TheElectricCompany
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Posts posted by TheElectricCompany
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49 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:
VIck's career is likely Jackson's floor.
FIFY
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34 minutes ago, finn said:
I don't think is necessarily true, if by "strides" you mean the giant leaps Allen has made, which may be unprecedented at the QB position if they continue or even hold up. I say that because Allen has a package of football intelligence, coachability, drive to improve, and competitiveness that few QBs have. Add to that his physical traits and you have a real anomaly. Jackson might match Allen's physical traits (he's a better runner but not as big), and you could argue he also has football intelligence and coachability, maybe, but he seems to get all mopey and regress when things go badly, and I don't see much improvement this year, which suggests he might not be as driven as Allen so clearly is. As others have pointed out, if you take away his tight ends, he's lost. I get it that we don't have to tear down Jackson to feel good about Allen, but I don't think TheElectricCompany's claim necessarily follows.
Improvements will not always be massive leaps, but yes, it is reasonable to expect 3rd year QBs to continue to develop. You do realize that Lamar's leap from Year 1 to 2 was also quite unprecedented, right?
I'm not going into comparing intangibles between LJ and Josh - they both "check the boxes" and want to be great. Remember Lamar's draft night interview, when they asked him what Ravens fans could expect, and his response was "Super Bowl - believe that" ? Josh didn't talk about Super Bowls that night, it's clear he doesn't care about being a champion. 🙄
"Take away the tight ends", "take away his running ability", "take him out of a Roman run heavy scheme", why do we continue to put asterisks on his performance, like he needs to apologize for his talents and situation?
Looks lost throwing outside....Okie dokie, here are his 2019 numbers. Deep ball was his "weak" area.
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1 minute ago, Tjm3 said:
Practice videos....
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The pre-draft stats on him were not just bad, but atrocious.I don't think anyone could make a statistical case on why he should be a 1st round player, let alone a top 10 pick.
Yes, stats aren't everything, but we're living in a data based world. The reality is major business decisions, like drafting a 1st round QB and committing to him for 3+ years, require the support of both the tape AND data. Josh never had that. For example, if you were drafting Baker Mayfield, you were drafting one of the highest graded QBs in NCAA history, and the videos clearly showed someone with great accuracy, fundamentals and awareness. If you were drafting Josh, you were drafting a guy with terrible numbers (ex. threw 1 TD and 8 INT against Power5 opponents in his career), and the videos clearly showed inconsistent play, often against trash teams.
"Heart", "desire", "work ethic" - all good qualities, but it's not like Josh has higher amount of hours in the week than other players. It is a talent based league, and you can't possibly outwork everyone into the turf. Belicheck said it best years ago, QB play is as simple as "See the open guy, make the throw". You either can do it, or you can't.
The Bills saw someone that could develop into a star QB, and they should get the credit for that, as should Josh. He's clearly improved his game each season and is quickly burying the pre-draft narratives that exist. Did we get lucky with his success? The stats would say yes, but it doesn't matter now. We're on to Las Vegas...
EDIT: A good reminder of the narrative going into 2018 Draft...
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On 9/29/2020 at 1:41 PM, Mr. WEO said:
come on.... no "heart"??
That's the one I was looking for.
McD is a great coach, but my goodness, his coachspeak is so bland.
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It's like he threw those 36 TDs by accident.
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22 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:
I can crunch some numbers. Ive never said he is bad in the pocket, that would be others. I am stating that he runs “a lot” and through time, historically speaking, that doesn’t lend to a long career.
I think his rushing attempts will decrease over time, much like Russel Wilson did, as he continues to develop as a passer. He'll always be a threat to take off and run.
Historically speaking - he's in uncharted territory with the running AND passing prowess he has showcased in his short career (that's the point).
Just like Josh, we haven't seen his true ceiling yet, and I'm really excited to watch Lamar continue to dominate in this league. He'll join the $40M+ club soon and likely win a championship, or multiples, in time.
I don't see any reason to have anything but optimism for him.
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5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:
It's tough to win 12-13 games in the NFL, even for a perennial contender on an easy schedule. Would love to see it, I Bill-ieve it's possible, but that would be a miracle to pull off this year. I hope you guys are right! GO BILLS!
While our offense will come down to earth (Josh is not scoring 60+ TDs this year), I do think our defense will hit their stride in the coming weeks.
That balance will be critical as we get into January.
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Barring major injuries or COVID outbreaks, I think we're a 12 win team.
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Most deals age well, but no doubt, Tre's is aging faster than others.
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1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:
, Lamar at times plays and is used as a tailback- he will be part of the Not For Long league.
The "Lamar's a RB" takes are hysterical.
I've posted numerous videos in this thread about his ability to make plays in the pocket, showcasing his accuracy, ball velocity, vision and movement in the
pocket. Help me out and post some videos that show the opposite.
If Josh can continue to make strides in his game, so can Lamar.
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That would be premature, but I'd love seeing Gregg Williams blowing hot air again.
Gase will build a championship contender - he just needs more time!
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1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:
This is the Tyrod argument all over again.
Oh my....LOL
I think it is clear you are seeing exactly what you want to see.
Stats, accolades and highlights be damned.
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I want to see some of these throws that Allen can make, but Mahomes can't.
If there is one thing Mahomes has done in 3 seasons, its rewritten the book of what throws are possible.
And to get back to Lamar, he's got a gorgeous deep flick pass.
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15 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:
You can’t be that limited as a passer and get past playoff defenses and offenses.
From Baltimore Sun this month:
This year, Jackson’s AFC-leading accuracy belies the difficulty of his throws: According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, he’s throwing the ball farther downfield than ever before (9.4 intended air yards per pass, No. 9 overall). Despite ranking No. 29 in the NFL in attempts, according to Pro-Football-Reference, Jackson ranks No. 13 in completed air yards. As a runner and a passer, the Ravens refuse to coddle him.
Jackson’s precociousness as a runner and leader has been well documented. But even some of the NFL’s most decorated passers didn’t find a groove as quickly as he has. Jackson’s accuracy through his first 24 starts (65%) trumps that of Tom Brady (64.8%), Aaron Rodgers (63.4%), Russell Wilson (63%) and Drew Brees (59.7%).
How about some video? Tell me how this guy is a limited passer and how he can't make plays from the pocket.
From Jay Glazier this offseason:
"He works his butt off, so I think he's going to always stay a step ahead. The thing not talked about enough with Jackson is his jump in accuracy. He worked so hard to get more accurate. It wasn't a little more accurate—it was a lot more accurate. Coaches around the league marvel about his accuracy and how much he jumped last year. He has gone through the ceiling because of his work ethic."
Put some RESPECT on this guys name.
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26 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:
Lamar is a good QB in my opinion. He's a bit different but good none the less. He has improved as a passer every year.
I don't believe he will be the passer that Allen and Mahomes are but he will have a good career.
With that being said. He should not have got the MVP last season because he had games like this so leave the MVP talk out of it.
Allen and Mahomes are not in the same passing universe.
Wilson is the only one who comes close, but Mahomes is one of a kind. For as long as he's in the league, I think he'll be in the #1 QB.
Lamar is no slouch as a passer and unanimous MVP for a reason (only happened twice in history) . I think he'll have several seasons where he's in the MVP conversation again, as will Allen.
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What offense is designed to play from behind? That's a weird take.
There are many ways to win in this league - a run heavy attack with a dual threat QB is one of them.
As Lamar continues to improve as a passer, I'm sure his rushing attempts will decrease, but it will always be part of his game.
Yeah, they could use more weapons (what team has too many playmakers?), but he's got a pretty good supporting cast
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4 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:
The Bills knew how to defend him last season too. All but one blown play.
Aside from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
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7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:
For a list coming from a Bills fan this isn't bad.
For the first 3 weeks he is.
For 2020 only, agreed. Total career, no, but he's gaining fast (he was middle of the pack coming into the season)
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7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:
Hapless, I see you’re point, I just meant LJ came out fast and played well from the beginning and is a decent QB. I haven’t seen a great deal of improvement over these two years and three games. He has a particular skill set and does it well. Conversely, Allen seems to have improved each year even if you just take a simple metric of completion %. 53 to 59, to now really high so far at 71.1%. I don’t expect, but hope he can maintain anywhere close to this level. Before the season, I stated I would be ecstatic if Allen can hover around 65%, but there are 10 of 32 starting QB’s above 70%. That has to be partially the defense were not as ready as offenses so far, but I expect teams will tighten up as we roll through the year.
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I know it's a Bills forum, but I'm surprised some of you would place him in the top 5 already.
He's not there yet, but if keeps up his current pace, he'll be there by end of the year.
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RE: Cam...it's a good debate. He's still writing his story, but I think he's already in the best dual threat conversation, mainly due to his red zone performance.
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22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
I see Lamar as being a bit in the spot where Josh Allen was last season.
Josh had some big gaps in his game - the deep ball, the ability to throw with anticipation. The better defenses "solved" that and smothered us.
IMO people don't give Lamar sufficient credit - he can in fact stand in the pocket and make reads, and the throws he makes, he makes very well. But he does have gaps in his game, and if a defense is good enough to play sound gap control and take away the intermediate stuff (which last year, was not something most Ds could do), they could slow or stifle the Ravens. We laid the foundation, the Titans built it up, now the Chiefs hammered in the sill. So now it's on Lamar to "level up" again and start making some of those throws. He did suffer some bad drops, and as above, I do wonder how losing his #2 TE is going to affect the game. So far Boyle isn't filling those shoes.
Anyway, it puzzles me why some here believe Josh Allen can level up has game and improve, but a talented and uber-competitive QB like Lamar Jackson somehow can't. He made a big jump in college, he made another huge jump last year, I don't see evidence to believe he's reached his ceiling yet.I never got the sense that LJ threw a poor deep ball, but I know that was a popular offseason take. He throws some beautiful passes.
It's not often that we see a NFL player who can get over limitations with athleticism, but he's able to do so when he runs. The "play sound gap control" strategy is simple in concept, but extremely difficult to do in practice. He can run past or elude the vast majority of defenders he faces. The play against Milano last year, or the spin against the Bengals, simply isn't something you can gameplan around.
We're seeing what Josh's ceiling looks like, as well as Lamar's. The future is bright for both clubs, and both QBs will improve!
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My top 6 is pretty set (Mahomes, Russ, Lamar, Rodgers, Dak and Watson), but I think Allen can get in there by seasons end.
Ranking the NFL QBs...
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
2020 only...I'd go 1.) Wilson 2.) Mahomes 3.) Rodgers 4.) Allen
Total Career Ranking... I'd say Allen is in the 12-15 range. He keeps it up, by years end, he's in the 5-9 range.
Young QB to Build Around Ranking...I'd go 1.) Mahomes 2.) Lamar 3.) Watson 4.) Allen.
All subject to change!