BillsFan4
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Posts posted by BillsFan4
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I totally agree. I think it's the QB position in general. I think Pegula knows how important the Qb position is, and I really like that the Bills seem to really be doing their due diligence on the QB draft class the last couple of years. It seems like they have heavily scouted and vetted quite a few college QBs these past couple off seasons.IMO, it has more to do with the position of QB than it does which round they are projected to go. Bills didn't have a 1st that year, and Petty was projected to go as high as the 2nd-3rd. I don't think Pegs would bother flying around to meet with 1st rd linebackers, on the other hand.
I don't think Pegula visiting him gives us any real indication of what round they would be willing to take him in. I just think it shows that they are doing their homework on the QB draft class, which is great IMO.
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Funny that all the AFC East teams visited with him, and only the AFC East teams. I guess they all remember the Jim Kelly days well...
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Notice that your analysis is based on the assumption that the Bills would cut Taylor. There's no evidence of this. And I don't think the Bills ever intended to cut him.
That's the real reason teams didn't make serious big offers to him. They knew there was no point.
But I also agree that Taylor didn't want to leave. Good fans, liked the coach, great running back and receiver.
I'm sure the conversation went like this: "we want you here but we need help on your contract." "I want to be here and I like my contract. I let you tie me up for six years at a price below what I'm going to be able to earn in another year or two." "well, maybe, maybe not. If you believe that, lets tear up the long-term deal and do another two-year deal." "sounds good to me."
I didn't really mean to imply that the Bills would have cut Tyrod. I have no idea if they would have or not. It seems kind of crazy to me that they would have cut him, especially since they had nobody even remotely close to better to replace him with.
But then again, who knows with the Bills...
The restructure could have all just been a game of chicken to see who blinks first, or they could have been serious about moving on from TT and signing Hoyer (like the rumors said) if he wasn't willing to take the pay cut. We will probably never know for sure, but I am glad that they kept TT.
I do think that Tyrod is betting on himself with this contract though like you said, and I kind of think that Whaley is banking/betting on Tyrod staying the same or failing, because if he does improve, like you said he will most likely make more than what the Bills originally had him locked up at and Whaley will look kind of foolish. At the very least, Whaley hedged his bet.
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Uh no. Owner doesn't go to see 2nd round picks, sorry.
What experts? Whaley sucks in picking QB's. I bet Dennison is doing the evaluations and will suggest who to take. Our scouting dept can't find a QB if Tom Brady sat on their laps. Look at the history, they suck at finding a QB and maybe Terry is tired of it.
The owner met with Bryce Petty a couple years ago, and took him out to dinner (in Texas I believe). Unless you think they thought Petty was a 1st round caliber player...
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I know they control his rights for quite a while but when your GM screws up everything that surrounds your superstar, it is tough to expect your superstar to want to stay. Eichel sounds like he realizes things aren't going anywhere the way they are being run. They would get a lot lot lot for him but don't be surprised if he asks to be dealt. Still, Murray can't do that.
And before you get all uppity about what I wrote ask yourself a couple of things. Clearly the season didn't go well. Does Eichel's action here display confidence in his future? Concern for it? Does it display trust in management to turns things around?
Murray had a superstar fall into his lap and in two years time the whole thing is screwed up. If the Coyotes had beaten us to the bottom, Murray's other crap would have done him in by now.
I didn't take him sitting in his equipment anything like that. I took it as him being ultra competitive.
I don't at all think the whole thing is screwed up. I think you are expecting way too much, too fast. Most rebuilds seem to take an average of 5 years before they start seeing results. Some even longer. Buffalo is one of the youngest teams in the NHL. There's a long ways to get yet...
This season was absolutely a disappointment. But I don't think it's impossible for things to improve next season. The Sabres were near the top of the NHL in man games lost to injury. Thats a lot for a young team to overcome.
As far as Eichel being unhappy with losing - GOOD! I want him to hate losing. A lot can change in the time we still have him under team control though. If we start winning he won't care about losing in his first couple/few years in the league. It's WAY too early to start worrying about losing Eichel yet.
maybe we finally win the lottery this yr, we are do.
Who's the top kid this yr?
Nolan Patrick
What was so obnoxious about the manner in which the GM announced his selection? He went up to the podium and simply stated the name of the player that everyone knew he was going to select. There was no phony drama or silly chatter before the announcement. What do you want: A Rex Ryan clown act of going to the podium with his helmet on? There are many things you can validly criticize the GM for but this is not one of them.
Personally, I loved the way he announced the selection. I hate all the drama building BS that some GMs do... That's much more annoying to me than the way Murray announced his pick.
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They're taking a QB high. Anyone doubt this?
I do. This is not the first time we've seen the Bills show heavy interest in the QB class and not take a QB high.
We may or may not, but there was a whole lot of smoke last year about drafting a QB in the 1st, and even trading up with the a Browns to #2, and we waited till the 4th.
I think it's 50/50 that we take a QB in the 1st this year. If they feel like there's a franchise QB to be had, and he's available at #10, I think they draft him. If not, they won't draft a QB until later.
I am very happy to see them doing their due diligence though.
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And Jarran Reed
And Bryce Petty IIRC
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Are you really going to tell me that teams don't tamper anyway? Are you really going to tell me that TT and or his agent had no idea his value on the market?
The only explanation is that Tyrod loves Buffalo sooooooooooooo much.
I believe the most Tyrod's agent could do was kind of subtly gauge the interest level other teams had in Tyrod, without getting into any type of specifics like contract details/numbers etc.
So I would imagine that they didn't feel Tyrod would get much more than what the Bills offered him in the renegotiated deal. I believe Whaley made a comment along these lines when talking about the renegotiated Tyrod contract.
And I also feel that Tyrod likely felt this was the best place for his chances to be successful, compared to the Jets & Browns and whatever other mediocre team might have been interested.
Knowing most of his teammates, being a leader in the locker room and not wanting to start over probably factored into it too.
He probably could have gotten the same amount of money (that the Bills ended up paying on the restructure) elsewhere, but felt better about his chances of long term success here.
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Someone told me to come look at this thread, so I did. Of course, it's impossible to read the whole thing or, frankly, to even follow the last couple of pages. Anyway, I'll tell you what I think about Tyrod. A lot of you know me and maybe you've heard it before.
1. I like Taylor. Great athlete, good arm, dedication, running is a plus. I've heard all the arguments about anticipation, throwing people open, seeing the field, throwing over the middle, too short. All possible, but I'm not convinced of any of that, not yet. Could be true, but I think he's still growing, and I want to see another year out of him.
2. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Bills were going to cut Taylor. There were plenty of rumors, and so far as I could tell, they all were started by the press, that the Bills were going to cut him and that Whaley didn't want him. Everyone got all excited about that. No one got excited when, in the last few weeks, all the press rumors were that the Bills would keep him.
Why do I doubt they'd cut him? Because he played starter-quality football for two seasons, because starters are hard to find and because the Bills couldn't expect to find a starter in the draft or free agency. The Bills were NOT going to start over at quarterback. They might keep looking for one better than Taylor; I think they should. But they are not going to leave themselves in the same position they did with Manuel - a rookie start or a journeyman failure as the only options. Taylor is a legitimate threat at QB, and until the Bills get someone better, they are not going to let him go.
3. So what was going on with Taylor's contract? My theory is this: Taylor is ambitious, wants to start, has a lot of confidence in himself and expects to get paid eventually. He took a cheap contract to be a starter in Buffalo when he left the Ravens. Why did he take so little? Because he had the option to get out after two seasons, and he knew if he started somewhere he'd get paid a lot more. That's exactly what happened. He played well his first season in Buffalo, and the Bills didn't want to lose him after the second season and they didn't want to have to match some other team's offer. Still, they wanted the right to cut him if he flopped his second season. Taylor didn't want to get tied up long-term unless he got some real money. So they negotiated the six-year deal, Taylor gets decent money if he stays and the Bills get the option to get out of the deal if they didn't like his 2016.
So then Taylor has a decent but uninspiring 2016 and the Bills aren't sure they want him on the terms of the contract. Plus, they want some cap relief. So they talk to Taylor, not to cut him but to get the right to cut him in another year without a huge cap hit. Taylor says you can't have it both ways. If you want the right to get out, then I want to have the right to get out too. So they agree to a two-year deal. For two years Taylor gets paid more or less what he would have made in two years under the deal. What did Taylor give up? The third year guaranteed. Why did he do that? Because he's confident in his ability, and it's much more likely than not that he can get $10 million a year somewhere in 2019, in which case he's no worse off than he was under his original Buffalo deal. In other words, because the Bills wanted to keep Taylor for 2017 and maybe 18 before committing to him long-term, Taylor got the right, again, to be a free agent in the prime of his career. Good deal for both sides.
4. Why was there no more interest in Taylor? As someone pointed out, he wasn't a free agent and it's tampering to talk contracts with someone who isn't a free agent. It happens, I know, when a guy's contract is expiring, but Taylor's contract wasn't expiring. If anyone had talked contract with Taylor, that would have affected the Bills' ability to renegotiate - they would have screamed tampering. Teams lose draft picks for tampering.
Don't think for a minute teams weren't interested. Six teams, at least, would be markedly improve their QB situation with Taylor. You think the Jets woudn't have grabbed him? And don't argue that no one was interested because Taylor is a marginal QB. Taylor's stats for 2016 were mediocre; in 2015 they were great. He played all of 2016 injured. He didn't have his #1 receiver, and he didn't have much of anything else in the receiving department. He played for a dysfunctional head coach.
Taylor would have gotten $15 million a year for a few years if he'd hit the market, probably more. Now he's going to start for the Bills for 2017. If he has a season like he did in 2015, guess what? The Bills will be back at the negotiating table AGAIN, because they won't want him to be come a free agent in 2018. If he has a mediocre 2017, they'll roll the dice and let him play out his contract. If he's great in 2018, it'll cost the Bills a lot to keep him. If he's mediocre, they'll let him walk and he'll get $20-30 million guaranteed someplace else.
5. OF COURSE, McDermott wanted to keep him, and if you want to say it was driven by fear, fine. You can call it fear, but it's better described as brains. You're taking over a team that led the league in rushing for two consecutive years in no small part because you have the best running QB in the league. He also happens to have a passer rating around the top 10 in the league over the past two seasons. You're going to let him go so WHO can be your QB? WHO? It would be a colossally dumb move in your first year as an NFL head coach to dump your team's starting QB in favor of no one just so you can put your mark on the team. Who would do that?
Hey, Shaw! Good to see you here. I always enjoyed your posts. I hope you stick around. This place has been pretty good so far. I've even seen guys like John Wawrow posting in some threads and providing info/answering questions etc. (which is pretty cool IMO). This particular thread is not a good representation of what this message board is like as a whole.
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Have you heard of the legal tampering period? TT had a whole day to talk to other teams. If the Browns were gonna give him $10M more than the Bills and the starting job, why would he stay?
I fhought that was only for players who are about to be free agents?
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Remember him from Hard Knocks. He had potential, was just raw. Hopefully he's progressed some...
IIRC, Mike Waufle and some other Rams coaches were pretty bummed they had to cut him. Loved his work ethic, motor and personality.
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Woops. I honestly didn't see it. Still used to the old bbmb forum. This one is a bit different on your phone
I was just messing with you man.
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New into what I say in a thread that is all about Tyrod in a Tyrod thread that you by yourself have dominated in. You have talked this subject to death on BBMB and have done the same again here in this very thread. I have not posted much in this thread but when I have I have to regurgitate the same old garbage because the same old garbage is being pushed by the same poster. Understand your opinion doesnt trump others its just a opinion, this thread should have been dead after the first page, what it shows is fans are on both sides of the fence even though you keep trying to convert fans to your side pushing fans to get back on that bridge.SMH, just a FYI many are jumping off that bridge faster then you can try to tie them to it.
I have honestly never seen you contribute to any other topic besides trashing Tyrod. I once looked at your post history on BBMB. It showed your last 500 posts and every single one was on Tyrod Taylor.
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Mike Harrington @ByMHarrington
Eichel sat in full uniform in room as many of #Sabres had already left. Lehner came over, tapped him on the leg, shook his hand. #Sabres
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You know what? You're right. 0-3.
Thanks. I knew it was something like that.
Do you know the record with Lesean McCoy out of the lineup off hand? Was 3-2 right? Or did I guess wrong again? lol
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Don't worry. If Murray stick around you'll be able to root for this stuff again next year....and the following....and the following. You'll get the added bonus of watching a smug prick continuing to act like he knows what he is doing.
So 4th worst record in the NHL? Wow. What a great year.
Eh. Time will tell. I have already told you how I feel about Murray, so I won't repeat it.
But I don't think Murray will get more than another season or two if things continue to go this bad. I heard a rumor that his leash is getting shorter already. Whether it's actually true or not, I do not know.
Same with Bylsma. I heard rumors that it's 50/50 he even survives this season.
And we had the 5th worst record. But all that separates 5th and 9th worst is like 1 point. All those teams in the 5-12 area all finished pretty close to one another. Then the 4 teams below us finished 8+ points behind Buffalo. So there are different tiers of bad... lol.
Hey, at least we are not Colorado! They finished with 48 points (we had 78). For reference, Buffalo finished with 52 & 54 points in their tank years, and that 52 point team was the worst the NHL had seen in a very long time. I believe they even set a record. So Colorado just set a new record for terrible... (and they have 10x the talent that the Buffalo tank teams had). Crazy stuff. I have no clue what happened with them this year.
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Buffalo loses and Detroit wins. Perfect for our draft position.
We should be picking 5th I believe, before the draft lottery that is. Maybe this will be the year we finally have some draft lottery luck...
Knowing our luck, and the NHL, we will probably get pushed down the full 3 spots we can fall...lol.
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EJ Manuel is terrible. Just because Tyrod can beat EJ doesn't make him this incredible piece.
That's not at all what I said...
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Actually, there is plenty of tape on Tyrod and the Bills have never shown much urgency at the QB position. It's always an afterthought. Tyrod's contract goes to 18 million next year. If they cut him that's 6 million of dead cap.
And that assumes they have drafted and developed a QB. I'll believe it when I see it.
McDermott has never been a head coach or general manager. As a defensive coordinator he ran a bland 4-3 zone scheme. I see nothing to get excited over and there are now red flags that he is too conservative. The Tyrod signing screams fear to me and someone not comfortable in his role here.
For some reason I thought there was no dead cap hit if Tyrod was released after this season. But you are right, there is. Its a $8.6M dead cap hit (or less spread out longer if designated post June 1st). So it does seem more likely Tyrod is back next year, then.
I still feel they will most likely draft a QB this year or next though. Even if we don't draft one until next year, that gives them a full season to begin developing that QB (or 2 season if they draft 1 this year, or put that effort into developing Cardale).
As for McDermott, he has had a top 10 defense 4 of the past 5 years. I don't think it was as bland as you, but if bland gets the Bills a top 10 defense most seasons, I will take it.
I also believe he has a lot of the traits you look for in successful head coaches. He's also a Jim Johnson disciple, and says himself that he is aggressive, so I don't see where he will be too conservative. If you're referring to Leslie Frazier, I understand the concern with him. But he will be running McDermott's d scheme, not his own. But we will see I guess...
He's a first time HC though, so none of us know if he will work out or not. But I love (most of) the staff he has put together, and I have much higher hopes for him than I have for Rex or Marrone or Gailey or Jauron (etc).
I don't get why the Tyrod signing screams he's not comfortable in his role? Tyrod gives the Bills the best chance at winning next season out of all the options available (like him or not, he has had a top 12 scoring offense in both of his seasons as starting QB). Winning is how head coaches keep their job. It also seems to me that many head coaches have little interest in banking their entire career's on unproven rookie QBs (and that rookie hasn't even been drafted yet, unless you think he should have put his money on Cardale) except if that QB is more of a sure thing, top 3 pick type rookie QB.
He is a first time HC. He doesn't have a winning track record and good will built up with the fans. The best way to ensure his job security is to win as many games as possible this season. Tyrod gives us a better chance at that than a raw, rookie project QB from this year's draft. I'd rather keep Tyrod and make a drafted QB legitimately earn the starting job.
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Shady was a big part of the offense no doubt......but you cannot say that the offense was productive and then discount the QB of the offense....that is like saying the snake doesnt need his head to be productive.
QB gets his share of credit for offensive production.....offense was 7th when Tyrod was on the field and 10 when he was not......is our offense going to be better then 10th if a 300 yard 2 interception passer is on the field throwing to street free agents?
No....it isnt
Alao - the Bills are something like 0-5 (or 1-5) with Tyrod out of the lineup, and something like 3-2 with McCoy out of the lineup (I can't remember the exact record, if someone cares to look it up).
Plus McCoy only had less than 900 yards and 3 total touchdowns in 2015, and the offense was still top 12 in points.
Obviously McCoy was a huge part of the offense, especially in 2016, but I still think Tyrod played a bigger part than some give him credit for. The offense definitely did not look as good when Tyrod wasn't playing (in both 2015 and 2016).
Maybe some other QB besides EJ/Cardale could step in and run the offense as efficiently as Tyrod, but I have my doubts since the Bills have had many random QBs under center since Jim Kelly retired and none have had the offense scoring as efficiently as Tyrod has. This is the best offense the Bills have had in decades, and I have to give Tyrod some credit for that.
And I don't buy that it's solely just the rushing attack, because EJ had the #2 rushing offense in the NFL in 2013, yet they were like 25th in points.
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Very true. Sabres could potentially fall a few spots if 3 teams picking after us won the draft lottery, although the odds of that happening are very small.I get your point about the gross draft order, but the lottery is the ultimate determining factor on who picks where.
But I'd still much rather see them lose tonight and have the better odds at a higher draft pick.
Winning tonight puts us picking at 9th overall (and 9th best odds), losing puts us at 5th or 6th. That's a big difference IMO.
Good info...thank you
You're welcome!
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Based on what? Just curious.
Based on Tyrod's restructured contract (I'm not even convinced they bring him back next year at his $18M cap hit as it sits currently), and on only having Tyrod and Cardale on the roster.
Unless Tyrod somehow proves he is the long term answer this season or Cardale somehow develops into a legit starting QB by next season, I believe the Bills will address the QB position in the draft.
Obviously it's just my opinion, but that is my guess as of right now.
I also have very high hopes for Sean McDermott. I have been a fan of his for years. So maybe I am putting too much faith in him because of that. But as of now I am willing to let the next couple seasons play out before I freak out on McDermott for not immediately ditching Tyrod and addressing the QB situation in the 1st round this year. It probably helps that I am not real high on is year's QB class either...
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This may be an unpopular post, but hear me out.
Rex Ryan has only been a HC for 6 years in the NFL. Who is to say a HC can't improve after six years and become the franchise HC? Especially when he had 2 years at basically .500 as a Bill. I know he had 6 years to get the mental things down, the timeouts over the middle, the command of the team, but it was only his second year in Buffalo. I think we should've at least kept Rex as a bridge HC until we could find one better. I would hate to walk away from Rex and watch a guy like Rob Chudzinski go 4-12 if a rookie HC doesn't pan out. Let's face it, there just aren't many good NFL HC's out there and maybe if we improve the weapons around Rex, Rob stays healthy etc. he can really shine.
Wouldn't this be a more valid comparison if Tyrod had been a starting QB for 6 years and/or Rex had only been an assistant coach/coordinator for 6 before he came here?
But Rex was already a head coach for 6 years before he got his second shot here, and then got 2 more years as HC in Buffalo... (for 8 years total).
So by this logic, I guess Tyrod should get at least 4-6 more years as starting QB then, huh? lol
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I can understand that, but this is a new report that just came out today. And I've been told that posting links and such and articles is wrong. Bizarre place. It almost seems you can start a made up topic and that's fine, but not one that is credible with proof.
You can post links with a small segment of the article. They just asked that you don't post the entire article due to copy right laws. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.
Also, I enjoyed reading the article you posted. So thanks for sharing.
Tyrod Taylor's Highlights
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by BillsFan4
Also, Tyrod scheduled to make must over $40M total by 2018 on his old deal, and now will make $30M if he is here for both years of his contract the way it is currently written.
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/8/16/12505676/full-tyrod-taylor-annual-contract-breakdowns
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor-7899/