BillsFan4
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So I assume that you'd be fine if it goes the other way then? If Dennison and the Bills staff feel there is Not a QB worth a top 10 pick, let alone trading up for, and pass on a QB in the 1st, you'll be ok with it, right? Because, like you said, who are we to argue...Ok so fans here are smarter than Dennison right? I mean no one here gets paid to scout. No "Expert" in the media is good enough to be a top personnel guy for a team or can't find a gig being one anymore, but hey, they KNOW What QB's are good and not right?
I mean hell, if they knew, wouldn't some team or teams pay them a butt load of money to scout for them? I mean QB is THE #1 priority for every team in the NFL.
So point being, if the Bills staff, including Dennison who has coached some damn good QB's says "Mitchell is a guy who I can train and will take us very far in my system" Then who the hell is to argue? IF they feel he is the guy, then trade up and get the QB, screw what fans and media say.
Edit - I found the answer to my own question a couple pages later. I guess the above opinion only applies when it fits his own point of view... lol
So again the Bills pass on the most important position in all of football, That would be typical. Where did the mantra at OBD come from to push backups at best out as starters and hope we make the playoffs? I mean God knows we will never make or win a superbowl with TT at the helm.
Oh wait, lets wait until next year for the 21st time, oh but with TT we went 7-9 so we are out of reach for a top QB AGAIN.
And the wheel keeps on turning...
What is the definition of insanity again?
Because that has gotten us to the playoffs so many years since our last appearance right? We have fielded TEAMS that should have been in the playoffs and more, but no QB....just like now
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Does he have any other option? McDermott was not Whaley's choice.
Where did you see this?
Everything I've seen has said Whaley was fully on board with McDermott.
He was even the very first person Whaley brought in for an interview (and Whaley said there was a good reason for that).
I have not seen anything that indicates Whaley didn't want McDermott. If you have links to credible sources that say otherwise, I'd definitely be interested to read them.
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The attached WGR link is Paul Hamilton's observation after watching Guhle in Rochester. He also made some positive comments about Casey Nelson. He offered some proposals for a deal for Carolina's defenseman, Hanifin. If you want talent you have to give up talent. The names he mentioned are upcoming players for us.
http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/guhle-looks-good-rochester
Both Borgen and Fitzgerald have been pleasant surprises this season. I didn't expect much from either of them, considering where they were drafted. But they've definitely exceeded expectations. Hopefully they can continue on this development path.
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Pretty sure they did away with that 10 article thing a while ago. I just went and clicked on 15+ different Buffalo News sports articles just to double check and I had no issues.By now, you've proved my point. You said "Sully's article is totally refuted by Vic's," and I twice asked you to show the quotations where it happened and you've twice been unable to do so. Exactly.
And while the thing about the Pegulas may be clear to you it's at best unprovable, basically your opinion. Again, Jerry has said good things and bad things about the Pegulas, mostly depending on what they're doing at the time. Which is what a journalist should be doing. The journalistic reason to say that it would be nice for Terry to show up is that it's a reasonable opinion. It's that simple. A reasonable opinion with which reasonable people could disagree, but a reasonable opinion.
Don't like Jerry? Fair enough. Don't like the article? Again, fair enough. But that's what your objections come down to, that you don't like it, but you're trying to say there's something wrong with it and unsurprisingly not being able to show what.
Again, clicks don't matter to the News. That's not their profit model anymore, they're based on subscriptions.
But as for the rest, exactly. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't like a thread, click to another. I don't know why people don't get this.
So yeah, I would say clicks most likely do matter to them...
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Man, some really good games so far tonight!
That Montreal game was so exciting. Habs tie it with 17 seconds left and then win it in OT. What a game by Radulov! Huge assist on the tying goal and then scores a great OT game winner. He has been a HUGE pickup for Montreal, and he was a totally free asset.
Now St. Louis just took the lead 2-1 against Minnesota with 2 mins left...
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Josh NorrisVerified account @JoshNorris 15m15 minutes ago
Josh Norris Retweeted Cian Fahey
"Kizer’s footwork is special. His feet are always balanced and patient but he knows when to make decisive movements."
A few tidbits:
"Yet despite the constant failures that come with being a draft analyst, there are plenty of people who will try to teach you how to scout. As if there is some formula that works perfectly.
Michael Lombardi is one of those people. Recently Lombardi wrote his seven rules to finding a franchise quarterback on the Ringer. The article primarily focuses on mental attributes and the aesthetics. Most of what Lombardi said sounds great until you realize it can’t actually be used to proactively identify franchise quarterbacks. It relies on catchphrases and tries to examine elements of the person rather than the player.
...
It’s hard to win in the NFL with a quarterback who wastes snaps. Andy Dalton, Blake Bortles and Alex Smith are some of the worst offenders when it comes to this. Tyrod Taylor and Russell Wilson are too but they offset the plays they waste by creating outside of structure more often than other quarterbacks. Wilson and Taylor are great examples of players who have some very specific flaws but those flaws exist in the minority of their performances. The 90+ percent of what they do on the field outweighs the other 10 percent.
I thought that was a great article (maybe because I agree with much of it? lol). Thanks for sharing.
I see a lot of the same problems in Deshaun Watson that he does - the issues with his accuracy, decision making, footwork, ability to play in the pocket (among other things).
I'm not going to lie, I'd be pretty terrified if Whaley drafted him in the 1st, let alone the top 10. There are some things I like about Watson, but I just feel like the chances are high that he might be one of those successful college QBs who's games don't translate to success in the NFL.
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I find physical talents to be so overrated when it comes to QBs. We see guys come and go every year with all the physical tools you could ever want but don't have the accuracy or decision making to consistently succeed.
Agree. Physical tools and "Measurables" are nice and all, and it's great if somehow you can find that QB with all the right measurables/physical tools that's also a fantastic QB, but...
I'll take a little bit shorter, less athletic QB with smaller hands who is smart, accurate and shows some ability to diagnose defensive coverages, go through his progressions + find his open receivers (or throw them open) over a tall, freakishly athletic, physically gifted, inaccurate, 1 read (and then run) QB any day!
It seems like maybe sometimes scouts/GMs/coaches get too caught up in some stupid "QB draft rules" guideline and overlook some good QB prospects because he doesn't check certain boxes.
But maybe they had the wrong boxes on the checklist in the first place...? lol.
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If you were referring to the Bills, I definitely agree (and it's been longer than 10 years). But the Sabres won the President's Cup in '07 as the team with the best record in the entire NHL, and made it to the conference finals that year. They were one of the best teams in the NHL 2 years in a row.I don't read any of it.
I have my opinion of the team based on what I see and that's that.
That said, it's hard not to criticize anything Bills/Sabres related. They have been so irrelevant and inept the past 10 years or so.... not sure why people get all pissed when the local writers criticize them for sucking. And If you don't like it, don't read it.
They were also 1st in the northeast in 09'/'10 and made the quarterfinals, then finished 3rd in the northeast in '10/'11 and made it to the playoff quarterfinals again. I'd hardly call that irrelevant and inept (IMO anyway).
If you want to say the Sabres have been irrelevant the past 5 years or so, I'd agree...
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I absolutely refuse to even click on any article written by Jerry Sullivan or Bucky Gleason. It's my way of protesting the them. I refuse to give them the hits.
I can not stand their attitude, writing styles and constant negativity. No matter what it is, you can count on one of them to find a way to look at it in the worst possible way.
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With the amount of draft picks the Patriots have already given up this offseason (IIRC I don't think they are even picking until the 3rd or 4th round, which is very unusual since Belichick LOVES his draft picks), I don't see them giving up another pick to sign Gillislee.
And even if they did actually sign Gillislee, I don't see it being to an offer the Bills couldn't/wouldn't match.
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Signs you might be in a Cult:
Every stat that is good is because of the player.
Every stat that is bad is explained away.
Coaches held back player's greatness.
Player took a massive paycut because he Billieves.
So does that mean you are in the cult of anti-Tyrod then, since you do the opposite of this?
Every stat that is bad is because of Tyrod and every stat that is good is explained away...
Lol, just messing with ya man.
There is no damn cult among Bills fans, though. There are just fans with different opinions and different levels of love and hate of certain players. Everyone has their own opinion about sports, and everyone thinks their opinion is right, apparently...
there's also ways to go about arguing that opinion, and ways not to.
Blithe insults peppered into straw man arguments masquerading as debate, but designed to elicit an emotional response for your own gratification is, indeed, trolling.
agreed.
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I agree. The fact that Pegs was on his horse checking out these prospects spoke volumes to me. So who do you think it is and what is the value spot? My gut tells me its MT or maybe Mahomes and the spot has to be 10.
I am almost starting to think maybe Deshaun Watson, because nothing has come out about the Bills privately working him out and going to dinner with him.
That comment came out about Whaley being in love with him, then after that we see all the stuff about the Bills scouting every other top QB in this class...
lol. No, I have no idea who their top QB is or where they value him. Personally, I hope they don't value any of these QBs in the top 10.
Also remember, the Bills were rumored to be heavily scouting the QB class last year too (with rumors of them maybe even trading to #2) and Pegula went to dinner with Bryce Petty the year of his draft (and I believe he even flew to Texas to do so).
I mean, I definitely think the Bills are interested in finding their franchise QB in the draft. But I have no idea if they will draft one this year.
They've been putting much more effort into scouting QBs since Pegula took over the team.
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It's funny. Until McDermott said this, I was leaning toward it being more of a smoke screen. But now that he said "it could just be a smoke screen", it makes me think that maybe they are more interested in taking a QB at 10 then I thought they were... lol.Sean McDermott: Bills' meetings with QBs could be 'smokescreen'
But I also didn't hear McDermott's radio interview in full context either. I am just reading a single quote that that ESPN article chose to focus on.
Edit, maybe he's also just trying to get people to think its not a smoke screen, so they're more willing to trade up with the Bills, or ahead of the Bills so a good player maybe falls into Buffalo's lap at #10.
Ah, draft season... lol
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The paycut Tyrod took was a goodwill gesture to the City of Buffalo. So sayeth the CoT.
Am I "CoT" because I believe there is still a chance that Tyrod improves upon last season?
I don't think there is any such things as a cult of Tyrod anyway. He is the Bills starting QB, so people support him and want to believe that he can improve. Just like they want to believe the Bills as a whole can improve, even though history is against it happening. Does that mean we should give up on the Buffalo Bills completely because they have pretty much stunk for the last 17 years?
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Thanks for your very comprehensive response.
Paul Hamilton, WGR's hockey man who follows the team, has often made the same point that you made with respect to buy in. He has frequently stated that what is coached in practice is not always followed in the game by a faction of the players. The problem as I see it from a coaching standpoint is that being too rigid can be just as damaging as being too loose. This is a case where the coaches have to bend just as the players have to adjust to the system.
In analyzing the Sabres and the season the core problem isn't the system as it is the lack of talent, especially on the blue line. Although coaches and organizations have different styles of play the basics are the same for all team. More often than not when analysts talk about not consistently executing properly what they are really saying is that the players on the ice aren't capable of consistently executing the plays.
My take is that the main problem isn't coaching and outsmarting the opposition. It is a talent void in certain areas that over time become magnified and becomes the difference between winning and losing.
I agree that I think there needs to be some give and take between the coaches and players. I read/heard that is an issue with Bylsma, being too unwilling to change certain things. Obviously it's also an issue with some players, as we've heard about it all season.
And I also agree that lack of talent, especially on the blue line, is a major problem ( I do think we have some very nice offensive talent that didn't show as much as it should have this year). I think the injuries were a major problem too.
But having seen similar problems with Bylsma's Penguins teams as I am seeing with the Sabres, I believe that some of the problem is also Bylsma himself. I have no doubt that some better defenseman will make the Sabres a better team, though. I don't know what type of realistic upgrades we can expect to the blue line next year. I am hopeful that the expansion draft will shake a good defender loose for a reasonable price.
Another thing I will mention - One trait I think all good/great coaches have is being able to adapt their scheme to the players they have on their roster, to take best advantage of what they have, and that's one area I think maybe Bylsma seems to be lacking in. IMO part of the issue is that he is asking our players to do things that they are not necessarily best suited to do. I think he could take better advantage of this roster the way it's constructed, instead of trying to rigidly fit it to his system. (I don't know for sure that he is doing this, but it sometimes seems that way to me). I think we have some very nice offensive talent, and I don't think that being ulilized properly.
I don't see any rush to fire Bylsma though. I think he deserves at least another season, and a chance with an upgraded blue line + a healthy roster (as the Sabres were near the top of the NHL in man games lost).
I don't see any real reason to be in a huge hurry to hire a new coach yet anyway. Buffalo is not at the point where they are ready to compete for anything yet. So it's not like we need a coach that can push us over that hump. The rebuild isn't even complete yet. The team is still being built.
But for me to say he deserves anymore than next season, there has to be some actual improvement next year.. That was a big issue IMO, is that I don't think we really seen much growth in much of the roster. Only a small handful of players showed any forward progress in their development. Other guys seems to go backwards, and it seemed like the roster as a whole took a step backwards as well. Was it just injury related? I don't know.
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I learned not to fear the President's Trophy winner decades ago, but the Leafs are up against it...
I would be pretty shocked if the Leafs somehow made it past such an experienced Washington team. But hey, it's the playoffs, you never know! And Washington has crapped the bed in the playoffs many times before...
Either way, it's great experience for the kids on the Leafs.
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Leafs tanked in January 2015, while still in a playoff spot, and have rebuilt from total scratch from execs to coaches to players.
nice surprise it has come together so quick
hopefully squeak out a few wins from the Caps, nothing more expected, but it will be enjoyed if it does.
I don't think it's fair to say they rebuilt from scratch. The Sabres have truly rebuilt from scratch. They have almost nobody left from the previous team.
The Leafs rebuilt their front office and coaching staff, but they did more of a retool of their player roster than rebuilt from scratch. They still have a lot of players left from previous rebuilds - Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Bozak, JVR, Brown... Those are some important leftovers that are contributing greatly to the Leafs current success.
They definitely tanked last year though, and the second half of the previous season. And their turn around has been extremely impressive this season. Babcock is taking full advantage of the roster he has. He has always been a defense first, clutch & grab stayed coach and he has seemed to totally reform that system to fit the offensive ability of his current roster. He is truly one of the very best coaches in the NHL. And I have been beyond impressed with Brendan Shanahan as team president. He is right there with Steve Yzerman IMO, as one of the top (former player) NHL execs. I would take Shanahan here in Buffalo in a heart beat!
NHL Playoffs start tomorrow.
Does anyone care?
Predictions? Rooting for any team?
I'm not a hockey expert, I'll just be cheering on my team.
GO SHARKS!!!
Yes, I absolutely LOVE the NHL playoffs! IMO it is the most exciting playoff sport to watch. I look forward to the playoffs every year.
But hockey is my favorite sport. I have played and/or been involved in the game most of my entire life.
I don't have any predictions yet. Playoff hockey is so much different than regular season hockey. You never really know how a series will go, and there are a number of teams playing some pretty good hockey at the moment.
And since the Sabres aren't in it, I don't really care who wins either. I usually pick a favorite team for each series and root for them.
I can usually find a reason to root for almost any team. I will definitely be pulling for Ottawa though, since our current GM had a huge hand in assembling that team and since I don't like Boston. I don't see them making it past the 1st or 2nd round at best though.
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he was at Kizer and Trubisky but not sure about Mahomes since Monos was mentioned. Maybe had to be elsewherehttp://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texas-Tech-QB-Patrick-Mahomes-works-out-for-11066466.php?t=54dbeecabb438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium
Joe B confirmed that Whaley was
@JoeBuscaglia Though not listed here, a league source tells me #Bills GM Doug Whaley was, in fact, at the Mahomes workout. https://t.co/qPUZf1dBC1
Thanks guys. Glad to hear this.
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He has been at them all.
He was at the Mahomes, Trubisky and Kizer workouts the past few days?
good to know. I hadn't seen any reports that he was there, and that above tweet made it sound like he wasn't.
Where did you see he was there, just out of curiosity?
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@aaron_wilsonNFL
Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes, TE Tyler Scalzi, FB Luke Stice worked out Mon. for Bills' Terry Pegula, Sean McDermott, Jim Monos, per source
Has Whaley been at any of these QB workouts?
Maybe he's firmly on the Watson or bust wagon? lol
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Doesn't the title of this thread already tell us that?
Lol. Oops. Typo. I meant Pegula was NOT there...
i thought he said he actually wasn't there... but I was only half listening.
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John Murphy said today that Pegula was at dinner with Kizer. Just figured I'd pass on that info...
Edit - meant to say that Pegula was NOT at dinner with Kizer. My bad.
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It's very understanding why a player such as Eichel isn't enamored with the system. All his hockey life he was the best player on the ice who roamed and played his own individual game. That worked in the prior pro setting but it doesn't work out well in the NHL. Also, before going to the pros he always played a free styled game that was outside of the unit. That doesn't work well in the NHL.
The HC is requiring the young star to play a more disciplined and structured game on offense and defense. The coach is doing the right thing in coaching Eichel hard to stay within the boundaries of the structure. So it is understandable why the player would be resistant to such a dramatic change being forced on him.
Bylsma is not a fool. He has coached stars such as Crosby when he worked in Pittsburgh and earned a cup. He is not going to restrict such a grand talent by repressing his game but he is not going to allow his game to be so undisciplined that it will hurt his hockey growth and hurt the team.
Let me use Kane as an example that the coach knows what he is doing when handling individual players. No one can deny that Kane's style of lone ranger play was not in the long run going to work. It has taken time but by the last third part of the season Kane was playing a much more integrated and disciplined style of game. That's an example of good coaching.
I am sure that is maybe some of it, but Eichel did play in a structured system in college under David Quinn and has played for a number of well respected coaches, with very good players too (like Auston Matthews and others). He's played in the US National team development program for 2 years, played IIHF worlds, World Juniors, Youth Olympics, USHL, etc etc. I don't think he was allowed to just free wheel and do his own thing all the time in those programs, with other great players on the ice with him.
If it were just Eichel that (supposedly) hated Bylsma's system, I would maybe agree. But even Sam Reinhart supposedly hates it and he plays a more structured game. I've read that it's like half the team that hate his system.
He seems to ask his players to play a very rigid/strict, very boring, risk-free defense first type system that is supposedly overly complicated and strict and you can see how it kills creativity and scoring chances. It's not the type of system we should be running with all the talented forwards we have IMO.
We should be an offensive oriented, puck possession team, that takes advantage of our player's skill sets IMO, not a dump and chase grind it out, puck retrieval type team (Kane is one of the few forwards we have that really fits this IMO, which is why he looks good playing in this system).
IMO What makes the Sabres so awful at possession is their lack of puck support. Watch how many times a defender will go into the zone, retrieve the puck behind the net and then try to make a stretch pass to a forward beyond the blue line in any given game. Those passes rarely connect, and even if they do they're generally not clean, which results in either a turnover or an icing, both of which give up possession. The Sabres lack personnel to make those kinds of transitions work. They need to move up the ice as a team, not with defenders trying to hit forwards halfway down the ice with hail mary bombs.
IMO The defenseman should be more active in joining the rush. We have some mobile defenders. The forwards should also come back to help the defense on transition more.
Our zone entries also kill momentum so often. He asks players to wait at the blue line while a guy skates it through the neutral zone and then carries or dumps it in.
The Sabres have the players (especially at center) to play a more supportive, puck possession type game that IMO would take much better advantage of their skill sets. There were times during the season that they played more this style of hockey, and I thought they looked very good during those stretches.
There were a whole lot of similar complaints about Bylsma's system during his time in Pittsburgh. He came in more than half way through the season and used Michel Theirren's system and won a Cup. The Penguins were already a good team. They had been to the Finals the year before Bylsma took over, and they had some major key injuries during Therrien's last year there. They got a number of good players back from injury just as Bylsma took over. The players had supposedly worn thin on Therrien's coaching style (as often happens with yelling and screaming type coaches), and Bylsma being a new style "player's coach" was a breath of fresh air. He won that Cup playing Therrien's system though.
Then Bylsma changed to his system and never won another Cup.
His system also evolved in his time in Pitts. At first he played a very up tempo, high scoring, exciting system that guys loved playing in (see 2011 Penguins) and had fun. Then he started to go to a more risk-averse, strict, defense first type system (see his last 2-3 yrs with the Pens) that killed much player creativity and you started hearing about how the Penguins hated playing in his system. There were also a lot of rumors he lost the locker room in Pittsburgh. Mario Lemieux even met with Crosby in the visitor's locker room at Madison Square Garden, during that game 6 in the playoffs because ownership was so worried about how Bylsma had lost the team.
I don't mean to sound like I am totally against Bylsma, because I am not. But I have a lot of issues with the system he plays. I just don't think it takes advantage of the type of team Buffalo has. But he is a proven NHL coach and I would like to see what he can do with a better defense and not so many key injuries. He has to get more player buy-in IMO too. When half the team doesn't seem to be buying in to the system, it is doomed to fail no matter what system it is. And you heard this all season long from reporters who watched the Sabres practice. The coaches would have the players playing a very specific style in practice and then when the game started, half the team would abandon that style of play and do their own thing. That's where we need better leadership IMO, or they need to get our current leaders to buy in more.
Sorry this is so long, I actually shortened it up quite a bit... lol. I could go on for days about this stuff. lol
Wow. Any chance that Pegula pays him anyway?
I remember the last Bills game of the year about 15 years ago, the Cincy QB had some big bonus having to do with offensive snaps. It was the only fun being at the game - figuring out if he would get it. What needed to happen, etc..............He didn't get it, but then he got the bonus anyway.
That would be cap circumvention. I'm sure he would if he could.
Not to sound like a jerk, but In a way, it's good for the Sabres that Eichel missed his bonus. If he hit it, the Sabres would have been over the cap for this year, and would have had cap penalties next season.
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For Eichel they should have given him easy bonuses. For example, staying clean shaven could have been one. That thing above his lip is ridiculous and shaving it could have gotten him $2M instead of him missing out by a tiny fraction and losing all of it.
That's not how it works. There are clearly defined entry level contracts/bonuses. Eichel got the max ELC contract with the max bonus structure.
Rotoworld ranks Whaley as worst GM in NFL
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by BillsFan4
We can argue how much say he had in those drafts, but none of us know for sure. They very well could have been all Whaley, but we don't really know.
Also, are you sure about him having the lowest number of starters in his tenure? When is that measured from, 2010-2016/17? Or 2014-2017? Just curious. Do you have a link? Not saying I don't believe you. I'd just like to see the info for myself. I hadn't heard that about Whaley. I'd be interested to read it.
I recently came across an article that ranked the starters from the first 3 rounds from 2010-2015 and it had the Bills 6th in the NFL. It has probably changed since then because the Bills lost some starters to FA, but they were still drafted by Buffalo...
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2016/3/2/11145156/2010-2015-nfl-drafts-team-by-team-draft-success-in-first-three-rounds