BillsFan4
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Not to interrupt all this arguing to post about the original topic of this thread, but...
Since hiring former Carolina Panthers assistant general manager Brandon Beane to replace Whaley, the Bills have added six talent evaluators to their front office who have experience on either director or vice-president levels with other teams. The "all-star staff" assembled by Buffalo has caught the attention of former NFL scout Dan Hatman, who believes the Bills could become a case study that could lead more teams to change general managers after the draft instead of the customary period following the end of the regular season.
It's nice to see Rodak write a positive Bills article. Unusual, but nice.
It's hard to imagine the Bills being actual trend setters for the rest of the NFL though. But you never know I guess.
I do think Beane has hired an "all star" cast on paper. Whether or not the results follow is TBD. But I really like that he's not allowing his ego to get in the way of hiring top qualified candidates. It's eased a lot of my concerns about him. Although he does have some experience with scouting and player evaluation, he came up more on the administrative side of the business. But he has hired a very strong scouting and personnel staff around him. If they all do work together in a collaborative effort, I see good things happening.
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A recent event that has puzzled me is the Jason Botterill hire by the Sabres and the Pegulas. It does not seem to match the Lafontaine, Ryan, and McDermott hires. On the surface it looks like a smart hire where they interviewed the top candidates and came out with a good hire. The only theory that I have is that the Bills chaos allowed the Sabres to not get the same "attention" the Bills were getting.
I actually think it matches the McDermott hire. Both are well educated/smart, driven and detailed. Both work their ass off. Both are well spoken and don't brag. Both had a great reputation around their respective leagues and came highly recommended by the NHL/NFL. Both seem to believe very much in character in their players and coaches. Botterill just said in his most recent interview that he will put a major focus on finding character players in the draft, even if it means sacrificing a little talent, and he said how it's about finding the right players for the Sabres. When I heard that all I could think of was "he sounds just like McDermott, did he steal these lines from him?"
and even the Lafontaine hire I see similarities in just fact that both were ex NHL players and both played for the Sabres.
Why don't you think it matches those hires?
To me, Rex doesn't really match the Lafontaine and mcdermott hires. He's the total opposite of both those guys. The only thing I can see in common between the Ladontaine and Rex hires is that they were both well known names, but that's about it...
I definitely see a lot of similarities between the McDermott hire and the Botterill hire though.
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I just don't see any lessons learned by the Pegulas.
The falling love with Lafontaine after meeting him out. Lafontaine hires Ted Nolan and Tim Murray (probably the best Pegula hire, not hired by them directly!) Lafontaine quits and leaves and they hire no guy to manage the Lafontaine role so that Murray can be the head of scouting and bring in players. Then they fire Murray because they wanted him to do more than what he was hired for!
The falling in love with Rex Ryan when they listen to the money man Brandon and disregard the football GM's advice. Ryan plummets the team and Whaley is fired!
The falling in love with Sean before ever meeting him. His name "jumps out at them" and he is on the yacht hanging out before the football guys ask him a single question.
Pegulas are the problem.
Except that Tim Murray still had Craig Patrick, the guy LaFontaine brought in to help him learn how to run a team. Murray could have chose to use him as a resource. But from all accounts he didn't use him at all. I even heard (on the instagators) that Patrick eventually stopped even bothering to come in anymore because he wasn't being used at all.
It's sure not Pegula's fault that Tim Murray had those resources and chose not to use them...
There was also a lot of stuff written after Lafontaine left about how a big reason why was because PL didn't like that Murray was reporting directly to the Pegula's and was also making moves/trades lafontaine didn't agree with.
I've even heard Tim Murray say that he took this job (and was hired) to be a GM and make those types of decisions. So I'm not sure he felt that being a GM was more than he was hired for.
Having someone over Tim Murray's head seemed to be a problem (or at least it was with Lafontaine and Patrick (who just wasn't used)). So Pegula could have forced someone else onto him, but what type of working relationship would that have resulted in? Murray had a pretty damn strong personality (and a bit of an ego).
Or I guess he could have just fired Murray after being on the job for all of 2 months.
Or he could let Tim Murray be the GM, give him some time and evaluate him on it. It appears Pegula chose the latter.
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Does anyone have a link to the Sirius XM interview with Whaley, or do you need a subscription to listen to it?
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What a useless article that was. They picked out 2 sentences of a 17 minute interview. Not even a link to that SiriusXM show or anything...
All that article did was leave me hunting for the whole interview, or at least an article with more of it.
Here's one that had a lot more substance. Still looking for a link to the entire interview on SiriusXM if anyone has one. I'm going to keep looking too.
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Ya all picks are a crap chute. It's just that taking Myles Garrett may improve Cleveland by a win or two max while hitting on a QB sets the franchise up for years. The Bills are hoping that Taylor can give them an Alex Smith type year so they can get blown out in the playoffs. KC decided it wasn't good enough and Alex Smith wasn't good enough. That's the Bills goal, something that's not good enough.
Getting blown out in the playoffs means that we actually MADE the playoffs, so I'd take it as a first step for a team that hasnt seen the post season in 17 years. I don't see any scenario where the Bills go from never making the playoffs to playing in the Super Bowl in a single season... So playoffs sound like a good starting point to me.
Also, Kansas City spent 4 years with Alex Smith, building up their entire team and having back to back successful seasons before they finally decided to take a shot on a QB high in the draft going into their 5th season. John Dorsey and Andy Reid did not address the QB position in any meaningful way (in the draft) until they were going into their 5th year with the team. They built up the rest of the team first, and got to a point where they knew they had to take a shot at a QB to likely make it any further.
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@siriusXMNFL
FA TE @GaryBarnidge: A lot of teams are waiting to see what they got in OTA's & mini-camp. I have no problem waiting and it's not an issue.
Sounds to me like he has no offers, or no offers he wants yet
I wonder if the Bills made an offer? Maybe they low balled him?
If Buffalo does have an offer on the table, it sure doesn't sound like he's going to take it.
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I was almost going to start a new thread for this, but I remembered about using the search function first... Didn't want to get in trouble! lol j/k
Vic Carucci just finished his 3rd (of 3) excerpts on Wade Phillips book "Son of Bum". It is well worth a read. Here are the links to all 3 parts, and just a few excerpts I found interesting (especially the one about Wade reporting directly to Ralph Wilson and working hand in hand with John Butler to pick players) -
http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/12/phillips-negotiating-ralph-wilson-went-beyond-contracts/
http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/19/phillips-dealing-quarterback-change-wrong-kind-miracle/
'Bruce was so quick and so athletic. What he did really well was just bend, getting low enough that even as tall as he was at six foot four, he could beat a guy around the corner before the guy could get his feet in front of him. He could just go under their hands. They’d try punching at him and he’d duck and go around them.
It was like watching an Olympic runner going around the curve perfectly and then running down the straightaway right to the quarterback.'
'Ralph gave me the additional title of vice president of football operations. He wanted me to answer directly to him rather than the GM.
That wasn’t a problem with John. We worked great together on everything – picking the roster, drafting players, signing free agents.'
'They said we had a divided locker room, with some the older guys wanting Doug to start and the younger guys being behind Rob. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal, but the media obviously did.
Ralph picked a side as well after we played Washington in our last preseason game that summer. Flutie played and drove us the length of the field at the end of the game for the winning points. Afterward, Ralph came up to me in the training room, with lots of people around us, and said, “This Flutie, we’ve got to get rid of him. He can’t play!”
“Mr. Wilson, he took us on a ninety-nine-yard drive for a touchdown to win the game,” I said.
“I don’t care, I don’t care. He ran the ball, he was running with it sometimes".
"But that’s what it takes. That’s the great thing about him. He can make plays whether he’s throwing it or running with it or pitching it out to somebody or anything.”
“Oh, I don’t like him.”
".... Then, Bruce DeHaven, our special-teams coach who had been with the Bills a long time, came up to me and said, “You want to kick it deep?”
“Yeah,” I said.
He came up with another suggestion. “Why don’t we bloop kick it?”
“Oh, okay
'But what we did was completely the opposite, because we blooped it down the middle. Lorenzo Neal caught Steve’s kick and handed off to Frank Wycheck, who threw the ball across the field to Kevin Dyson who ran down the sidelines 75 yards for a touchdown. The officials said it was a legal lateral, but I was standing right across from where Wycheck threw the ball and I know it was an illegal forward pass.
I said, “Well, they’re going to call it back, because we’ve got instant replay.” In fact, I was so sure they would overturn it, I was thinking ahead to the clock needing to be reset to when the penalty occurred. I figured that would still only leave them enough time for one play, so we needed to get our prevent defense ready.
When the official came back and said, “The ruling on the field stands,” I just lost it. I took off my headset and threw it on the ground. All the air just went out of me.
“Oh, God,” was the only thing I could say.'
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I've heard/read conflicting reports about this. I believe Leroi said that Whaley was high on Mahomes and McD wasn't. Then there are articles that say that the Pegulas were the ones that were high on Mahomes and Whaley trading back was the last straw (even though reports were coming out that the scouting staff knew they were getting fired a week before the draft).
Based on how the draft went and the speculation that McD was running the draft, I feel like what Leroi said was more true than the latter.
I hadn't heard/read anything on Whaley being high on Mahomes. The only thing I read about him was that he was "in love" with Watson and knowing the QBs Whaley drafted (or had interest in) in the past I felt him loving Watson was pretty believable.
Ma homes just doesn't seem like the type of QB Whaley would be high on, but who knows. That'd definitely be interesting if true, which is why I was so interested to read it for myself.
I did read about Pegula liking Mahomes though, which I could buy. and also that thing about Whaley trading back being the last straw (which I did not believe either, it seemed like total BS to me).
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No, Whaley wanted Mahomes.
No, Whaley was done once McDermott was hired. Sean demanded full control to take the job. When Sean says the Pegulas fired Whaley and the scouts after the draft and they decided that morning he is lying.
Do you have any links to this stuff? I'd be interested to read em. Thanks.
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Still kind of seems to me like McDermott is betting against Tyrod being his future QB. I don't think they cut 3 years off the guy's contract just because Tyrod said he was open to a restructure and because they felt obligated to save money. Sure, they saved money This Year, but his salary cap hit next year is already higher than it was under his previous 5 year contract, and if he establishes himself as a true franchise QB his cap hit in 2019 and beyond is likely going to be much higher than it was under his previous 5 year deal (whether that's on a new deal, or using the franchise tag).
IMO, if McDermott was truly betting on Tyrod being The Guy, he'd have picked up his option that essentially only tied Tyrod to the Bills for 2-3 years anyway (hen his dead cap would be palatable). But now he's only essentially tied to the Bills for this year only. Cutting him next year costs $8M to save $10M. I'm not saying that he will be cut, just that he can be.
If he truly believes Tyrod is likely the franchise QB, he made a poor, short sighted move IMO.
But personally, I think he's betting against Tyrod being the guy.
Edit - maybe I shouldn't say betting against. But I think they're betting more against him being the guy than betting for...
If you remember me from BBMB, you know I am a Tyrod fan. I argued for him to start over EJ. I argued to keep him, and I've argued that he has ran this (top 10 scoring) offense much better than he gets credit for by some. I also don't think he's as easily replaceable as some think, otherwise we'd have had a QB as good as him in these last 12+ years. I am excited to see what Tyrod does this year, and I still think he has a chance to be our long term solution at QB.
I am just trying to look at the situation as realistically as I can. I'd love it if TT proves to be our future QB, though.
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Both guys understand the importance of a strong staff and aren't threatened by highly qualified people working under them.
Weird feeling the Bills finally got it right.
I haven't felt this type of confidence in what the Bills are doing in, well, I can't remember when... It's been a very long time.
I don't expect things to turn around next season. But I do finally feel like things are headed in the right direction.
I love the way both the HC and GM have filled out their staff. It's been impressive IMO.
Beane was on WGR (again) about 45 min ago and he said they are still working on some guys to get them out of contracts...
That was good interview. I am left more and more impressed every time I hear this guy talk. What a change...
I liked how he said that he won't just fill a job because it's open. He said they will make due this season without a director of college scouting if they don't get one of the guy's they want.
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The #Bills have hired Brian Adams and Marvin Allen as National Scouts.
Marvin Allen and Brian Adams have been hired as Bills National Scouts. Background on both: http://bufbills.co/srAe79
Was Allen still under contract with KC? Or was he available? Is this a demotion in title? Seems like it to me. Director of college scouting to national scout? I was kind of expecting him to be named director of college scouting here...
Anyway, just curious. Definitely happy with the hire.
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Damn, what is it with Bills 2nd round picks (that they trade up for) and knee injuries?
Hope Zay is ok...
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Can't really say I know much of anything about him but it seems like it could be a good hire...
it could be the guy from KC we heard about yesterday but hasn't been announced yet. That is his title there.
That is what I was thinking/hoping too. I was glad when I seen this guy was just the asst. Gave me hope Allen is still coming here.
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Crazy how petty the Tyrod argument has become. People have literally argued every possible thing there is. Nobody is changing their minds about him and if they do it won't be the season starts and yet round and round we go.
This is pretty much the point I am at.
As I'm sure you remember, this whole Tyrod Taylor "war" has been going on since BBMB (it got WAY out of hand there), and now it has spilled over to here, with a lot of the same people on both sides arguing back and forth.
It's absolutely pointless to just keep arguing at this point. Nobody on either side is going to change their minds no matter what is said, that much is clear.
I got dragged into it at BBMB, to the point where I was discussing it almost daily. But I've reached the point now where I hardly ever enter into the TT discussion and if I do I say my piece once or twice and I'm done. (I am pro Tyrod Taylor, BTW as you might remember from BBMB). It's just pointless, it really is.
I really like this place and I absolutely do not want to see it devolve into what the BBMB had become at the end.
The thing is, we are all just fans anyway. We have zero influence in what the team does. What does it matter if other fans don't agree?
I tell ya though - it's a lot easier now to just sit back and let things play out now that I feel like we have a very competent crew at OBD running things. I had little faith left in Whaley to address the QB position.
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Another great hire (on paper) by Beane. Future is looking bright.
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Whatever you say, Boss
Okay then. I guess it's just inarguable as you guys profess.
McDermott lied.
He must have brought up Taylor's name without being prompted to even mention a QBs name on the roster as part of a grand master plan having to do with finding a way to find a Franchise QB not named Tyord Taylor.
God it. Thanks for clearing that up
Simple question for you man. Not trying to start an argument or anything...
Why do you think McDermott decided not to pick up Tyrod's 5 year contract (that would have been very reasonable cap hit for a guy viewed as a franchise QB), and instead gave him a 2 year deal that allows the Bills to move on after this season with only $8M dead cap?
If he were truly convinced that Tyrod is the future QB, why did he kind of bet against him by shortening the contract?
If Tyrod proved to be the franchise QB, it will most likely cost a lot more to keep him now.
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Huge hire if true!
We are putting together an all star front office IMO.
How can anyone be complaining over these hires? Or saying "more of the same"?
I can see being unsure of Beane at first, and what his role was vs McDermott. But hiring Schoen, Gaine and now Allen... I just don't see any way that they are just "yes men" to McDermott. They are all WAY too well respected around the NFL to come here and not have actual input into the players we pick. IMO They wouldn't have taken this job if that were the case.
I am thrilled with this front office staff. So far I couldn't have asked for more. I know it's early yet, but so far I think this is looking like the best front office staff we've had in decades. Obviously we have to wait and see what they do in Buffalo, but all of these guys have a good track record of identifying talent (especially Gaine and Allen, who I'm more familiar with than Schoen)
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This is mine:
1. Tyrod Taylor [/size]
2. Cardale Jones[/size]
3. Nathan Peterman[/size]
4. T.J. Yates (Will be Released)[/size]
5. Josh Woodrum(Will be Released)[/size]
Yep, I feel the same.
I can see that happening
Really? I don't see it.
Switch Yates and Cardale, and I see that as the most likely outcome. Not that I wouldn't love if Cardale could grab the #2 spot. I would.
IMO I just think he is so much farther behind Peterman in his development (even though this is his 2nd year here) that I can't see him beating him out, let alone both Peterman and Yates. I think Cardale's in for a big fight to even make this roster.
Having Tyrod, Peterman & Cardale (or Cardale and peterman) earn the top 3 spots would be what's best for the Bills future. So that's definitely what I'm rooting for.
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He may, in fact, see the "big picture" much more than people think. He is a rookie HC with a defensive background and obviously no GM experience who was put in charge of a draft. Was this wise of the Pegulas? Probably not, but it is what it is. But no matter what, he certainly isn't the right person to be drafting a QB at #10 overall. Perhaps he realized his shortcomings (a trait his predecessor could have used BTW), traded down and selected a player at a position he was comfortable selecting. Some say selecting a DB in that draft in the first round wasn't smart either, but he is essentially a DC not a GM and that is what it is as well. Selecting a player at a position he was knowledgeable in, and at the same time securing an additional first round pick for the GM to use in the next draft may well demonstrate that he sees the long term big picture very well.
That's a damn good point.
Also, maybe his trust (or lack there of) in Whaley and his scouting staff's evaluations played a part, too.
And if he knew Whaley was out the door right after the draft, maybe he didn't want a new GM coming in and being tied to a top 10 QB pick that he had no part in making.
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IIRC Kraft gave Belichick full control of the entire football operations when he was hired in 2000 and he has been the de-facto GM ever since. Belichick then chose to hire Scott Pioli to help him out. So he had much more power than McDermott when he was hired in NE.He also didn't get to choose his GM either when he got hired. He had to earn that right over time, they didn't just give him the keys to the kingdom (or however you want to word it) until he had a track record of success. I imagine a big part of it had to do with the teams kept hiring away all their assistants, coordinators, and front office people as well.
This guy has never been a head coach in the NFL for so much power and authority to be handed to him.
Belichick has always had control over the football operations with the Patriots. Kraft immediately gave him a ton of power.
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This guy is well respected, so I trust what he says -Lateral move to go from Houston to Buffalo? Makes me wonder why. Did the Pegulas throw a pile of cash his way or something?
Neil Stratton @InsideTheLeague
"Had heard this was coming. Seemed unlikely due to lateral move, but league sources made it clear Gaine was seeking a fresh start w/#Bills. "
Sounds like maybe he was ready to move on from the Texans, plus wanted to be a part of the Bills.
I also heard Beane on the Nohn Murphy show today. He said they are going to give Gaine even more responsibility than what he had in Houston. He said they plan to help Gaine grow and, basically, ready himself even more for a GM job.
He did also get a raise and a promotion. So I'm sure it was a lot of things that factored in.
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Doesn't seem like coach speak to me... if anything it seems like Beane almost made him walk back his enthusiasm right after that response and McDermott's response right after that was the diplomatic one.
Sure seemed like genuine enthusiasm as his initial response.
But to each his own.
I absolutely do not think McDermott will hesitate moving on from Taylor if he's disappointed in his 2017 season. But it sure doesn't seem like this is the open competition some believed was being advertised.
Oh, I wasn't trying to say it will be some big, open competition. I think Tyrod is the starter unless/until someone legitimately Takes the starting job from him. I don't see it being an open competition like in 2015 when TT earned the job. I think Tyrod will run with the 1's.
I was just speaking to that stuff about him saying Tyrod is our QB of the future. I think that is still very much TBD, and I don't think McDermott is settled on him being the Bills QB of the future. I think unless Tyrod unequivocally locks down that starting job and leaves absolutely no doubt that he is the franchise QB of the future, they will be looking hard at drafting a QB high in next year's draft.
Look at it this way Transplant - if he were so sure that Tyrodmis the Bills future QB, then why did they insist on re-negotiating Tyrod's long term deal? You'd think he'd want Tyrod,locked in for 5 years on a very reasonable starter salary. But instead they made it a 2 year prove it deal that kind of bets against Tyrod and allows the Bills to walk away after this season if they really want to.
If he does very well, he will be making more per year then he would have on that long term deal and it will likely end up costing the Bills more than it would have if they just picked up that deal.
Rumor- Bills will entertain trade offers for Watkins?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
glad to see someone else notice this!
I started looking right away when I seen a guy named "Granty1983" wrote the article. I said, who TF is that?! and how does he know all this stuff he claims to know? No links to any sources in the article either.
Ive never heard of this site before and have no idea if he/they truly have any real sources. Have they ever broke a story in the past?
If not, this article/site probably amounts to no more than a fan who is purely speculating. But hey, it's good for conversation in the offseason I guess... lol. I'm sure not going to get all upset or worried over it though, and start cursing the Bills and McDermott/Beane. Not yet anyway.