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Boatdrinks

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    Definition of a #1 receiver

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

    Yards Per Target (YPT) is a good barometer IMO. You want a guy with a YPT over 8.5 at least (the higher the better but anything over 10 is elite) while eating up a lot of targets. Unfortunately, Diggs ate up a lot of targets, 160 or so, and had a YPT of like 7.5, but even worse, that was his YPT for the season. He was far worse down the stretch of the regular season with a YPT in the 5's. And in the two post season games his YPT was below 5. 

     

    Now, in both 2020 and 2022 Diggs had a YPT over 9 for the season. 

     

    What would have been your opinion of Diggs this last year as a #1 WR? He certainly looked the part in terms of both volume and production the first half of the season. But the second half of the season he was simply a guy getting a more targets than everyone else but not producing. 

    I’d probably call him a #1 receiver, but that opinion is colored by fandom. Greg Cosell said his film study indicated that Diggs is no longer a #1 WR in the league , even though he was the Bills # 1. The draft compensation was also indicative of his value around the NFL. In reality , I’d have to say he probably isn’t a # 1 anymore , but as fans we get attached to these players. 

    • Like (+1) 1

    Beane on WR "We worked out a guy today we are going to end up signing"

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

    Not blaming Beane because they would prolly have gotten him anyway but Worthy is a good get for KC. I see Worthy as a guy who is a better receiver than he is often given credit for and if there is anyone who can develop him its Andy Reid. 

    Sure , any offensive player could be a good get for KC. They’re going to draft somebody so worrying about it is a fools errand. 

    Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

    Prior to the 2017 draft, Samuel blazed a 4.31 in the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine which led many to believe he'd be a home run hitter in the NFL, but that never really materialized. His career yards per reception is 10.7, not what you would expect from someone with his speed.

    He’s pretty much played with scrap heap QBs though. I’m interested to see how he’s used and if his numbers improve. 

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    • Thank you (+1) 1

    Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

    I think this was Coleman v Mitchell.  Both young with size similar production.  They went with the human Coleman.  They work hard on both and and like Coleman. He comes off as a star at his presser.  I was not a Coleman.  More I look into it more I like it.  
     

    Brady comes from the Payton system.  Made Colston and Thomas into monsters.  I see Coleman doing some of that.  I think his fluidity translates into becoming a polished route runner too.  He does that he could be the total package at wr.  

    Agree on Coleman v Mitchell. When it was apparent the Bills would pick at 33 ( probably got offers to move down again ) I thought Mitchell would and should be the selection. Was definitely surprised it was Coleman, but I’m warming up to the pick for sure. Definitely rooting for this kid. 

    • Like (+1) 3

    Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, 90sBills said:


    Bills coveted Pearsall? I don’t think that’s true. Beane probably thought it was a great opportunity to gain draft capital (or move up in later rounds in this case) by sliding down and still get a receiver they liked. It’s a good trade for both sides in that regard. The optics is bad because it’s KC and we’ll be reminded every time they play each other. 

    It was a tongue in cheek remark on my part. Anyway, you can’t worry about what another team is doing. Or “optics” for that matter. That’s emotional stuff that fans think about, not GMs. 

    • Agree 1

    Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, FireChans said:

    Were you? My contention is that we have no idea how close or far away Worthy was ranked in regards to Coleman. Because they didn’t choose between Worthy or Coleman, like they did Coleman and McConkey.

     

    Otherwise, I could argue they ranked Coleman higher that Odunze. They picked Coleman and didn’t make a move for Odunze after all

    I’m sure they had Odunze higher. The cost to move into a spot to get him would have been very high. Higher than they could do most likely. They did choose between Worthy and everyone else - they made the trade. They obviously didn’t care if he was gone . The chiefs needed WRs and love their fast guys. Fans know this. The Bills and Beane know it too. The bottom line is they didn’t care who was selected there. 

    Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, FireChans said:

    Because they didn’t want Worthy at 28 doesn’t mean they wouldn’t take him at 33.

     

    Because they clearly didn’t want Coleman at 28. And they did take him at 33. 
     

    This is obvious logic.

    So you think they would trade with a team and cross their fingers that the player they coveted so much wouldn’t be selected ? Lol absolutely ridiculous. If they just had to have Worthy, they don’t make a trade there. It can’t be more obvious. 

    • Agree 1

    Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, FireChans said:

    How do you know they didn’t have early second round grades on Coleman AND Worthy and didn’t want to take either at 28?

     

    you don’t.

    They obviously didn’t have “ a guy” at 28 , so they traded back. If they really wanted Worthy at that spot, they don’t make the trade. This is pretty obvious, as is the fact they didn’t care what player KC wanted to take. Implying otherwise ( as these hot takes are ) is pure folly. I don’t “ know” that the Bills didn’t want a 160 lb WR , but it doesn’t appear they were very interested. 

    • Agree 1

    Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    2 hours ago, FireChans said:

    They may have had a higher grade on Worthy, but not first round grade. Traded back, and he’s gone. 
     

    KC didn’t tell them who they were going for lol

    So they got snookered out of Worthy ? Lol okay , they had no idea Andy Reid might want a WR . Fans of course knew this , however. Pure nonsense ! The Bills didn’t want Worthy, and didn’t care who the Chiefs were going to take. They didn’t have “ a guy” at that spot - hence the trade. These narratives are just plain dumb. As BB said, you do what’s best for your team and don’t worry about what another franchise is doing. 

    Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    The Bills didn’t want that player. If they did they stay put and make the pick. Tyreek Hill 2.0 ? Lol I don’t think it’s that easy to find. Lots of small fast WRs don’t end up being Hill. Pretty dumb take, really. The Bills got a free pick for not drafting a player they weren’t taking anyway. No way to know, but good chance he’s there anyway. Could have made a trade to jump ahead of SF if they got nervous. They probably get him regardless and any “ controversy” is completely manufactured. 

    Speed: I do the math here

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    6 hours ago, PayDaBill$ said:

    A lot of other factors come into play, running 40 yds in a straight line isn’t quite the same with gear on, running routes and tracking the ball. It’s just another athleticism metric.


    from a nbcsprts.com article in March.

     

     

    “Timing of players at the Scouting Combine isn’t just done with stopwatches. It’s also done with chips worn by every player, that tracking their speed during every drill. And last year, that player tracking data showed off the talents of Puka Nacua, a relatively unknown receiver out of BYU who went from fifth-round pick of the Rams to the most productive rookie receiver in NFL history.

    Nacua wasn’t great in the traditional tests of athleticism that the NFL has relied on for decades, recording a 4.57-second 40-yard dash. But the player tracking data showed he was the fastest receiver at last year’s Combine in running through the gauntlet drill, in which a receiver runs across the field and catches seven passes in rapid succession. According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Nacua reached the fastest speed of any wide receiver during last year’s gauntlet drill at 20.06 mph. That tipped teams off that Nacua plays faster than he runs, something that Nacua proved in his rookie year.

    This year, Florida State wide receiver Keon Coleman was similar to Nacua: Coleman ran a disappointing 40 time of 4.61 seconds, but he reached the fastest speed in the gauntlet drill, topping out at 20.36 mph — even faster than Nacua last year. Coleman also reached the second-fastest speed of any wide receiver in his group while running a go route, reaching 21.71 mph.

    The player tracking data is new, and there’s not a long history of being able to study how well it correlates to NFL success. But it may prove that players who show elite speed during the on-field drills that more closely approximate what they do on a football field prove to be better players than the ones who run the fastest in a straight line for 40 yards.

    In hindsight, teams wish they had paid more attention to Nacua’s player tracking data than to his stopwatch time. Coleman will hope teams remember that during this year’s draft.”


    He’s not SLOW …. He has athleticism & speed in the context of the game.

    So Bills are actually at the cutting edge of evaluating here. INteresting. 

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