't be because of anything else like dementia or his awful record.. In fact we will be reminded of the stellar Buden administration accomplishments....but unfortunately the classified docs took him down. The media will remind us of this all day, every day.
And if he can't run then guess who else can't?
Sacrificing the empty vessel that is Joe Biden to deep six any chance the great orange menace had.
Brilliant.
It will end with no charges for Biden.
There will be nothing to prevent Biden from running in 2024 if he wants to.
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7 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:
Well she did wipe that server, like with a cloth, so need for any extra scrutiny there.
Well, she had to hide the evidence that she murdered Seth Rich because he ate more than his share of children at the last voodoo cooking party where they planned how to hand the country over to China.
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24 minutes ago, B-Man said:
REPORT FROM THE BLUE ZONES:
Murder rates already soaring in six cities.
“Jacksonville, New Orleans, Minneapolis, the Las Vegas area, Washington, D.C. and Nashville all had more homicides or murders to start 2023 than during the same time last year.”
And last year wasn’t great. But wait, there’s a solution: “Experts advocated for reducing violent crime through strategic investments in community resources.”
https://hotair.com/headlines/2023/01/21/murder-rates-already-soaring-in-six-cities-n525319
Or, you know, put the violent criminals in jail and keep them there. Just spitballing here.
Or you know, actually try to prevent violent crime instead of enabling it and then acting surprised and trying to score political points over people losing their lives. Just spitballing here. -
1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:
Red lamented the treatment Crazy Train Dean received from the media and whomever. The reality is he blew up his own campaign and lacked the intestinal fortitude/character to get back in the game.
When comparing his tepid and impotent campaign and brand management to that of Donald Trump, one kicked establishment politics in the nuts and powered through media manipulation 1000x what Dean faced, the other moves to the scrap heap of history.
These are facts, sir.
Man, I gotta get my hands on whatever you’re smoking.-
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1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:
Well, at the risk of derailing this topic even further, put your political animus on hold for 30 seconds.
What Donald Trump accomplished was unprecedented in American politics. He was the butt of jokes and commentary throughout his campaign, and was subject to breathless reporting about ties to Russia, hookers and international espionage. He was up against the R establishment and the Bush dynasty, and when he dispatched them, he took on the hand-selected successor of a popular president and his anointed heir-apparent. He beat her and just about broke her emotionally in the process.
If Howard Dean had 10% of the situational awareness, brand management and ‘F off, I’m pushing forward” skills of DJT, we might be having a different conversation today.
What Donald Trump accomplished was destroying what little sanity remained in the GOP in self service to his ego.-
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All labor has dignity. But you are doing another thing. You are reminding not only Memphis, but you are reminding the nation, that it is a crime for people to live in this rich nation and receive starvation wages
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On 1/12/2023 at 7:14 AM, Chris farley said:
That will have immediate impact. No longer with parts of that state have gun violence (per 100K) at war zone levels. Willl be mayberry by next year.
It’s possible to improve on a problem without completely eradicating it.Until Indiana, Wisconsin, and Missouri decide they don’t want people being shot all the time, nothing Illinois does will end gun violence.
But that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth it to try to reduce the number of deaths where we can.
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2 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:
And you do you, pal.
Thanks! I’ll continue to stick to the facts and avoid jumping to conclusions instead of the simplest explanations. I know that makes me fairly unique here but at least it provides a break from the tin foil hats.
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3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:
Don’t forget about the boxes! Everything was in a box and not even someone as sharp as you knows what they have in boxes.
Just trying to illustrate that it’s possible to be in the same room as an object without knowing it’s there. But you do you, buddy. -
9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:
Your commitment to the cause is admirable, that should be acknowledged. Only a true believer can see multiple issues over a 7 year period and stick to the script. Documents in the office. Documents in the house. Documents in the garage. Documents, documents everywhere, and still who can say if he intended to possess anything?
Could be staffers who thought they were hiding Easter Eggs on the old timer.
#staytuned
Your commitment to jumping to conclusions not supported by the facts (or even logic) is admirable, that should be acknowledged.
But, at this stage, we don’t know that the documents were discovered earlier and ignored. You seem to be assuming that Biden was using these documents for years and then suddenly decided he wanted to be in trouble and come clean.
Maybe that’s the case and Biden secretly has a fetish for punishment, but it seems fairly unlikely to me. Why would he notify anyone if this was intentional? In that scenario, he’s been getting away with it for years, why stop now?Seems more likely they were put places they shouldn’t have but weren’t discovered until recently.
If Biden intentionally took the documents, he should be charged when he leaves office. But to say at this stage that is definitely what happened is making assumptions not supported by the public facts.
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8 minutes ago, B-Man said:
OOPS: WaPo Columnist Says the Quiet Part Out Loud About Biden’s Classified Doc Scandal. “
Joe Biden’s classified document scandal continues to rage, with legions of liberal pundits, legal scholars, and congressional Democrats making the most predictable and irrelevant excuses for why an aging, dementia-ridden old man can keep state secrets unsecured in his garage.
Biden got busted for having classified materials at multiple locations, including his residence in Wilmington, Delaware. Liberal America just got slapped in the face; the moral grandstanding that was pervasive and incessant after the FBI’s raid on Mar-a-Lago last summer is now looking increasingly ridiculous. . . .
The Left has no defense, so they’re going with their go-to line: it’s okay when we do it because we’re Democrats. That’s what Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart said on PBS Newshour, saying the Trump and Biden classified documents scandals are different because—in his eyes—they just are. Well, that settles it.”
They are different because of intent. Prosecutors can show intent in the Trump case, but it’s not clear yet that they can with Biden.That is obviously subject to change as the investigation continues but from what we know at this stage, that is the difference.
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5 hours ago, B-Man said:
.
This is legitimately very funny -
So the Libs are stealing our stoves and the M&M’s are too sexy. Or are they not sexy enough. I have trouble keeping up with the outrage of the week.
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44 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:
This is actually useful and interesting, thank you.
No problem. From what I can tell, you can avoid charges if the spillage was accidental and you return everything and cooperate immediately when it’s discovered.
If it’s intentional, you may be facing prosecution.
If it was originally accidental but you don’t immediately turn everything over and cooperate, they are going to take that as intent (as in the Gonzalez case)
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2 hours ago, JDHillFan said:
How many have you seen? It seems like you are claiming to be familiar with quite a few cases of unintentional spillage and follow on cooperation followed by Uncle Sam shrugging his shoulders and saying ok. Do you mind sharing a few samples from the “most cases you’ve seen”?
The issue is intent. If it is truly accidental, it's unlikely to be prosecuted. One way of avoiding the intent issue is that if you discover the documents, you immediately contact the authorities and hand them over. Here are some cases where people didn't do that:
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United States v. Gonzalez, 16 M.J. 428 (1983)
- Defendant inadvertently took two classified documents when visiting a friend in Alaska. He discovered them when he arrived, put them in a desk drawer to retrieve them later but forgot. The documents were later discovered by someone else who turned them over to the government.
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United States v. Kendra Kingsbury
- FBI agent took classified documents and stored them in her home, knowing this violated the law
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United States v. Ahmedelhadi Yassin Serageldin
- Contractor took documents home, altered the classification markings and lied when confronted about it
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United States v. Harold T. Martin III
- Contractor took classified documents knowing that he was not allowed to do so
In the first one, the guy is probably not indicted if he drops everything and returns the documents immediately when he discovers the problem. He doesn't, and then suffers the consequences.
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United States v. Gonzalez, 16 M.J. 428 (1983)
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7 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:
For sure. The Feds almost never get a conviction.
Data published by the Pew Research Center in 2019 highlighted how federal prosecutors have a 99.6% conviction rate. To put those numbers in perspective, U.S. Attorneys filed 79,704 cases in 2018. Of those, only 320 resulted in acquittals. https://www.doarlaw.com/blog/2021/04/what-you-should-know-about-the-federal-governments-conviction-rate/
When did I say the Feds never get a conviction? The Feds are generally conservative and only bring cases when they feel confident of a conviction. I simply said that in the specific instance of negligent spillage in which the responsible party is cooperating, a conviction would be tough.If there are a ton of cases that say otherwise, I’d be open to taking back my statement but most of the cases I’ve seen include some sort of intentionality and/or lack of cooperation.
6 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:A couple thoughts occur to me here.
Who’s responsible for oversight and ensuring laws are not violated? Is erroneous delegation an excuse to skirting laws dealing with confidential/top secret information?
It seems unlikely that team Biden would not know the law on this matter, assuming a staffer is responsible for the illegal activity, I wonder if they would face legal jeopardy?
Biden was pretty clear on whom he thought was responsible for files at Trump’s place. It’s weird that suddenly he feels differently when he’s in the mix.It’s going to be a tall task to work backwards through 7 or 8 years of Biden’s life to get to the bottom of all this. Prayers up to him and the “staffers” who hid the files on him.
I believe it would be who should have known. If you have professional staffers that routinely deal with classified docs and they didn’t follow the rules, then they could be in trouble. If it was some guy from a moving company who didn’t realize what he had, it’s unlikely they would be in much trouble.
If Biden himself knew, then he’ll be in trouble, too.
This is what we have a special counsel for, to figure out who knew what and when.
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5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
Nice try. You know the debate is far more complicated than that but you’re willing to accept that if someone from the steno pool wants a piece of paper back….she should get it. You don’t appear to be the least bit curious what these documents might show or why the former President’s lawyers may want him to retain them. Interesting, but all too expected.
It’s really not complicated at all. Neither Biden nor Trump had any right to those documents. What legal repercussions they might face depend on their cooperation with the investigations. From all accounts, Biden had been cooperating while Trump has not.
The contents of the documents have no bearing on whether or not they could keep them. They couldn’t.
I don’t know why Trump kept them. Speculation runs rampant from “because he liked having them” to selling the info to the Saudis. If I had to guess, I’d pick the former as much more likely than the latter.
3 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:So cooperating is not about actual crimes but making idiots in the public believe you are the good guy? To a prosecutor cooperating should only affect a sentence after gaining a conviction not influence whether to press charges.
In the very narrow situation of spillage, the main thing the government wants is to secure the documents and assess potential damage. So if the spillage was unintentional and those responsible cooperate, they likely won’t be prosecuted.
Prosecuting in those instances would likely backfire because securing a conviction would be unlikely and it would incentivize people to conceal future spillages to avoid prosecution.
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6 minutes ago, wnyguy said:
He's kept them for years already, sheesh.
The special counsel will have to determine if he knew they were there during that time.
I doubt the Vice President packs up everything himself. So if some staffer put them there and he didn’t know, then he’s not going to be charged with anything. If it turns out that he did know and didn’t do anything about it for years, then he could be in trouble.
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Just now, SoCal Deek said:
There have been countless interpretations by very informed people expressing their opinions on national television specifically relevant to the President's authority, etc here. The reason you cannot understand is because you are a partisan hack. (With all due respect.)
LOL! Gotcha. Not cooperating is secretly actually cooperating because somebody on the TV said so.
Very convincing!
I guess Biden is just a big dope for turning documents over. He should have just kept them and said he was cooperating anyway.
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12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
Did Trump have lawyers? Yes....check
Were Trump's lawyers cooperating? Yes....check
Next topic
How is refusing to comply and then lying cooperating?Like honestly, a lot of people here seem to think not doing what you’re supposed to do and then lying to law enforcement is the same as cooperating and I cannot understand how people reach that conclusion.
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35 minutes ago, Chris farley said:
Cooperating with investigators often incriminates yourself and provides evidence for said charges.
Doing so without a lawyer, for sure.
But if you are found to have classified documents you shouldn’t have and you wish to avoid charges, you hire a lawyer and you cooperate.
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17 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:
So no crime actually committed by Trump, as I said cooperating with prosecutors is only a sign of innocence to someone who has already made a decision about guilt.
Cooperating with investigators is how you avoid charges when you are found to have things you shouldn’t-
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4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:
The ultimate resolution of Mueller was no obstruction, and an AG stating emphatically that what happened in this absurd spectacle based on lies and innuendo was that what happened to Trump should never, ever happen to a president again.
This is absolutely false. Mueller specifically stated that Trump met the elements of obstruction multiple times but couldn’t be charged because he was president. He also stated that the proper remedy was impeachment.
Try reading the actual report instead of a summary that was so misleading that Mueller complained to Barr about it.
3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:THEY WERE IN BOXES!! Further illustrating your ignorance about classified info security. Carry on. 🤦
It’s bad that he had them! I’m just pointing out that one doesn’t automatically know everything that is on a room when they walk into it. I have boxes in my garage, I’m not 100% of everything that’s in them.3 minutes ago, Chris farley said:Hunter vacuumed the carpet and smoked parm Cheese in an effort to get a buzz.
could he have gotten his hands on them?
and countless other questions.
Questions that will be answered by the special counsel investigation.-
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Biden, A Good American President, Pilfers Classified Docs
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
I think it’s more likely that the spillage was accidental and only recently discovered than Biden taking them intentionally and then suddenly deciding he wanted to get in trouble and telling on himself.