GunnerBill
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All have similar catch rates. All busts, apparently.
Do you think any of them have had good years? Fuller was being suggested as the "impact" guy the Bills should have drafted.
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Marshall, Hurns, Robinson, Kearse.
What about them? None of them were in this year's draft.
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As a former sports journalist I can confirm the questions that get asked at Bills press conferences are largely nonsensical and poorly thought out.
I hate a reporter just making a statement and then saying "can you talk to that". It is lazy, half assed, **** journalism.
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Fuller isn't having a good season statistically. He has a 47.7 percent catch rate, which is absolute bottom of the barrel.
This. If that name is the best people can do it is laughable.
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The thing is, we traded down and took EJ. If the Bills brass thought EJ was a franchise qb, they might have been willing to trade UP and take him, or so one would think. They probably thought that Geno Smith was also a hot prospect and were willing to roll the dice on losing Manuel.
Either way it was poor scouting and poor building.
I don't subscribe to his view. I think it is an equally reasonable interpretation to think they didn't love any of the Quarterbacks in that class felt EJ was the best of the bunch but understood it was something of a reach and so were trying to maximise their value.
Remember they turned down offers to move down further which if they really did have EJ level with Geno or Barkley (I actually think the latter is more likely I don't think the Bills were ever high on Geno) they may well have accepted.
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Quick, name the difference makers who were picked after #18 this year.
That is part of the issue here - I had Shaq as a top 10 talent and I am not backing away from that... but those that didn't want him because he was not an elite playmaker - who did they want? Treadwell? Doctson? Artie Burns?
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Your point brings up the issue of Whaley's ability to evaluate qbs. EJ should have had a third round grade in that draft year. He was at best a developmental qb who was years away from being a finished product. EJ's flaws of accuracy and reading defenses are the type of flaws that usually are not correctable. The bottom line is that misjudging on the qb talent had repercussions down the line that influenced the direction of the draft and the success of the team.
Dak Prescott was a fourth round selection by the Cowboys so we would have had to have taken him in the third round. Whaley took the DT from Ohio State. My point is that opportunities existed for this franchise to acquire good qb prospects. The problem is that the opportunities have not been seized. That is a repeated pattern of action for a position that has to be secured in order to achieve a modicum of success. A generation has gone by and this bedraggled organization still hasn't learned that essential lesson. Enough is enough!
We have to be better at evaluating Quarterbacks - no argument from me there. The strategy that led to a reach in a bad class was at least as big a problem as the evaluation of EJ himself. But whilst Whaley has his fingerprints over the EJ pick - the strategy was Buddy's and he was pretty clear about it, he wanted to "build" a team before he got his Quarterback. Most of us I think would prefer to say get the Quarterback and build around him... but then you see the success Dak has had (and I still say Dak was not an elite prospect even if he turns into an elite player) going into a team that was already built around him and it does make you reflect on Buddy's thinking a bit - though of course the reason Dallas could build the team first was precisely because it HAD a quarterback.
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As I stated in a prior post Whaley was aggressive in the Watkins deal. It wasn't worth it because the process he took was backwards. You have to solidify the qb position before you can get maximum production out of the receiver positions.
He thought he had his Quarterback in EJ and that an elite playmaker would elevate EJ's play. Clearly that was wrong but the thought process was as you suggested.
Trubisky I have not seen a lot of but I am not sold. I will be honest and say I am not even sure what is I am not sold on.... I definitely need to go and watch more of him though.... I haven't seen enough to try and grade him yet.
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no way he falls that far! Top 5 pick because of all the teams at the top that need QBs.
I agree... there are people who think he does. I would take him if I was Cleveland.
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That stat would be useful if they only measured plays where he throws from the pocket. When you have a qb that leaves the pocket (probably the most in the NFL) you are going to have that stat skewed way to the long side. Which then makes it a meaningless stat for judging how good the offensive line is at run blocking. Every time Tyrod leaves the pocket due to pressure, he extends the time to throw by at least 2 seconds on that play. That should be a negative against the offensive line, not a positive.
But Dave he flushes out of the pocket when there is time so often. The Cincinnati game I went and broke down the film play by play and he abandoned clean pockets 5 times. The Jacksonville game there was 4 occasions. There was an example against the Steelers where he abandoned a clean pocket straight into a sack from a linebacker who was playing contain. That is Tyrod letting down his blockers not the other way around.
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BB - Watson is very mobile but have you watched him play? Can't see how he would ever not be considered a passer first.
Yep. The same got thrown at Mariota "oh all he does is run" and I consistently said on here Mariota is a passer who can run, not a runner who can throw and I'd have taken him #1 overall over Jameis (not that I didn't rate Winston highly I just loved Mariota). I don't think Watson is quite the polished prospect Mariota was - his decision making is not as consistent - but I think he throws with anticipation, he is accurate (his turnovers in my opinion are almost all poor decision making not poor accuracy), he wants to play from the pocket, he has a terrific arm and he can use his legs which (especially early in an NFL career) buys him some time while he develops that polish in the pros.
The grade I have on Watson at this moment is higher than the grade I had on any quarterback in last year's class and than everyone but Mariota and Winston in the 2015 class.
If DeShaun Watson falls to the Bills in the first round and they don't pick him..... that will be a huge error in my opinion. I would turn the card in inside 10 seconds in that scenario.
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He might be a bust
A little early to worry about that. Shaq will be fine.
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In terms if of the 4 rushing failures.. the first two were pre the coordinator change. The Miami game we abandoned the run. MG was running okay they just got away from it it was ALynn's worst game as a coordinator.
Against Pitt they got down big early but I will agree the Steelers shut the run game down somewhat.
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As for the consensus..........I don't recall EVER hearing anyone say that they didn't think he'd be the same player.
Not from the talking heads - no. That was the concern teams had though. The fact that the talking heads had more info on Shaq than Jack doesn't make any difference to how teams evaluated them.
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Yes, some of the backups can hold their own against bad teams. However, RG Miller and RT Mills are simply not good enough to be starters.
You are wrong.
Miller has had an outstanding year in the run game and has improved to an average pass blocker. Mills is an average run blocker who struggles in pass pro.
Our line has been good I'd say it has been top 10 this year.
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So it could go either way
Yes and the point is it is always uncertain at this stage - next year even more so..... but still fun to look ahead.
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Not a Watson fan, don't trust athletic QBs, needs to be a passer first. Could he be Dak, maybe? But more likely TT jr.
haven't heard about USC QB thing.
Every QB is different and I don't base my assessment on what school they come from. This kid so far is the real deal and has all the goods. Every yr is different too so who knows how next yr goes.
Watson is a passer. He is very definitely a passer.
I am only being slightly tongue in cheek about Donald.... I have only seen him once and wasn't blown away I have to say. I do think USC Quarterbacks generally get hyped up because they play for USC. Matt Leinart was talked about as a consensus #1 pick the year before he came out, Barkley was talked about a year out as a consensus #1 pick, Kessler was seen by some as a top 10 pick after his sophomore year too.
I didn't like any of them very much. Donald will ultimately succeed or fail based on him and his own game not the games of those who came before him but the thing all those above had in common was playing for USC gave them a hype that outweighed their talent.
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It is just supposed to be a bit of fun. This time last year I was quite vocal in saying the 2016 schedule looked rough but teams do change over the offseason and by the time we did our start of season predictions I had both Arizona and Cincinnati taking steps back and us winning both games. I think the 2017 schedule is even more uncertain than most at this stage.
For 2016 there was New England x2 Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Seattle who I was pretty sure were going to be good and San Francisco, LA and Cleveland who I was pretty sure would be bad. That was half the schedule where I thought we could know what to expect.
In 2017 I would put New England in the definitely good category and probably Atlanta too and after that there is a lot of questions marks. Are Miami and Tampa flash in the pans or for real? Will the real Carolina please stand up? Who is playing QB in Denver? Will New Orleans out of cap hell load up for one more run with Brees? Can Kansas City keep doing all their scoring on D and ST? Can Oakland keep pulling out games in the 4th quarter with a porous defense? Who is coaching the Chargers and the Jets and if we play them the Colts and Bengals?
By September it could look a daunting schedule or it could look an easy schedule.
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DeShaun Watson is the best Quarterback in this class. There is something to what Blokes says about people not seeing progression but I have still seen this kid make more big boy NFL throws than any other Quarterback out there in college. My grade on him at the moment would have him 3rd over the last 3 years behind just Winston and Mariota.
I personally don't think Watson is a top 5 pick but I'd be comfortable taking him anywhere else - however in a world where Goff and Wentz went #1 and #2 overall DeShaun Watson could go off the board as early as Cleveland. Hell if I was in that war room coming off 0-16 and without a Quarterback in decades I'd probably turn in the card for Watson too.
If he is there when the Bills pick I am absolutely adament that he should be the selection.
Trust me Darnold makes the 2018 class great.
A USC Quarterback being hailed as a sure fire #1 selection the year before he might come out...... now where have I heard this one before....
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We are in agreement on Jack.
And my reason is that players like Jack are really what first round picks are for.........finding potentially transcendent talents.
Except so far the league consensus on Jack looks right. Nothing like the same player as pre-injury. There would be equal criticism if not more by this point if that is where we had gone with our first round pick.
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You're confident Matt Moore could go 15-13 over two seasons and lead a top ten scoring offense both years? I suppose he could.
I wanted us to go for Matt Moore when we traded for Cassel.
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Yes you have been clear about your expectations. Many are intentionally vague.
Short of being a bust.......one of the worst scenarios is watching a player you drafted for immediate need scuffle for a couple years then do like Melvin Ingram and put together 17 sacks combined in the last two years of his contract......not the ceiling of your expectations but teasing at the production you expected every season. That's going to end poorly either way for San Diego, IMO.
I know I am repeating myself but I don't think he was just drafted for need. I think the Bills probably evaluated him like I did and if they did he is well worth the #19 overall pick. He was the best player on my board and I suspect on theirs and if he becomes what I and they expect then as a productive pass rusher he would be at a position worth the investment.
I agree if we get Upshaw production it was a poor pick - and I was dead against Upshaw when a lot of fans wanted him. I am not as familiar with Ingram I must confess.... I haven't in the last couple of years found much cause to watch many Chargers games.
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Who is the player you would compare to your expectations for Shaq?
I get the feeling that a lot of Shaq fans have used their lack of commitment to expectations for Shaq as a disguise for their backpedaling. Like.......now it's OK that this year has been pretty much a wash.
I know you aren't one of them but I am interested in what you actually expect.
I agreed with you when you set out your expectations for him being judged a successful first round pick. He needs to be in that 8-12 sack range when playing a full year - that was your success criteria and I concur that is a reasonable base against which to judge. I just don't think judging him against that this year when he missed all of camp all the install and half of his rookie year is fair. If Shaq plays 14-16 games next season I will expect him to be in that range and if he isn't I think it might indicate that the Bills (and I - I had him as a top 10 player no rowing back going on here) got their talent evaluation wrong.
I am happy to be held to that. I am still very confident in what I see.
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I voted to fire - because if I was in charge I would fire him and I would have fired him after year 1.
I do actually think he has done a better job this year and I wouldn't be as angry if he was retained as I was last year... so long as the organisational dysfunction was resovled by having him report directly to the General Manager. But I do think the end is nigh and he has nobody to blame but himself. Not Mario, not Jim Schwartz, not Greg Roman, not Tyrod Taylor, not Doug Whaley or Doug Marrone or Russ Brandon anyone else he has attempted to shift blame onto at any stage in the past 2 years.
Shaq Lawson - let's do this
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by GunnerBill
I was a big Deion Jones guy. The Pioli and Dimitroff dream team are in charge in Atlanta.... but nobody from the Belichick tree ever amounts to anything. I heard that on here.