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oldmanfan

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    Josh Working With WR’s Beyond OTAs/Camp

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

    Honest question? Do people really think this matters? Josh tossing the ball around a HS field for a couple hours one weekend this summer. I mean it can't hurt but seriously how much can it possibly matter.

     

    You think in the KC game they said on the sideline remember that out pattern you threw me on the Lockport Lions field in June? Let's do that again!

    Well, let’s see. 
     

    1.  This is how we want out patterns run.  
    2.  Let’s go over options when we run this particular set.

    3.  Let’s talk about how we’re going to react when situation X, Y, or Z comes up.


    And so on.

    And so on.

    And so on.

     

     

    The "who I would've drafted instead" re-draft, 2024 edition. Are you smarter than the GM?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

    hahaha.  except NFL drafting is hardly a science. They've been screwing it up for so long, despite better data.  See EJ, Mike Williams, Elam, Basham, Brady, Purdy, etc...

    When you know you don't have access to the right data, you have to employ other strategies besides pure trust in your analysis. 

    Like your draft better.  I wouldn't have gone McConkey (another slot) at 33 except that you were committed to adding an X in Rd 3.

     

    You can say the same of every team.  

    • Like (+1) 1

    The "who I would've drafted instead" re-draft, 2024 edition. Are you smarter than the GM?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, FireChans said:

    Hilarious. I’ve been begging to draft a WR for 3 years. I’m on record this off-season debating hard against taking Coleman with @Alphadawg7 and @HappyDays predraft. 
     

    I actually have courage in my convictions, rather than saying our WR room is solved by Hamler (who cannot stay healthy at the NFL this far) and has 12 rec in 3 seasons combined and Shorter, an unproductive college WR who was a stashed fifth rounder last year. 
     

    Your analysis is post-hoc to a T. The moves we did were great because we did them. No one was arguing Shorter and Hamler solved our problems 4 days ago lol

    So they drafted one this year.  Be happy.

    • Eyeroll 1

    The "who I would've drafted instead" re-draft, 2024 edition. Are you smarter than the GM?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, FireChans said:

    Hamler? The guy who caught 12 balls in the last 3 years?

     

    Yeah, I think there’s a chance Beane could’ve found a guy to do better than that lmao

    Because he was injured.  Let’s see him healthy.  
     

    We get you.  If they had taken 3 WRs you be on here complaining we did nothing to fortify other areas.  Or if they had taken say Leggette you’d be screaming they should have taken Coleman.  And so on.

    • Like (+1) 1

    Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Back2Buff said:

     

    A coach can't fix his DNA.  You think a coach gave Hill his abilities?  You are both with these things.

    I teach physiology and actually with training you can gain some conversion of slow twitch to fast twitch fibers and vice versa.  But coaching will help him clear defenses when getting off the lOS, for example.  How to shield guys when the ball is in the air.  And so on.

    • Like (+1) 4

    Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

    My biggest issue with this pick is he doesn't fit the type of WR Allen will throw to. 

     

    Keon is never going to get separation, he just won't.  He isn't twitchy enough to do so.  He won't be able to learn it and it's not coming with more reps.  It's never going to be there.

     

    Will Allen throw to a guy that is considered covered?  It's going to take throwing with anticipation  because the ball needs to be high before the defender cant get his position or head around. 

     

    Allen has never shown the desire to do either of these things on a consistent basis.  He would rather run around and wait for a guy to get opened, rather that reading the play and throwing it before guys get separation.

     

    It's just a terrible fit.  His ability to win is also going to come from the slot, so now we have ANOTHER slot guy.

    Never say never.  Let’s see what happens when this 20 year old kid gets NFL coaching.  

    • Like (+1) 3
    • Agree 1

    Logic's Buffalo Bills Draft Review -- The more things change, the more they stay the same

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    9 hours ago, jkeerie said:

    Logic...I appreciate your feelings on this.  In truth, I was disappointed in this year's draft, but mainly because of who we drafted with our last 3 picks and because we only drafted one receiver.

    1.  Keon Coleman was not my first choice of receiver, but in truth, outside of the 40 time, Keon Coleman is the closest to the top 4 receivers in this draft.  Had he run a fast 40 at the combine, he would have been a top 10 pick.  Coleman doesn't need separation.  Any ball thrown near him, he will come down with .  He won't be man-handled by defensive backs (think Jets and Chiefs).   When I think of how many times Bills receivers did NOT come down with contested balls, I understand why the Bills focused on a player of Coleman's stature and ability.  So...don't be so quick to dismiss Coleman.

     

    2.  Cole Bishop was the safety I expected the Bills to draft and we did.  He will be solid, providing the abilities and leadership and smarts we're used to.

     

    3.  Carter...just as you said.  He'll be a solid rotational DT and when I heard his presser, he reminded me so much of Lorenzo Alexander.  He'll be a strong leader on this team.

     

    4.  Ray Davis.  We knew we were going to draft a RB.  Daniel Jermiah loved the pick, saying he was his 3rd best receiver in the draft.  Great running the football and out of the backfield.  I nice compliment to Cook.

     

    5.  Sedrick VP.  We needed a center and we got a good one with a lot of experience in Sedrick.  The competition he has faced has been among the best, so I expect him to work his way into a starting role sooner rather than later.

     

    5.  Ulofoshio, LB.  I expected the Bills to draft a LB at some point given that we were on our 4th string by the playoffs.  In truth, I don't know much about EU, but the ESPN and NFL pundits seemed to like the pick, saying he was one of the most impactful LBs in the draft.  So...we'll see.  I won't dismiss him just because I am unfamiliar.

     

    5.  Javon Solomon.  We needed an Edge and got a good one according to the ESPN and NFL Network guys.  I think he may work his way into the rotation.  I'm optimistic.

     

    The remaining picks are where my disappointment stems from.  I would have preferred a second WR especially since the Bills spent so much time evaluating WRs.

     

    6.  Tylan Grable.  I expected the Bills to draft an OT.  It's an annual tradition with them.  According to Beane, they liked his traits and sent Kromer down to work him out and evaluate him.  So they see the potential.  He's played both on the left and right side at tackle as well as right guard.  Since VanDemark does not seem to play well on the right side, they likely want to groom another prospect as backup.  

     

    6.  Daquan Hardy, CB.  See above.  It's an annual tradition.  Being a Penn State alum and watching a lot of PSU football, I've been critical of their corners.  In years past, if they weren't giving up big plays, they were committing PI.  They were better in 2023.  He'll be good on ST and if he can develop into a backup nickel, I'm good.

     

    7.  Travis Clayton.  He has potential albeit he is a project.  However, the upside is the roster exemption for international players.  The Bills can keep 17 on the practice squad as opposed to just 16.  

     

    In this draft, the Bills filled a lot of needs.  The veterans they brought in were only signed to one year deals for the most part, so if these rookies can develop there will be spots for them.     So I'm not so down on this draft based on what I've watched throughout the college season.  I'm hoping KJ Hamler can stay healthy and truly live up to the potential he displayed at Penn State and become that deep threat the Bills could use.  He didn't show much at Denver due to health and QB play.  We'll see what UDFA's are brought in as well, and though Beane did say there's no trade in the works for a veteran, he did not rule out bringing in veteran help at the WR position. 

     

    My two cents. 

     

     

    Let me just comment on your desire for drafting a second WR in the later rounds, because that seems to be a criticism many have made.  I would argue we already had done that on the current roster.  We have Shorter from last year who never got a real chance due to injury.  We have Hamler who could be a 4th guy if he can get past injury.  Hollins and  Isabella.  We have a number of guys already in the roster who fit the third round level pick.  
     

    The Bills have the luxury that we as fans don’t have in that they can watch a guy like Shorter in practice, the film and weight rooms, etc.  I think that’s what Beane meant when he said they were OK with the WR room.

     

    I’m reminded this time last year when Edmunds had left and there was panic in the Mafia.  Beane said that they felt they were OK with what they had, and he was right.  Bernard stepped in and had a great year.  I suspect that the 4th WR is sitting on the roster right now.  Not that I would argue with getting someone like a Sutton or OBJ once Tre’s cap stuff comes off the books.  But I’ve grown to believe Beane when he says stuff, and he’s said not to expect a trade anytime soon.

    • Like (+1) 1

    Did we do enough at wide receiver?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    I've seen some folks talk about how we were should have doubled up on WR in the draft, got another guy say somewhere in rounds 3-7.  But we have two guys on the roster right now that fit that description, Hamler and Shorter.  Hamler of course has to get over his injury history, and Shorter never really got going last year.  So we kind of already have done what some wanted done yesterday.

    • Like (+1) 1

    If you’re upset about the WR room - BLAME DIGGS

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

    For the record, I’m not upset about the WR room.  
     

     

     

    The vision Beane had for this offense in 2024 simplified:

     

    Diggs

    Coleman

    Shakir 

    Samuel 

     

     

    Then add all our draft picks except the Duke DT and you’d have our team.  Pretty dang good.  
     

     

    But this organization was thrown into mini turmoil bc of Stefon Diggs.  Period.  If your take is “Beane has neglected WR and this is what happens” you’re just wrong.  
     

    Diggs was supposed to give us 2024 and 2025.  
     

    He quit (as we know now) at the end of 2022 and throughout 2023.   
     

     


    I refuse to trash Beane over the WR room that was supposed to include Stefon in the plan until he tapped out and quit.   
     

    Quite frankly, I’m sick of the fan base rushing to defend Diggs over the GM that oversaw the construction of this perennial SB contenders roster.  
     

    It’s embarrassing. 
     


    I’ll be rooting for Coleman and Shakir harder than I’ve rooted for 2 Bills WRs.  And if we need more ammo I trust Beane, whose cap is all screwed up this year bc of Stefon, will find more ammo.     
     


    Go Bills!

    None of us really know what went on.  But I think it’s a fair assumption that Diggs doesn’t get traded unless Josh was on board.

    • Agree 2

    First look at Bills 2024 roster

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

    Our draft is over, so here is my first look at 2024 roster. I included 9 rookies, I guess all of them have a good chance. I know a lot will change; this is just a projection for fun/discussion.

     

    51 players already on the roster. I am pretty sure we add veteran WR through FA or trade, and I also think we will sign some cheap vet CB. I listed some other relevant players who did not make it.

     

    What do you guys think? Rookies are in green.

     

    Offense (25)

    QB: Allen, Trubisky (2)

    OT: Dawkins, Brown, Van Demark, Collins, Grable (5)

    IOL: McGovern, Torrence, Edwards, Van Pran, Anderson (5)

    WR: Coleman, Samuel, Shakir, FA/trade, Hollins, Shorter (6)

    TE: Kincaid, Knox, Morris, Gilliam (4)

    RB: Cook, Davis, Johnson (3)

     

    Not included – Doyle, Clapp, Clayton, Hamler, Isabella

     

    Defense (25)

    DE: Miller, Rousseau, Epenesa, Solomon, Jonathan (5)

    DT: Oliver, Jones, Carter, Johnson (4)

    LB: Milano, Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Spector, Morrow (6)

    CB: Douglas, Benford, Elam, Johnson, Hardy, FA (6)

    S: Bishop, Edwards, Rapp, Lewis (4)

     

    Not included – Toohill, Williams, Ankou, Hamlin, Ingram

     

    ST: Bass, Martin, Ferguson (3)

    One correction.  Haack is punter and might benefit Bass as his holder

    Did we do enough at wide receiver?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

    Anyone who believes the WR is in better shape now than it was last season is lying to themselves.

     

    That being said, a veteran Z WR add either by trade or signing feels needed. Even then it’s still sketchy unless it’s a big name.

    It depends on what one thinks of Diggs the second half of last year.  He fell off a lot.

     

    I expect a move when Tre’s $$ frees up after June 1.  There’s a lot of disgruntled veteran WRs out there.

    Coleman = Benjamin, Davis = Moss - Beane players

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by oldmanfan

    5 minutes ago, mrags said:

    Again… why are you bringing up worthy? What does he have to do with it? I never once said we should even take worthy. I simply said we need more speed on this team. Hell, even Beane and McD admit it. Literally every season at the end of the season pressers. And they say they’re going to get faster and more explosive in the offseason. Literally EVERY SINGLE YEAR. And every single year we get to this point and wonder where that speed is. If they didn’t think we needed it, they wouldn’t say it. 
     

    and no. Rushing yards do not count as far as when I’m talking about a WR. We have RBs in the team. A pretty good one in cook. And seem to draft one in the 3rd round like every single year. Only to let them go to another team in 2 years. See Singletary, and Moss. And replace them every single year. 
     

    we also have a QB that has almost the most rushing TDs in the history of the league at the QB position.

     

    How about we put some stock into guys that can actually catch the ball and get some receiving yards. we haven’t drafted one ever under this coaching staff. Davis was barely above average. 
     

    We traded for diggs

    brown was a FA

    bessely was a FA

    sanders was a FA

     

    anyone else that you want to point to is nothing special at least to this pointing their careers. Time will tell on Shakir but as of right now, you cannot claim him yet 

    They said they want guys that are more explosive.  That does not necessarily mean a certain 40 time.  Would the one metric Coleman aced make him explosive?  The safety they drafted is supposed good on blowing things up in the box.  Explisive?  Samuel is pretty fast by your metric.  Explosive?

     

    it would be easier if you would just be honest and say you would have disagreed with anything they had done early in the draft.  
     

    One more thing.  You want someone who can actually catch a football?  How many drops did Coleman have in college?

    Coleman = Benjamin, Davis = Moss - Beane players

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 hour ago, mrags said:

    I’d like to pay attention to receiving yards. I don’t give a crap about him rushing the ball. He had 851 receiving yards. And it was by far his best he’s ever had 

    Rushing yards don’t count, after all.  Maybe they should change the rules and make them worth half of receiving yards.  
     

    If this Worthy kid everyone is crying about scores a TD on a jet sweep we’ll just ignore it based on your advice.

    Did we do enough at wide receiver?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

    No.  Granted they can still try to do something before the season starts but this draft was a huge missed opportunity for a front office that ALWAYS talks itself into addressing offense some future year.  Always.  These guys have rules in their heads.  

    They took a WR, RB, C , and several linemen.  They drafted a TE that looks really good and a starting G last year.  Starting RB the year before.

    • Like (+1) 2
    • Dislike 1

    Speed: I do the math here

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    21 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

    I think that's the mistake people are making. He's not a top WR. He will be our #3 guy this year or #4 if you count Kincaid. I think his ceiling is a better Gabe Davis hopefully by next year. We still need a #1 guy

    Why?  If Kincaid is the primary guy why is a #1 essential?  It seems Brady wants to mix run and pass and spread the ball around in the pass game.  Not that I’d turn down say a Chase or Jefferson but is it essential?  
     

    For that matter how do we define a #1 WR?  Amount of double teams?  What metric?

    25 minutes ago, Billl said:

    Coleman’s 10 yard split was .05 seconds slower than Worthy’s.  That’s half a yard difference.  It doesn’t take a 40 yard go route for that difference in speed to manifest itself into something important.

    Someone referred above to Coleman’s top speed being second of all tested?  Would that imply he catches up?

    Speed: I do the math here

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

    You didn't need to

     

    Vast majority of football fans understand the difference between a guy who runs a 4.2 vs a 4.6

    Just wanted to put numbers to it.  So it’s several yards over a 40 yard sprint.  The question I’d like to get data on is how often a dead sprint against another guy happens in an NFL game.

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