Shaw66

Most people in this thread, including you, seem to agree that whatever anyone things of him, it looks like your combination of factors means he's gone. Maybe I should save it until after he's gone, but if we look back two years and think about what we expected of him the day the Bills signed Beasley and what the Bills got of him, it definitely was a great move by Beane. Beasley outperformed my expectations, for sure, and I doubt there are many people whose expectations were so high for him that he underperformed. He was worth the investment.

Yes, it's better to give up old talent too early than to keep it too long. And it's better to keep young talent too long than to give up on it too early. That's why Beas is going and Stevenson is staying. That philosophy is going to give you second thoughts sometimes, like if Beas wins a ring somewhere else next season, but more often than not, it's the right philosophy.

Thanks. That's a better informed statement of what I've been trying to say about things changing. Teams adjust, and what used to work doesn't necessarily work any longer. Players come and go, coaches come and go, and change happens. The Bills' passing game in 22 will be different from 21, and that's true whether Beasley stays or goes. And if he goes, the Bills' passing game will be better or worse, not so much because Beasley left as because it's a new season with new players, new coaches, and new challenges. McDermott's plan is to build and build and build. That necessarily means that there's always going to be some tearing down in order to build some more. Your core guys, you keep for as long as you can; they're your foundation. But the other guys get cleared out so more building can go on. Smoke, probably McKenzie, Beas, maybe Sanders. They aren't the core, and it seems the Bills and Cole have decided that it's the end of the road for Beas. It's all in the ordinary course of team management. Kyle Williams was the first. Sometime after they win it, McDermott will give credit to the players who came before. Williams will be on the top of the list, and I agree that Beasley certainly should be on it, too.

I don't underestimate his value, if you're talking about on-field value. Sure, he gets open, he fights, and he makes tough catches. He runs smart patterns, all of that. Love him. But the fact remains that the salary cap is an issue, and cap or not, passing attacks evolve. It appears the Bills are moving on from Beasley, for probably a variety of reasons. That doesn't mean they won't miss him; it's just another example of a favorite coaching phrase: Next man up.

I agree it's night and day. But somewhere, I think in this thread, I just posted that nobody's passing attack, and nobody's receiver room, stays the same for more than a year or two. It's a constant change, driven by new talent coming up, defenses catching up with what worked last year, and salary cap. So, sure, Davis isn't the same kind of possession receiver Beasley is. But Beasley didn't look nearly as automatic to me in 2021 as he seemed to be in 2020, and the stats seem to bear that out. His targets were up slightly, his receptions were the same, and his yards were way down. Allen's not stupid; if whatever it was that was working in 2020 was still working in 2021, we would have seen it. Part of the challenge of coaching in the NFL is that every season you need to find new things that work, with the players you have. Sure, Davis won't make all the catches on short slants Beasley did, but most successful passing teams don't have a Beasley. He's like Edelman was, only not quite as good. Most teams don't have a deadly short-pass slot receiver. Change is part of the game. Interesting comment. It could very well be that McD and Beas had a heart-to-heart and agreed that, given what's happened, he'd best move on. If they did, then I expect the Bills ask in a trade will be low. If Beas wants to go to a team in the NFC, especially, I wouldn't be surprised if it's for a 6th or 7th. Bills aren't going to screw him. Friction or not, they know the guy is a quality guy, and they will treat him right.

Read it. It's a study of throws that meet a minimum air yards distance, so no, there are no 5-yard screen passes in this data. One amazing thing is that Allen has the highest completion percentage, the highest accurate throw percentage, and the highest number of accurate throws that were incomplete (I'd guess some of those were throwing into double coverage). It looks like he was the best deep thrower by far, with only Stafford and maybe Burrow at least within range. Can't wait to see what it will be like when Allen gets good.

You know, I never paid a lot of attention to the off-season Beasley theater. I'd never thought of it as Beas trying to protect anyone, although the others did get cover from him, that's true. And given the kind of guy Beas seems to be, I can imagine him going to Brown and Davis and telling them to keep their heads down and their mouths shut. I never thought Beas was trying to start a movement; just more that felt he was being pressured to do things that should be exclusively his choice, and he disliked it so much he had to speak out. I thought he, too, should have kept his mouth shut, but I had to respect the sincerity of his stated position. He's an interesting guy. I loved him from the day after the first playoff loss to the Chiefs, when he was asked if the loss will motivate him in 2022. He said something like, "I don't need to lose football games to be motivated. I can't possibly be any more motivated than I already am."

The truth is that the league forces teams to reinvent their offense every year. If you bring this year the same stuff you brought last year, you're gonna get stopped. Bills aren't immune from that reality. The salary cap makes it doubly imperative to move on from the past, even the short-term past, and move on to something else you can make work. When you stop and think about, practically no teams have static receiver rooms for more than two seasons. Everyone is always bringing something new. It's an imperative that makes Beane's job so important, because he has to keep moving on and finding the something new that works for the coaches.

Bills were hoping Stevenson might flash, and maybe they think he still will. Point is, as you say, it's easier to flash early. All it takes is speed and the right mental approach in the player, and coaching. The Chiefs have shown that with Mahomes, Kelce and Hill, Reid can plug and play inexperienced speed and get good performance. Rams can too. Bucs. The truth is that most starters in the NFL are in danger of losing their jobs every year. There's always another guy coming along who isn't exactly the same but who brings value and costs less. It's a brutal business.

The guy has never played like Kupp. If he had that kind of talent, we would have seen it by now. Love him, great role player, but he is a role player. Some team that thinks they have a one-year window might bite, a team that sees him as the crucial final piece for the receiver room. But not a team that is building for the long term.

Especially with the success of recent speed guys like Chase, Lamb, and Jefferson. Bado said it in the Cooper thread: the .market on receivers is changing.

Yes, but it's a question of dollars. Moving on from Beas, giving Davis a bigger role and adding a new face can be just as effective, and will cost less or build better the future.

It's quite remarkable that he has a national franchise - they really do have the reputation as America's team, and they spend money like they're Texans. They have a platform from which star players like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin can build show business careers. You'd think anyone would want to play there. And yet, they're so badly managed that they continually to be unable to win when it counts.

Sorry, just saw this. Well, that certainly makes your point for you. I hadn't seen that before. And I'm not going to argue with you about it. Sure sounds like his heart's not in it. However, that's not what I see on the field. I don't recall any questions about his attitude coming out of college - he was a stud, period. And now that he's two years older, sees the market that Bado's talking about, he may be readjusting his perspective. John Brown chose Baltimore over Buffalo, then he saw Allen and moved to Buffalo a year later. Emmanuel Sanders did the same thing. Look at OBJ. He welcomed the move LA, because he could see the opportunity that situation presented - become number 2 to a high performing QB and number 1. Cooper could very well be thinking "put me on the side opposite Diggs with that guy throwing. Please, put me there." Maybe the weather is just that big a thing with him, and as I've said from the beginning, I don't see Cooper to Buffalo happening. I'm just saying that if Cooper has the attitude about the game that McDermott and Beane value, they would be thrilled to add him to the team. And Cooper's attitude may be different from what it was two years ago.

Interesting. I don't follow talent all that much, but my sense has been the same. It really helps to have a top-10 receiver, but actually there are very few who are going to be top-10 for years at a time. I mean, for example, that it's easy to see Diggs falling out of that category soon. Not predicting it, but if it happened no one would be that surprised. Look at OBJ. Talented as he is, I don't see anyone sinking big dollars in him again. And there always seems to be another one coming along, a guy who can be elite for you for three or four years. It's cost-over-replacement thing. It just doesn't cost that much to find a decent replacement for the guy with a big contract. Some team may make a mistake on Cooper and way overpay for him, but I get the sense that the number of teams that are willing to risk stupid money is shrinking. Cooper's agent certainly already has an idea of what the market is, and Cooper's $$$ expectation is reset, his interest in playing for a winner may go up. Davis? I don't disagree there, either, but Davis is the kind of talent who could put up a big year as his contract is expiring. I don't see him ever being an elite guy, but I wouldn't argue if you told me that when we look back from 2028, we'd recognize Davis to be as valuable a #2 receiver as Robert Woods has been. And Davis will recognize that part of his success is the QB who's throwing to him, and he will be reluctant to leave that.

I agree about the contract. As I said to Happy, I've not seen much to make me think he has a bad attitude. You know how lots of Bills players say how much they love playing for this team? How often do you hear players saying that about playing for the Raiders or the Cowboys? I've had the impression that his teams have given him plenty of reason to be unhappy. I have pretty much no expectation that he'll be in Buffalo, either because you and Happy are right about his attitude, or because he wants more money than Beane thinks it makes sense to pay. But if the Bills signed Cooper and let Sanders and Beasley go, I'd be excited. Single covered, Cooper can hurt the defense. He's a tough possession receiver, and he can get deep. Diggs is a different style receiver, and he's better - single covered, he'll hurt the defense, and he's a tough possession receiver, and he can get deep. I know I'm seeing Davis through the lens of one game, but he's a serious third option. Yes, those guys don't offer elite top-end speed, and almost every offense needs some serious speed threats. But all three can and do get deep when the defense tightens. I'm not saying that he'd be some incredible addition to the offense. If the Bills signed him, I wouldn't be as excited as when the Bills traded for Diggs. And I don't know the draft and free agent possibilities, and I don't know what the Bills are thinking about any of this, but if the Bills added Cooper to Diggs, Davis, and Knox, I'd view it as a good 2-3 year move.

I guess I've not followed him that closely to believe that his heart isn't in the game. My sense has been that he's been frustrated by the situations he's found himself in. In one fewer season than Evans, he's been targeted 250 fewer times. Maybe that's because his heart isn't in it, but maybe it's because he's played with second-string QBs, Jon Gruden didn't know what he was doing, and the Cowboys insisted on giving the ball to their overpaid running back. I don't know. One thing is certain, however. Beane and McDermott will know, and if you're right, the discussion about Cooper at One Bills Drive already has ended.

I think you could be wrong on both counts. Overrated? Guy's had five 100-yard seasons playing eight seasons for two dysfunctional franchises. He has excellent speed, size, hands, and attitude. He's a better, maybe much better version of Gabriel Davis. I'd take Mike Evans over Cooper, but he's in that class. Spend a lot of money? Well, we'll see. As someone said, it seems there will be a lot of free agent receivers out there, so it may be that no one will be willing to write a big check. We've seen it before, big-name free agents sitting out there for months after free agency begins. The Bills won't over pay for him, but who knows, Cooper may be one of those guys, like Sanders, who's looking to play with a great QB on a team that's not dysfunctional and that's serious about winning. It's not hard to imagine a passing attack with Diggs, Davis, and Cooper, (letting both Sanders and Beasley go). That's not that much different than Antonio Brown, Godwin, and Evans, minus the drama. It's a receiving corps that gives a new offensive coordinator a lot of options. I don't expect Cooper in Buffalo, but every year Beane does things I don't expect.

Watch the video of him taking a pass 80+ yards. Doesn't look at all like Tyreek Hill speed.

Have you never seen McDermott talking to players during the game? I have. Of course, coaches talk to their players. How many times have players made mistakes on important plays when their coach did NOT talk to them before the play? All the time. All the time. I'll repeat. There's no way, no way at all, for a coach to know which play is pivotal in a game and to know which player to talk to avoid a mistake. No way. McDermott called a routine play, and he has a coach who's responsible to deliver the play call to the 11 guys who will execute it. How was McDermott supposed to figure out that Bass might not be getting the message? I'll repeat: On the immediately preceding touchdown, Allen to Davis, the absolute most important play of the game to that point, did McDermott call timeout and remind Davis what his route was? Of course not. If Davis had run the wrong route, the Bills wouldn't have scored the go-ahead touchdown. Would you be criticizing McDermott for not reminding Davis?

Every once in a while I call up the replay of Mcgee's miracle kickoff return against the Saints. May be the greatest play in Bills history.

I'll be 90. Nurses will be the only thing I will dream about.

1. You've been a fan since 1959. I followed their first draft. 2. Your first Bills memory RIchie Lucas being drafted. Black and white striped socks on the Broncos at the first game in 1960. 3. One of your favorite Bills memories The '64 championship game. The '65 championship game. Ahmad Rashad on Monday night. Watching the comeback game. Whatever Josh Allen did last week. 4. Your favorite player of all time and your favorite player currently... Oh, man, come on. George Saimes Billy Shaw OJ Simpson Daryl Talley Andre Reed Ryan Fitzpatrick Josh Allen 5. Some of you guys have some awesome forum names. What does your forum name say about you? I picked it 20 years ago. I wanted to signify that I went back to the beginning, I wanted to honor the only Hall of Famer who played only in the NFL, and I wanted honor the temperament and work ethic he always showed.

Pretty fair summary, actually. A little overblown in the criticism, but it's hard to argue that it's undeserved.

I didn't say he was Belichick; I said he had the potential. Careers are long. Five seasons in, Belichick was 36-44. McDermott is 49-32. McDermott is going to get a lot better at his job, as did Belichick. There's a good chance that 15 years from now, people will be talking about Brady and Bill and Josh and Sean as being the two QB-coach combos that left everyone else in the dust.