shoshin

Fox correspondent eviscerates Trump's lead attorney's press conference today.

Do you have a link to where Trump said to shut down NYC? No one knew what was happening in March. We lacked a pandemic response to handle this, and our citizens were not educated enough to follow what they would have said anyways. I don't blame Trump for Covid. I don't blame Cumo or Wolf for sending patients to nursing homes 4 weeks into the crisis when we thought we'd have no beds and ventilator shortages. We were totally unprepared and had no idea what we were dealing with in March and April. People made some bad decisions and it wasn't until about June that the chaos of the moment started to clear. We could have take national action in March and gotten this under control. 100% Cuomo could have saved lives by pushing hospital capacity well past what it was made for and not sent patients to nursing homes. Obama could have made sure there were huge storehouses of PPE. Doctors could have figured out steroids work better and that laying patients on their backs was terrible. The bad decisions go on and on. From June on, we needed a more unified national approach on a leadership level, just to unite America vs the virus for a spirit. Instead it turned into the blame game.

Totally fair and I was flip about my China comment. I look more to Korea since they are a democracy. A totalitarian state should be able to deal with its citizens easily. Tell them what to do and if they don't do it, shoot them.

To be fair, the other lawyer has a stellar resume, though he does not seem to have any election experience. He's just a well-heeled conservative-activist litigator. I posted upstream but in case you missed it, our process is run by little trained underpaid people and it's still much better in 2020 than any year before. We've overcome chads, ballot-box stuffing in the big boss era, and horseback riders with handwritten ballots. I'll take today's results over the others and this gap is "yuge." This one is done. Trump lost. 45 times we've had a smooth transition of power. Trump wants to break the trend.

I don't believe much from China. Korea is the country we need to learn from to prepare for the next time this happens. And next time, it may not be such an insignificant virus. 350,000+ Americans will disagree by the time this is over but Covid is a lot better than it could have been. Imagine a deadly flu strain that was taking kids in the same way this took the elderly and you get the picture. The Biden administration needs to have a team of pandemic experts sit in a room with their Korean counterparts and do one thing: Take notes.

We won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Well we won't be civil because they're not civil Going somewhere productive?

Wouldn't surprise me but I hope not. I hope the parties find a way bit by bit to regain some semblance of adult behavior and civility.

The answer to "we disagree" is not to encourage people to run off to safe space. The better choice would be to try to encourage civil dialogue wherever you find anyone. The echo chambers solve nothing except to create more echos and myopic thinking.

One of the reasons many backed out is because of personal attacks they got, as well as threats. Totally despicable behavior, fanned by The Lincoln Project, a group I saw as an important, effective, and good tool in defeating Trump. But populism often goes too far and this in this case, they did IMO.

The National Review, I am sure, is part of the Deep State swamp FoxNews leftist state these days.

What I'm saying is that you can never prevent every human error. I worked at the polls. I'll use rough numbers to explain an error that happened. We were given 500 blank ballots. We recorded 300 votes in our machine, and also had a handwritten record of 300 people voted. At the end of the night, we had 201 ballots when we should have had 200. Somehow, there was 1 extra ballot. There are a lot of reasons this could happen, and we think we figured out why but the bottom line on this is: There was no fraud, just a screw up somewhere. Every year, and particularly every 4, we set up pop-up Starbucks's manned by minimum wage workers with almost no training and that's how we do our democracy. It works because we trust our neighbors and our neighbors do their best. This year had more poll watchers and more active (Read: annoying, yes both sides!!) poll watchers than any year I've EVER seen. Because of all of that and understanding the imperfections inherent in the way we do things, I believe that every year, our system has gotten better: from ballots written by hand and counts delivered by horse-riders to hand-votes through the big boss era to hanging chad ballots to the all-computer systems that had few safeguards to our multi-check systems that we use today... if I could pick one era in which our elections are most likely to represent accurately the will of the people, it would be this one, bar none. The sore loser often cries foul play. With Trump, given who he is, that was inevitable. But in America, the loser has almost always conceded to the will of the people, respecting the imperfections inherent in a system that can never be perfect. And this concession is critical to the peaceful transfer of power that has happened through 45 presidencies.

I don't know what the media called Bush back then. IT seems you presented an article that didn't call him Pres-Elect. I certainly always thought of him as such back then. The guy with the most votes at the end of the counting is usually the winner, even when there's a Hail Mary recount in Florida. Gore tried a 90 yard Hail Mary. Trump's Hail Mary is being thrown from Indonesia by the wrong Josh. Hey, you said that "He has some of the most vaunted legal minds in the county working on his behalf" and as support, linked to someone who hasn't argued an appellate case in 14 years. And I notice you did not link to Rudy. Trump has a legal team, of that I am sure. "The most vaunted legal minds," of that I am dubious. Wait let me get this right: A predominantly D county released its vote--at a certain time--after counting them and that's proof of a conspiracy? Critical thinking is dead.

You uhhh left out the data. Probably just an oversight.

The errors alleged in Wayne County were present in the neighboring counties (Trump counties). This came up in court yesterday or the day before--of course Trump attorneys don't want to recount those counties for ANY reason because that would ruin the narrative that only errors arise in Biden counties. The Trump attorneys are only challenging votes where there are predominantly Biden votes, and they are finding vote errors amounting to hundreds of votes, AT BEST, yet he's lost by multi-tens of thousands in most states. Even the hanging chad recount barely found enough errors to move a fart across a room. Ms. Powell's most recent appellate decision, according to that, is 2006. More recent than Giuliani's Circuit Court appearance before yesterday, I'll give you that.

I thought mask-wearing was ridiculous in March and April. I just couldn't conceive of wearing one. Now I wear one all the time like most people. Why? I got smarter and more used to it.

There is not much to do. The virus is virus-ing. The thing that Trump is incapable of is uniting people in spirit. And the Dems do no better with stupid crap like mask-posturing. Just talk up how it's a small part of the overall effort and you aren't macho not wearing a mask. We were never going to be Korea. This pandemic should lead to better education of politicians and citizens for next time, but given the push back of "I want to be me, I'm American" this time around, the idea that we'd have ever achieved what Korea did was impossible in 2020 with our current leadership (not just Trump). The post-mortem of this will lay blame on Obama, Trump, Cuomo, Desantis and plenty of others. As a country, as a citizenry, we were caught with our pants down.

Some. Deaths per capita. A national strategy on the virus makes the most sense. Dispatch the vaccine to the hottest spots, for application to those most at risk and/or most necessary to keep the country running. Nursing homes before pre-schools, doctors before teachers, teachers before lawyers, etc. To think that state governments have the expertise on vaccine distribution in a pandemic is naive. That's why the Trump administration has enlisted the Army to help with logistics of delivery, and hopefully those delivery logistics include more than just getting doses out in equal shares to North Dakota and California.

You're having a federalist vs. anti-federalist discussion, one that Washington/Hamilton/Adams/Lincoln mostly have won and Jefferson/Madison et al for the most part lost a long time ago. There is some interesting argument to be had on it and what's left of the 10th amendment but the Republicans believe in federalism when it suits them and the Dems are anti-federalist when it suits them. No party claims to bathe in ideological purity when it comes to federal/anti-federal.

Trump did the things he needed to help fund vaccine research for sure. And Biden when Biden credited the companies and workers on Monday, Trump credited Trump (of course). Leadership and building unity around getting through this...no one will credit Trump for that. It was clear early on that we could have easily made this America vs. Virus and if he'd done that and messaged togetherness around that (if he had any credibility on talking about America for all of us), he would have won easily. But that has never been his approach and by the time we got to March 2019, he wasn't about to change his tune. The vaccine and warmer weather will change the death counts and hospital rates. Political party doesn't matter.

Some real gems early in this thread.

I call goalpost move on this. It was supposed to disappear on November 4. That's passed and guess what: The virus is still a big problem. The virus will most assuredly start to become less of a story early in Biden's term. Vaccines plus end to winter will make getting the US economy back on track the main story by summer.

Can you provide a link for this, because I can provide you a link to some of the things Trump's lead attorney (who hadn't appeared in federal court in almost 30 years) said yesterday in the Circuit Court in PA that would contradict that.

Proof of fraud remains with the people making the allegations. So far 0-fer-78 million votes and counting. At best they have found a few hundred errors, and it's not even clear they benefitted Trump vs. Biden. I thought Trump had a shot at winning. I can't believe Trumpers are su surprised that Biden won. It was close. You win some, you lose some. In all my presidential votes cast, this is the first time I voted for the guy who won, and although I've never wanted the guy who won before, I've always acknowledged his victory. And many times, the election was a lot closer than this one. Trump just has cast quite a spell on America, both over those that support him and those that oppose him. He IS the danger of populism.

She's like the post office guy recanting his recant. Quite a hero.

Yup. Masks, distancing smartly, keeping people's other health in good working order--this is about all we can currently do to help get through this. Keep the economy as open as we can and if people don't want to partake in something, let them. The biggest crime in this remains the schools. If schools were all open, 75% of the mental health pain, I believe, would go away. I'm 50: Cheat me out of some pleasures in a pandemic and I can deal with it. But don't do it to my kids, our kids.