oldmanfan
-
Posts
13,952 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Gallery
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by oldmanfan
-
-
Tasker
Pike
McGee
Moorman
-
1
-
-
Ernie Warlick. Biggest hands I have ever seen.
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, BearNorth said:
Actually the WR group was very stacked. Frank Lewis was next after Lee Evans, followed by Elbert Dubenion, Bob Chandler, Stevie Johnson, and then Butler. Yeah that D Backfield of my youth was special.
Always loved Bobby Chandler! And Duby of course.
-
1
-
-
16 hours ago, BearNorth said:
I went through my data [mainly PFR] and came up with the following All-Time Bills 22 + Kicker & Punter.
QB Josh Allen
RB OJ Simpson
WR Andre Reed
WR Eric Moulds
WR Lee Evans
TE Pete Metzelaars
T Dion Dawkins
T House Ballard
G Billy Shaw
G Ruben Brown
C Kent Hull
DE Bruce Smith
DT Tom Sestak
DT Ted Washington
DE Ron McDole
LB Mike Stratton
LB London Fletcher
LB Cornelius Bennett
CB Butch Byrd
CB Robert James
S George Saimes
S Tony Greene
K Steve Christie
P Paul Maguire
It should be noted that Jim Kelly, Thurman, and Fred Smerlas are equally worthy of a spot, those positions were very close.
As an old timer I like your list. I’d make a couple suggestions. I’d have Jerry Butler instead of Evans. I could argue for Joe D vs. Brown at G, but Brown was terrific. But love you D backfield.
-
28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
Ha! I think it’s that next step where some tough choices have to be made, and where some really interesting things are uncovered. For example…Kelly over Allen (probably not?). Simpson over Thomas (maybe?). How about Poyer and Hyde (did we see the best two safeties side by side for so many years?)
I’ll take Saimes over both Hyde and Poyer
-
We live in a society of impatience now. When every single piece of information is available on your phone at the touch of a button, when people get ticked if they have to sit in a Starbucks line for more than 5 minutes, and so on. So now rookies in pro sports have to be great day 1, and improve after that. This kid seeks to have taken the criticism he got to heart and worked his ass off in the off-season. Good for him.
-
6
-
-
5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
Cookie would have been the guy for sure. He too was before my time but feel like it would have passed the sniff test. I tried to limit the guys before my time to the HOFers (OJ, Shaw, Joe D). That’s not ideal but felt it was the fairest way for me. I’m always interested to hear from you guys that have been here from the start.
Appreciate the opportunity
-
12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
Yeah, I intentionally left of a TE because it would have had to left off Thurman or one of those WRs. I just didn’t feel right about it as they were all better players. Warlick would have been my choice even though he was before my time. The Bills haven’t had good TEs in their history.
TE has been lacking to be sure. You also didn’t have a FB, but if you wanted to include one I’d add Cookie. Braxton was also really good.
-
26 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
Why do you need a TE? This isn't a team we are fielding, it's a list of best players, and assuredly Warlick is not on it.
Kirby asked for a starting lineup. TEs are usually included.
-
Looks like he’s worked his butt off this off season. We’ll see how he does.
-
5
-
-
1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I was thinking about this differently. I was thinking, “what would my all-time, Bills starting lineup be?” The late 80’s is as far back as my memory goes. I’ve included HOFers before my time but not savvy enough to know if Sestak/Byrd/Edgerson/Cookie belong. I’ve also made some executive decisions because WR & RB have been better than TE. This is ONLY for their time as Bills (sorry TO) here it goes:
QB - Allen
RB: OJ
RB: Thurman
WR1: Andre
WR2: Moulds
Slot: Diggs
LT: Dion
LG: Joe D
C Kent Hull
RG: Shaw
RT: House Ballard
DE: Bruce
DE: Mario Williams
DT: Ted Washington
DT: Kyle Williams
OLB: Takeo
OLB: Biscuit
MLB: Talley
CB: Winfield
CB: Clemens
S: Jones
S: Poyer
KR: McGee
ST: Tasker
K: Christie
P: Moorman
HC: Marv
OC: Marchibroda
DC: Schwartz
Great idea. Being one of the old guys, I’d make a couple suggestions:
1. I would think about Jerry Butler vs, Moulds at WR. His career was cut short by injury but he was something else.
2. I’d reverse Reed and Diggs; to me Andre almost invented slot receiver.
3. You don’t have a TE so I’d throw Ernie Warlick in there.
4. DT I’d have Tom Sestak. He was a great player.
5. DE: Could make a case for Ron McDole
6. OLB Mike Stratton was great. And MLB I might put London Fletcher, or Jim Haslett. Talley was really more an OLB.
7. CBs for me would be Robert James and Butch Byrd. I personally liked Egerson as much as Byrd James to me is the best CB to ever put on a Bills uniform. Could also put White here.
8. At S you could throw in Saimes and/or Tony Greene. Saimes was a mainstay of the great AFL defenses.-
1
-
-
55 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:
Surprised you didn't go with Dubenion over Butler.
Duby was good but Butler would have been an All Timer had he not got hurt.
-
2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:
Obviously but you putting Lofton above Diggs is baffling to me.
Well, that’s why there’s a chat room I guess.
-
On 6/13/2025 at 2:55 PM, Slippery Rubber Mats said:
Where is the thigh doctor when we need him
Not a thigh doctor but an Anatomy doctorate. Muscles can recover from tears or pulls. In fact, when you lift weights to put on muscle mass what happens is you get mini-tears in the muscle, which then get repaired by the muscle laying down more intracellular fibers (actin and myosin), i.e. the muscle undergoes hypertrophy. Fun fact, muscle cells don’t replicate.
-
5
-
3
-
-
4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
I agree...and I will say this, Allen at 6 was a joke. They labeled this the greatest "players" not greatest "careers". And even though he is 29, he has already established he is the greatest individual player to put on a Bills jersey of all time.
You nailed the top 3 - And I think the order starts with Josh and then you can interchange Bruce or OJ at 2 and 3. But I would go Josh, OJ, Bruce. Thurman is without a doubt next at 4 too, so you nailed that again.
And I think Reed and Kelly at 4 and 5 are were clear choices too, even in no particular order.
So yeah, I agree with everything you said here, although I think Diggs has a case for 6.
Once you get past these guys it does get murky and very subjective, especially since a lot of the most talented guys either didn't play here that long (came late, left in FA, etc) or were saddled with a terrible era of football that over shadowed them or hurt their production (Moulds, Kyle, etc). For example, guys like Gilmore, Peters, Diggs, McCoy, etc. are subjective in where you can rank them despite their immense talents.
Look, I love Josh. We all love Josh. But to say at this point he is definitively the best Bills player ever over Bruce and/or OJ is kind of silly.
1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:I think the top 4 WR's in Bills history were: Reed, Diggs, Moulds, and Evans in that order. After that it gets more subjective with guys like Lofton, Butler, Cole, Stevie, etc as to who is 5th.
I would ask if you are old enough to have watched Jerry Butler. Because those who watched him know he was much better than Lee Evans. Same with Lofton.
-
13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:
I despised the guy and I'm so glad we're no longer giving a WR diva on the decline the key to the city. LOL. I'd say in his prime he was the best WR to put on a Bills uniform even though his prime wasn't as a Bill that one season.
If the argument is which did more in a Bills uniform then Lofton did much more than Owens. As for best WR in a Bills uni I’d have Reed, Butler, Lofton, Diggs, and Moulds as top 5.
-
1
-
-
2 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:
Everyone has mentioned the best ones.
Hall of Famers + Allen: Bruce Smith, OJ, Allen, Thurman Thomas, Joe D, Billy Shaw, Andre Reed, Jim Kelly. That's 8.
Bennett, Talley, Moulds, Smerlas and Hull are probably the next one because of their combined longevity, excellence and value to the team. Smerlas should be a borderline HOF veterans committee consideration. He was even T5 for DPOY once and I think 3-4 All Pros and 5 or so Pro Bowls.
We're at 13
The last two I would put in the group are Tasker and Kemp. Unique players without the stats of others. Tasker redefine special teams players and Kemp was the leader on the 2 AFL championship teams.
That leaves a lot of guys out but that's how I would put together the list. The one I would question the most is Kemp but fairly evaluating QBs from that era is difficult. Look at the stats for Unitas, Starr and Namath, but they all meant a lot to their teams.
The 3 I think of that would almost certainly would have been in strong consideration for the top 15 if not for injury would be Robert James (who you could make a case for sneaking in at 15 or instead of Bennett or Talley), Sam Cowart and Jerry Butler, in that order. I think Cowart would have been better than Bennett and Talley
Bobby James is another great name
Just now, Doc Brown said:Owens was more talented than Lofton and Reed if you're going by HOF talent.
Was never an Owens fan for some reason.
-
3 minutes ago, FireChans said:
A lot of that SB run team is just overrated.
I love Steve Tasker. Great ST guy. He is competing with Moorman for maybe the best ST player in Bills history. He is in no way a greater or more valuable Bill than Kyle WIlliams or Bennet.
I had Tasker on my list. I’ll admit he’s one of my all time favorite Bills, but he’s on my list because he might be the best ST player (not kicker or returner) of all time.
20 hours ago, oldmanfan said:Can’t open it but here’s my list in order
Bruce
OJ
Thurman
Kelly
Shaw
Reed
Allen
Joe D
Tasker
Sestak
Bennett
Butler
Lofton
Gilchrist
Hull
Lot of folks have put some other great names. If I was going to add 5 more they’d be Brown, K Williams, Smerlas, Stratton, and Diggs
-
30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
No but I am going to question if you are judging with how you feel about one vs. how they performed. Diggs was one of the best WRs in the NFL when he was here. Lofton was a role player. He had 1 really good year in Buffalo (1991). He was 2nd on the team and 9th in the NFL in yards and TDs. Diggs had multiple years here well above that. He did that as the focus of the defense, not the 2nd best pass catcher. Diggs is an idiot. He was a much better player in a Bills uniform than Lofton. I’d love to here your argument for Lofton.
I give preference to guys with HOF talent. I can see arguments for Diggs over him.
7 minutes ago, iccrewman112 said:A name I haven’t seen is Ruben Brown. He was an 8x pro bowler while with Buffalo as well as 2x all-pro.
Had to make a choice between him and Hull on my list. Brown was outstanding
-
17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
Bills Diggs is absolutely ahead of the Bills version of Lofton. It’s not close. One was the guy and the other was a role player. If you want to argue Reed over Diggs, okay, but no chance on Lofton. Moulds is in an interesting one as well but I’d probably have Bills Diggs over him. In my lifetime (at least that I remember): Reed, Diggs, Moulds, Stevie, Lofton, Beasley
Well I disagree. Are you going to beat me up or something?
-
1
-
2
-
-
I think Ingram may very well start the season as CB2.
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
-
45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
There’s not one thing Kelly did better than Allen. In fact, Kelly was bad in the playoffs. Frank Reich was 2-0 in that span. Don’t confuse winning with a good QB for winning because of a good QB. The early 90’s Bills were the 2025 Eagles. The difference is Jalen Hurts is a better playoff performer than Kelly. There’s not a single thing that Jim Kelly was better at than Josh Allen.
I used the Jalen Hurts argument earlier in the offseason. Jim Kelly was the Jalen Hurts of his day. He was a top 5ish QB that won a lot. Josh Allen is the MVP of the league. It’s not comparable.I would suggest Kelly was better throwing the long ball. And you cannot discount that he called all the plays. I have no doubt that Allen will be with Bruce at the top of the list when all is said and done, but that does not mean one has to denigrate a first ballot HOFer in Kelly.
-
2
-
-
42 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:
That's not saying much. You're so old, your life expectancy is about 38 days, so you probably only need $500 for the rest of your retirement.
There is that…
-
2 hours ago, MJS said:
I have Kelly over Allen as well. Kelly took us to 4 superbowls. It isn't a list of talent. Considering the overall Impact, I think Kelly did more. But I have no doubt that Allen will surpass him.
I agree. I suspect in 5 years Allen tops my list. At least I hope so!
Buffalo Sabres and the NHL: 2025 - 2026
in Off the Wall
Posted
The issue with the Sabres to me are the players. Terry could be a better owner sure, but throughout the drought there have been very good players on the roster who have done great before or after their Sabres time, but didn’t perform at that level in Buffalo. What is needed is a captain that runs the locker room and will not accept anything less than maximum effort from everyone on the roster. Eichel wasn’t that, Okposo wasn’t, and I have my doubts about Dahlin.
The players need to step up and play hard. Many of them go through the motions. My biggest example is Power. The next time I see him stand a guy up at the blue line or move a guy from in front of the net will be my first. I’d trade him and keep Bowen.