GunnerBill
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Posts posted by GunnerBill
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4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
He’s going to be their WR3 immediately, plus he wants to be in Miami.
He wanted to be in Miami 5 days before a playoff game in New York back in the day if my memory serves 🤣
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10 minutes ago, White Linen said:
Allowed to leave doesn't make any sense. His contract was up.
He was traded from the Falcons. The Browns essentially hacked a year off his contract and yes, with the Panthers it was a 1 year deal. Allowed to leave in that it was three different situations in the three different places. I was trying to find a form of words that covers them all.
4th team in 4 years. They are the facts.
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17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:
From what I saw of ravens he was good last year and as importantly he looked engaged
Yes he is older and not as physically capable but he's still got the complete repertoire of an NFL wideout. It's not a Davis situation where the guy's ability isn't commensurate to his spot on the depth chart...similar to Sanders who played a very useful WR3 role in the 2021 offense, a guy like Beckham Jr can definitely contribute in the right offense imo
Yea he isn't a difference maker anymore. But as a complimentary player he is still a legit NFL starting wide receiver.
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4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:
PFF did their top 101 players of 2023 a couple of months ago. The Bills had 1 guy on the list. They were the 2 seed in the AFC. They lack top end talent and have suffered from it. Josh covers so many problems with this team. We have but a roster full of overpaid grinders. Hopefully his reset changes the way that the Bills allocate resources. Fill the depth with cheap labor and pay for the top of the roster.
Yea the lack of top end talent has been the main thing stopping them going further IMO. Needing someone to make a play for them at the critical moment. Those KC games come down to a play here and there. They have every single time since the AFCCG where we were well beaten and still short of their level. Every game against them since has come down to a couple of plays. And while we have made them in the regular season we haven't in the post season and Kelce, Hill (before he left) and Jones have.
If this ends up being something of a hole filling meat and potatoes draft that allows them to use the capital they have built next year to get a difference maker or two that will be one thing. But it felt very hole filly, quite need driven and there remain questions about our ability to find game changers.
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1 minute ago, HaldimandBills said:
It is a reload season. I am struggling to see where these holes you wanted fixed could be fixed in the 3rd and 4th round vs. a rotational DT and 2nd RB? The Dend value dropped significantly after the first four were off the board. Oline could've been a potential pick but I like Carter more than anyone in the 3rd round. Receiver. Maybe but people became obsessed with the double dip and ignored everything else.
I agree the DE value did drop off. I think most of the next tier of edge guys were 3-4 OLBs not base DEs. I actually like Solomon at the value they took him.
I was not arguing for double dip at receiver just for the sake of arguing it. I am arguing it because I think the value there was better than a rotational DT (you are entitled to like Carter better than I do but I still disagree) there was better value at OT. There was better value at corner. These are premium spots and we took the low hanging fruit at backup DT and backup RB because we had immediate holes there.
It's that type of need based drafting that get you in trouble in the long run.
9 minutes ago, White Linen said:I don't think it's that big of a deal. He was with one team since drafted for 6 years. Then two others on one year deal. He's counting us as the 4th to make it sound more dramatic. Loads of players have that type of resume.
He has been allowed to leave by the Falcons, Browns and Panthers. It is not exactly the Chiefs, 49ers and Cowboys. How many guys with that resume make a difference in the NFL week to week?
And I loved Deion Jones coming out. But it is a reality that he isn't that guy now.
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2 hours ago, HaldimandBills said:
See. I think Carter is an upgrade over the rotational DT's we had last year and will prove to be an excellent rotational DT. I was disgusted by the lack of push the DT had in that Chiefs game and I think Oliver was over used down the stretch. The Bills had next to no options in the way of a decent pass rush 3 Tech behind him. Time will tell, but the Bills must maintain consistent pressure up the middle come playoff time. Thats why for me DT was a must and Carter had solid production in College.
Short yardage RB who can also take significant snaps receiving out of the backfield is an integral part of Joe Brady offense and will also prove valuable. I am not a fan of pushing Josh Allen into a pile 10 times a game. I also think the Bills become less predictable on offense with a RB like Davis in the redzone. For this reason I also think this was an important high value pick. Certainly more valuable than a 4th round receiver.
Time will tell on who is wrong about our recieving room. Your argument is lack of production most likely means bottom 3. That's one way of looking at things but again the off season isn't over. Bills have an additional 10 million coming up soon. I am of the belief Beane knows he has a guy signed after June 1st. I could be wrong but that 10 million isn't going to go unused and receiver seems most logical to me.
I believe Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, and Kincaid as receiving threats is a heck of alot better than Diggs, Davis, Isiah Mckenzie, and Knox. Thats who we had in 2022 when everyone thought we were going to win it all.
I also think this is a two step program for Beane. We have 1 (1st) 2 (2nds) 1 (3rd) and 4 (4ths) next draft. Currently sit 15 million under the cap in 2025 vs. 50 million over this season. We have alot of room to add pieces to this team with only Brown and Rosseau needing significant new contracts.
You are right that our backup DTs last year sucked. I said they would when we wasted money signing them. But when we have holes at premium spots backup DT didn't seem super value (and I am not high on Carter). Similarly at backup RB I do like Davis just isn't great value. If you were spending a 4th on a first string running back fair enough. For a second string short yardage back that to me isn't good asset allocation. In six drafts it is a second, two thirds and a fourth on running backs. The most devalued position on the football field.
On receiving room my argument is absolutely lack of proven production equates to bottom three. Sure Coleman could end up a stud rookie. Sure Samuel could have a career year (if he stays healthy I think that is very likely actually), sure Kincaid thrown in adds a dimension. But at the same time do I think it is better than the 2022 receiving room? No. In 2022 they had an elite player. That to me matters more than anything else. Elite players win. Nobody in this group is approaching that.
As for cap - the $10m we having coming off is needed for our draft class and BEFORE we sign a single draftee of 2024 we have only $5m in space (not $15m) against the projected cap for 2025. Of course the cap could be higher. It was a bit this year. But that isn't a great basis on which to be planning.
Don't get me wrong I am not a negative nelly. I think this Bills team will still win 10 or 11 games. I think the offensive line could end up as a sneaky strength. I am less bothered about the Morse loss than a lot of people. I think Ed Oliver will have another good year and with Milano, Bernard and Taron at the second level we will be good there too. And Cook, Shakir, Kincaid, Brown etc can all take another step. But there are reasons - wide receiver, edge, safety - to believe this team will have some issues in 2024. I think it is a reload season.
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Don't mind any of these guys actually as guys to compete for the backend jobs in those rooms. Smoot is the one I give the best chance of making the roster. But I see the sense in all 3 moves.
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9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:
Well, he was 19 years old at the time and coming off playing for MSU's basketball team in the spring of 2022 (they lost to Duke in the second round of the tournament). Cut him a little slack.
I have cut him slack. I think the potential he has is in the "plus" column for him. I think physically there is more to come and there is room for some coaching on the nuances. I recognise that in my initial evaluation summary of him above.
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4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
Agree that the full picture of why the Bills called Klein is more nuanced than I presented, but I think the point stands that the Bills went into the season presenting Dodson and Spector as a serious options at MLB. Early in the season, when we were ahead in a couple games they pulled Bernard and Milano for Dodson and Williams. When Bernard went down vs Cincinnati, I believe they tried Williams rather than Spector (Dodson was already playing for Milano).
I guess one can argue against shifting position on 2 guys, though the Bills have cheerfully done that on OL before. I just don't think they were comfortable with Dodson at MLB to start Klein at MLB ahead of him vs. KC, and certainly not comfortable with any of the rest of their depth - Matakevich, Spector, Williams.
So I think it's a valid point that they acknowledge their LB depth needed overhaul, even though, overall, I agree with you that if they could have kept Dodson they would have.
I think when they got down to their best two options being Dodson and Klein you HAD to put Klein at Mike. He couldn't have played will. His horizontal movement was never his strength even when he was a full time NFL player. The alternative, much discussed in that KC buildup week, was Dodson at Mike and Williams at Will which they did try a bit second half. And I think the fact was they just didn't trust Williams. When he came in against Pittsburgh he kept lining up incorrectly. I think that you are probably right though that Morrow is their preferred MLB reserve for 2024.
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Just now, HaldimandBills said:
So what part do you disagree with?
I take a different view on the value of the picks the Bills made in the mid rounds. I am not super high on Carter as a player, I do like Davis a fair bit but I'm not sure I agree with you on the importance of a rotational DT and a short yardage back as difference making moves for this team in 2024. Equally I do think our WR room is bottom 3. In terms of PROVEN production at the NFL level we have Samuel and his circa 550 yards per season average over his 6 healthy seasons, Mack Hollins a career backup and half a season of Khalil Shakir. that is not a lot of proven production. Then we have some question marks. I think it is pretty thin.
Where I agree with you is on the value of offensive tackle.
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5 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said:
Whose trying to convince who of what? Offensive Tackle is every bit as important as receiver and to say its not close is not close to correct. Now if you want to have a conversation how overrated poorly run teams like the Dolphins have thrown crazy money at receiver while smart run teams like the Packers, Chiefs, Ravens keep investing in their oline and defense over receiver thats a different conversation. There is a reason OT were flying off the board 1st round. No one is saying receiver isn't important. It clearly is in the next position group of importance after QB with Dend and OT.
What would you like the Bills to do? Throw a 3rd or 4th round pick at receiver? Maybe it's just me but I'd like to see our QB having to do less QB sneaks because we have no RB who was useful in the short run game. I'd like our rotational DT to actually sustain pressure in the playoffs rather than be stonewalled.
Our receiver group is not bottom 3. You keep saying this but it isnt true. Bills were predicted to win the Superbowl in 2022 with Isiah Mckenzie as our slot and Gabe Davis as our # 2. This Bills receiver group is better simply by the fact Kincaid is also part of the group by every metric outside of his position title. Kincaid and Knox will be on the field together a lot and Kincaid won't be lined up as a Tight End. I agree the Bills need to add someone post June 1st. I disagree with Bills fans pretending the sky is falling because they didnt draft a 2nd receiver in the mid rounds. To be upset for a budget linebacker signing now when you know the Bills have 10 million coming their way soon for receiver seems kind of silly.
I don't agree with all of this but I do have sympathy with the first para. Personally I'm still of the view at top tier LT is as valuable as any receiver. What I do think is there are fewer top tier LTs than there are elite level WR talents and that is just a product of the college game and the way it is being played, but I'm of the view that a bad blindside tackle is one of the easiest ways to lose a football game. I'd add the rebuild of the Lions to your list of tackle savvy teams. They have the best tackle duo in football and I personally think Decker and Sewell are more important to that offense than St Brown.
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1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:
i know Jones from Madden 21 or 22? maybe , ultimate team, he had one of the highest rated cards for LBs.
If not familiar, it's basically Madden where you create your own team and gain points through challenges and live games and can accumulate cards and make your own roster.
Not that it means much but ya, Jones was one of the best lbs
His first five seasons in the NFL 2016-2021 he was one of the best LBs in football. Zero doubt. It was much commented on at the time in the Tremaine Edmunds debates but at the time there was definitely an inbalance in LB talent that skewed towards the NFC. He had some injuries never quite seemed to recover some of his speed and his zest after that. I am surprised he isn't older to be honest. But this is his 4th team in 4 years for a reason. He isn't quite the guy he used to be.
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10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
You're likely correct that other things being equal, the Bills would have preferred to bring Dodson and Jackson back, because the Bills do love to hang on to their backups and STers and McDermott values continuity and leadership.
But Beane and McDermott have also promoted the idea that their backup LB can step in and start - 'next man up'. And clearly, the Bills didn't have faith in Dodson as an MLB, or they wouldn't have persuaded Klein to park his RV and hop on a plane. When you have 4 backup LBs, two of them seasoned vets, and the answer to injury is "platoon the role" or "bring in a guy off the couch", I think it can be argued you need change at the backup LB position. And I think McDermott and Beane must realize that.
I would argue that showed a different path at vet backup was needed. And at least on paper, Morrow looks like an upgrade - a guy who has had the green dot on his helmet in games, a low-end starter, but willing to play ST - potentially closer to what AJ Klein was in 2020/2021 when he was ahead of Dodson on the depth chart.
Dodson wasn't getting vet min from the Bills, BTW - $2.1M, fully guaranteed. Matakevich was getting $2.5M, also fully guaranteed. Dane Jackson, also $2.1M IT's not like any one of these salaries is exorbitant, but one argument about the Bills cap management is that they've been spreading a lot of their cap out to backups and ST guys. That's served the Bills well in a lot of ways, but then Beane tells us he's not able to add top FA at edge and WR. It may be something Beane needs to do differently to get over the top is be willing to "churn" a bit more and have less seasoned players or vets like MorrowThey didn't call Klein because they didn't have faith in Dodson. Dodson had been starting at WILL for like 10 weeks while Klein was on the couch. They signed Klein back after Dodson himself got hurt and they were down to Bernard (who then also proceeded to get hurt), Williams (rookie who had struggled) and Spector (never played at linebacker in meaningful NFL games before). They were totally comfortable with Dodson. It was Williams as next man up after the next man up who they were not comfortable with and the injury to Dodson is what brought Klein back. I am 100% confident if the Bills could have got Dodson back for what Morrow signed for (which was where I got the $1.5m-$2m range - what Morrow is making this year vs what Dodson did last) then Dodson would still be here. There is zero doubt in my mind on that.
I agree with the final point, that the Bills have at times had a lot of well paid depth. It gave them one of the deepest rosters in football but it definitely limited their ability at times to pursue bigger ticket items in FA.... although can be argued the one time they did it hasn't exactly worked out. In a year where they have decided to take some pain on the cap they are knowingly trying to reduce that amount. It's a strategy I support.
I suspect though we haven't seen the last of Dodson. If it doesn't work out in Seattle wouldn't be shocked to see him back in Buffalo in the next 2-3 seasons.
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51 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
Unfortunately that is Brandon Beane's fault unless he makes a move after June 1. I'm not going to hold it against Coleman. I don't expect him to be a #1 outside WR on day one. If he is forced into that role we will have to hope he develops quickly. If he has an Eric Moulds or Davante Adams career path no one will be unhappy with that outcome but we won't see the fruits until year three in that scenario.
Personally I think that is quite likely. Agree that isn't Coleman's fault. It is just my view as to where he is and what the performance arc looks like.
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1 minute ago, DCOrange said:
This is really the crux of it. Without developing further, he is probably best suited to be a big slot in the NFL but at his age and relative inexperience, that's not really the point of drafting him. You're drafting him for the contested catch ability, YAC skills, and run blocking right now and hoping the rest develops as he comes into his body/simply works on football more.
I agree. That is the crux of it. The problem as I see it for the Bills is that they have a big hole at outside receiver and there is a lot of pressure on this kid to fill it day 1.
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22 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:
The NFL is too big I don't see there ever being a true demise but I feel like the NFL will start to go the way of the current NBA. Ratings and revenue will still be great but the purist fans of football will lose interest and the NFL will generally be talked about how much better the product was 10-15 years ago. There's a lot of people on the board that deny this but I already see it in a lot of places how people talk about the NFL this way. It's sad but money talks and that's all that really matters for the Owners of the league.
Maybe for your age group and your demographic but the next generation will just enjoy it for what it is. That's been the way since the beginning of sports. With each set of generational changes you get the generation that grew up with the old game who say "it was better in my day." I turn 40 in a couple of weeks *sobs* and me and my mates get nostalgic over Premier League soccer from the 90s when the game was played at 100mph and was a bit more blood and thunder. I made my 19 year old second cousin sit and watch a re-run of an old game with me over Xmas and he was like "this is utter crap it's so basic, just like a fight on a soccer field." His generation much prefer the smoother, more methodical, less physical style of today. I don't speak to any teenage Americans (I'm guessing there are not many of those here) but I suspect you'd get a similar feeling re. the NFL.
9 minutes ago, Chaos said:Is there any reason the league can’t schedule the London games a few weeks later?
You will have to ask the league why they always tend to go for early in the season. There are some ground availability issues as you get later in the year (they normally try and coincide at least one of the weeks with the Premier League break for international fixtures) but I don't think there is anything insurmountable. I wonder whether they think weather is a factor too that might affect attendances for the neutral fans who are not hardcore of either team.
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1 minute ago, Chaos said:
That is possible. It might be teams playing the second week get a bye week the week before so they have the flexibility to go over earlier to acclimate.
That is possible but would mean that team is still at a disadvantage by having the earliest possible bye - week 4. Because last year the Jags games were home (Wembley) week 4 and road (toilet bowl) week 5. So in order for the home team to get the chance to go over a week before they'd have to have the week 4 bye.
But the NFL is going to persist with this idea over the next few years and as you say see if teams can adjust / find a way to deal with it. They will only accept defeat once they have tried every possible way to make it work.
2 minutes ago, H2o said:It's definitely an unfair advantage for the Jags, the 2nd week at least. They get a whole week to adapt where the other team comes in on a whim and has to play a game. Hopefully, it's not us going over there this year and getting screwed out of a home game like someone else mentioned.
Won't be the Bills.
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51 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:
This is very similar to the Zeke thing, clearly just a name people know and assume he is what we was in college. Meanwhile clearly not the best RB in his own locker room. Not surprised.
Not sure that's fair. Zeke was very good his first four years. His last three years in Dallas he was trading on his reputation more than his performance but his first 4 seasons he had almost 5,500 yards at over 4.6 a clip with 40 touchdowns. I didn't like Dallas drafting him as high as they did because he is a running back but he was legit those first 4 years.
In fact Zeke is the poster boy for why you don't take a running back top 10 and why you should be wary of taking them first round at all. He was elite his first four years on his rookie deal, so Dallas paid him. Then very quickly you see the tread wear down and his production can't match up to the contract. Draft them later, use that tread for 4 years of a rookie deal, let them walk and rinse and repeat.
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34 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:
Making matters worse for the Jets, they don't have the "cheap" out with a 5th year option on Hall. He was drafted round 2. Plus it's the Jets. Despite drafting 2 RBs this year...it's still possible they sign Hall to a new deal anyway. It's the Jets...lol.
Ah that's true. Forgot Hall was a 2nd. Thought he was a first. They had three firsts that year but they were Sauce, Wilson and Jermaine Johnson weren't they? Hall early 2nd.
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1 hour ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:
He’s the weakest big back I can recall seeing. You’d think a dude his size might move a pile or two …
Agree with that. He isn't enough of a bruiser for a guy his size and he doesn't have the speed to be a breakaway threat. To be under 4 yards per carry after 3 years (admittedly not great lines in front of him and not facing many light boxes) is a big disappointment for a use of a 1st round pick. I wouldn't swap James Cook for him tbh.
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9 hours ago, Beck Water said:
Basically, McDermott and Beane were forced to acknowledge that 31 yr old Matekevich was 100% there for ST at this point, that they couldn't count on Dodson or Spector to back up Bernard at MLB, and maybe Dorian Williams will develop but he's not there yet. So Dodson and Matekevich are gone.
On this they'd have loved to bring Dodson back IMO. Had Milano never got hurt, had Dodson never had the chance to play and showcase his ability I am all but certain he'd be here again on a 1 year vet minimum type deal. But once he got in and played as he did (and I think the Bills always had a ton of faith in him hence he made the team as an UDFA and they stuck with him every year thereafter) he was always going to get paid low end starter money and the Bills couldn't afford that for a guy who was essentially going to be a backup for them. I think he and Dane Jackson both fitted into that category. Guys the Bills would have loved to have back on backup salaries ($1.5-2m) but couldn't afford to have back on low end starter salaries (they both got $4.25m) given their cap situation.
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4 hours ago, Beck Water said:
I tend to agree. The wild card is how well McDermott thinks Dorian Williams will come along this season - could he play for Milano if need be? If that's the belief, then yeah, OK, they could still be concerned about Milano and yet only sign some depth.
I think Morrow and Jones could make it to the 53. Milano, Williams, Bernard, Morrow, Ulofoshio, Jones. We normally carry 6.
I do think Jones isn't a lock and is going to be battling it out with Spector.
I can't understand the thinking that Spector will be cut. He is close to a lock to me. He has played 60% of ST snaps his two years here and they have already lost a number of their core ST guys. Add to that he was actually serviceable when he had to play some linebacker late in the year. They have signed Morrow and drafted Ulofoshio who both in theory offer some STs ability but Spector has actually been there and done it for them and on a unit where they are already facing considerable turnover I just don't see them voluntarily giving that up.
My personal view is that the 4 incumbents are on the team: Bernard, Milano, Spector, Williams. Then I think the rest are fighting over two spots. I'd be surprised if Jones makes it personally. I was his biggest fan. I had a first round grade on him coming out back in 2016 when the consensus was lower than that. But after being awesome his first five years in the league he has been pretty bad the past three years.
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Don't draft first round running backs unless they are really exceptional. Najee and Travis that year were good prospects. Neither was exceptional.
Wait for the Jets to be here in two years with Breece.
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10 hours ago, Mikie2times said:
Used to be a solid cover LB.
Was an elite player for a few years. But once the speed went he declined quickly.
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Deion Jones signed to 1-year deal per Schefter
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
When I read this I thought "whoa that's a bit bold for what would have been a rookie 5th rounder." And then I thought about it and I think you are right. Which kinda tells its own story. It isn't about Malik. It is about the fact that this WR corps by any measure is missing a fair few elements that you'd like to have.