Rochesterfan

Great - believe that if you want - I guess. I would believe you if this was your first TT post about this stuff, but considering that I showed how many posts you started about TT (and it has been brought up in this thread also) and not one of them objective and not one of them did you even consider the fact that your own bias could influence what you see or believe. Even in this post - people talk about the fact that there were still a bunch of issues over the middle and you act like you have the definitive research. This is 2 years of this and you were incorrect last offseason and you were shown to be incorrect this offseason. His agent had feelers out to teams and then he "decides" to take a huge pay cut in bot money, guaranteed money, and years, but that was not because he heard his true value - it was because he is a great guy that loves Buffalo. My mind is made up by what he does on the field and what the coaching staff and GM has stated he needs to improve on both last season and this season. He needs to improve - I am even open to believing that with a new and talented coaching staff - he can improve. I do not think he sucks - as I have stated many time - he was probably the best bet for this team for 2017, but not at the old contract - he just is not ever going to be a long term answer at the position and that is what we need to be successful. With the new contract it is fine and the Bills can move on after this year or next year. You on the other hand start thread after thread after thread trying to justify why he is a starter and this load of diaper material about his improvements. He is a starter because of his athletic ability and the fact that he took a huge page cut. The rest of the stuff is just filler that you posted to try to make yourself feel better.

If I remember correctly you were all over the work Roman was doing at the end of 2015. You must of made 7-8 posts before the start of last season talking exactly about the same stuff you had in this thread and the advancement TT made throughout the year and the way Roman was grooming him. I know you felt Lynn did a ton to help TT, but by the Pittsburgh game you were even ready to move on. It was not Lynn and play calling it was that TT was not good enough. Then you even went so far as to ask (in another TT thread you started) about what it would take in the last 4 games for people to get back on board. Once he lost in Pittsburgh and they were essentially eliminated - there should have been nothing that changes your opinion from ready to move on after Pittsburgh to the gushing you went to after Miami. It makes no sense to me that games against Cleveland and Miami would impact your decision so much after everything we have seen leading up to those 2 games. Look good for you - I am hoping having a real coaching staff and an actual OC that can call plays will make for an improvement, but I am not going so far as to look at anything TT has done in 2015 or 2016 and think it was good enough. He is the starting QB and the we will root for him all day and every day and I actually think with a new coaching staff the entire team has chance to improve and as to the things Taylor did that kept him around - those were not things done on the field - as other posters have pointed out - what kept TT in Buffalo for 2017 was a 10 million dollar pay cut and the ability to cut him after this year with a smaller cap hit and a void for years 3-5.

I believe I remember him repeatedly saying that TT would not be back on the original contract and that if they cut the contract he would be back. Look Crusher and you are on two opposite ends of a line with the truth planted firmly in between. TT does some good things and many things that he needs to improve. Those things that you and Thurm argue over and over about are prime examples - they are things that the GM, both former HCs and both former OC's said he needed to improve on and he did not. Now those things matter very little because we have a new staff and a new game plan. What do I expect - I think there are going to be plays where they roll TT out and he makes some plays, but there are also going to be way to many times that he struggles in the pocket. What I love about the deal is they have created a new lower priced 1 year deal and the ability if TT either improves or his athletic ability is good enough to push the offense they can bring him back for year 2 and work on a new contract. The fact that the contract automatically voids after year 2 means that no matter what this is a 1-2 year plan with the Bills looking to draft or develop for the future. Look I expected TT to be back and I am not surprised, but I am so glad they got the deal reduced significantly. He is an amazing athlete, but he is not a very good QB. What draws me to that conclusion is what happened after they eliminated Roman - Lynn came on the local radio stations and talked about how he was going to work week after week with TT and find and call plays that TT was comfortable with and what we saw was a change back to a huge percentage of sideline out patterns and comeback/stop routes with little Yards after Catch. Throws that a QB can make because he can see the WR is wide open. Roman was trying to grow and develop TT - you saw at at the end of 2015 with the patterns and throws after the Bills were eliminated. He was trying to open the offense up and in 2016 the offense did not function against Baltimore and although it produced against NYJ - it was enough that Rex moved on. The route tree and the throws were simplified and TT had some good games and some bad games, but nothing that screams long term starter. Exactly - this is the only reason he is here.

I think this should be part of your sig here, but you should give credit - LOL. I would be happy with the signing, but either way it is not the end of the world. He is a replacement piece for 2 other bodies that are gone. I think he has more talent than Hunter and can play ST as well as Easley - so it becomes a 2 for deal and I think he can help if/when Sammy misses games, but I do not think he would be the #2. I think they are still looking at the draft for that.

And how would he have done in the post season here. Would he have made a difference considering that he was playing with one of the top QBs of all time and he barely had any more catches - a few more yards and only 2 TDs. So you honestly believe that Hogan would of made the receiving corp not to be an embarrassment. He was and is a very mediocre player and for the Bills to over pay for him would of made no sense. He was only slight better in NE with perhaps the best QB of all time and Hogan is a perfect fit for that offense and was not a great fit in our offense. It makes sense for NE to pay for a receiver they will use and the Bills to be smart when they are going to be a run first offense.

Agreed and there was no reason for the Bills to value him as high. People can complain, but Hogan did not do anything more in NE than here, but they paid him significantly more than he was worth.

Exactly - nice to see some logic. People want to just blast Whaley for these decisions, but once again in this case - much like TT - He played it right. The Bills have a choice of matching the offer at a lower cost than the 2nd round tender and get him locked up for 2 years or if they decide he does not fit their new scheme - they have a chance to move on. Placing a 2nd round tender meant overpaying him for 1 year and then still having to negotiate a longer term deal if you want to keep him. Same thing with Gillislee - there are so many RBs on the market and in the draft that placing a higher tender was probably a waste of money. Give Doug some credit - he seems to have a clue what he is doing here.

Go back and read the quote that I was responding to. The guy asked how the tank was working for the Colts and I responded. I think it was a terrible example, but it was what the poster quoted. It was a good try on your part though.

I don't know, but the Colts have made the playoffs 3 of the 4 years that Luck has been healthy and gone as far as the championship game. Typically it takes a team like NE to beat them in the playoffs- so I would say they have been fairly successful. I would take that in a heart beat and if you eliminate Brady - they probably have at least 1 SB trip. Of course if you eliminated Brady - the Bills probably make the playoffs at least once in the last 17 years. They also fell into the situation and did not try to suck for Luck, but an injury to Manning made it possible. I am not a fan of tanking, but I also think that if you are not going to be good enough to win - a la the NYJs this year - you are better off looking at ways to eliminate your bad contracts and get your team situated for the future rather than just doing the same thing over and over.

Look - you Crusher and JM can all go round and round - it certainly happened enough everywhere else. You both have thoughts that are partially proven, but TT did say specifically when one of the reporters asked and TT had him repeat the question - he started to talk about "informal" discussions and then dropped that line and said I know what you are doing. To me that implied exactly what Crusher said about his agent had some discussions with other teams - be it tampering or not - he got a feeling for his market value. Point two in that was he specifically stated his decision to restructure was made 2 days ago - so although he had been meeting and talking with the coaching staff - something clicked 2 days ago that made him realize a restructure here was better than the open market. I think that had to do with two thing: money and team. I think he realized from his "informal" discussions that his value was less than he thought and he realized his best fit and chance to start was in Buffalo - so they blinked and he restructured to a significant pay decrease that pays him comparable to his passing position in the league. I think TT has a chance in this offense to put up some better numbers than in the previous offense, but I still think he is very limited in what he can do. This played out about as perfectly as it could for the Bills - they eliminated the signing bonus money that was causing the dead cap space - which was what many people disliked about the old contract and have created a year to year deal allowing his play to determine his length of time as the Bills starting QB rather than the money.

Agreed it fooled me at first also. I appreciate the number knowledge you have brought to theses FA threads - nice work!

Isn't that his old contract with the option bonus. Unless I'm missing something that doesn't look like the restructure, but maybe I'm missing it.

There are a couple of 26 page threads, but the one on TT started by a long time poster was not started with a complete rant and then ditch the thread. Are there a few Hot takes in it - Yep, but that was not the complete intent. The other thing - notice there are not 50 TT threads on the front page - they are all contained into the one thread. On the BBMB each poster with an opinion would start their own thread and the entire first page would be TT threads and they would all contradict each other and there would not be more than a few logical posts in each.

I will hold my opinion until we get some hard numbers, but much like the previous deal - I really want to see what dead cap it costs us if and when we move on. I love the lower cap hit in 2017, but it was never the cap hit that bothered me with the old contract - it was the dead cap money if we moved on. If some of that upfront money moved to later in the deal and we can step away without having paid it so it never hits the cap - then KUDOS to Whaley and the team. I anticipated that TT would be a bridge and on the old deal - I thought we had 3 years minimum before the dead cap made sense to part ways. We will see, but I think if they can get it to a year by year thing with less dead money - I would be thrilled. I am really starting to look forward to 2017 - A new HC and a New Offense that I think will fit our team better and a return to the defense that we dominated a few years ago. I know the schedule has a chance to be brutal, but I am loving this.

I hope so - that would make things so much better around here. This is what the problem with the other board was. Hot takes and run - just to get a reaction and stir up the posters.

Haven't seen many posts on here that are just a hot take mess, but I think this falls in that category. They kept Doug Whaley and let him actually do his job and select the Head Coaching candidates and then you are surprised they worked together to decide on TT. I just do not get some takes.

Saw that afterwards - thanks - I think that works for me!

I don't hate this - hope the money is right. I expect him to be the "receiving" FB and probably a special teams and short yardage running back. As he was released - he also should not count against our FA signings - potentially a good sign. I will give Whaley props on this and hope it works out. Bringing in guys the coach wants - another good sign.

Honestly - that is the reason for the Bill's being split I believe. If you sign the extension - it is at minimum for 2, but more likely 3 years before you can move on. I think TT has the potential to be a good fit in this offense, but with his limitations- he could also struggle and if you go all in and sign the extension- I personally believe it changes the Bills thought process on drafting a QB. Therefore this decision has long range impact - so the Bills are going to give it time and see if anything frees up that gives them a chance at comparable play for less money and if not then TT will be back. I think they are playing it right.

Thank God - another huge positive here.

I agree - seems a great fit and has the experience. Will see what the cost is, but I hope it works out.

I agree - I think this defense is made for a rotation of Washington, Dareus, and Williams inside. I think Shaq Lawson and Hughes on the outside as rush DEs will also bring the pressure. I am a bit worried about depth, but I think the 4-3 is the correct defensive fit for the D-Line and if we can get some help at LB via FA or Draft - I think this Defense will come back around pretty quick. I thought the exact same thing - I know they were Rex guys, but I did not think they fitted his defense as much as the 4-3 under Schwartz.

I was thinking about Seymour becoming the slot guy if they fill Gilmore's position on the outside. If not then I think Seymour stays outside and they need to fill the slot with a FA or a draft pick.

Took some time to see what places people were migrating to. Starting to feel like home.

Excellent - I agree totally. NRC is a player with a ton of heart and showed some nice blitz tendencies, but he also struggled with his size and with the new scheme - I think the slot corner and the safety will be coming up in run support more than we saw with Rex.