FireChan

Marrone's offense with a decent QB could be okay. Lord knows Suh would have a great season. I don't like this either.

Still see some of the same names over and over eating crow. I think we need another self-reflection topic.

Dude what. Dysfunction is real. The only way this makes sense IMO is if they decided to fire Farmer, and wait on Pettine to see what their new GM thought. Now, he's said he wants Pettine gone and to start fresh, and so here we are.

With the transition into the RR era, many of Whaley's picks have moved from good to decent and some have even fallen to terrible. PB52, while effective in the 2014 scheme, has been rendered to a liability now. Depending on your view of the RR hiring, that makes the decision to draft him, at best, a wash, and at worst, a waste/bust. I don't know about you, but I don't consider a 1 year as a solid starter as a good ROI. Duke may fall under this umbrella as well. That's why I titled the thread what I did. Because the RR era is taking Whaley's good moves down at an alarming rate. So my compromised list WRT your points would be as follows 3 great/good players (costing 5 picks total) - Darby, Sammy, McCoy 1 player whose job is safe for next season, but isn't necessarily great or complete yet - Karlos 3 guys who we will be looking to upgrade, but have roles in weak positions - Woods. Miller, Brown And the rest are unknowns, busts or fringe roster ST guys. And that's kind of a problem. Because last offseason, we probably had more more or the same amount of quality Whaley picks before we knew what we had in Darby and Karlos. Two good picks a draft later and we appear to be treading water. So when you tell me the average GM drafts 2/3 solid starters a year, I don't see us hitting that. I see us with 3 great to solid starters, and a bunch of folks who are mediocre at best and probably on their way out. Just because our LB group is garbage doesn't mean Preston Brown is a good draft pick. He's just slightly better than garbage. I do want to thank you for actually stepping up and challenging me with a thoughtful post. There's been too much of the normal shout-downs and sniping from the peanut gallery who have nothing ever to offer besides snark. Posts like yours are too few around here. I always knew you were sweet on me. I gotchu. I don't understand the bolded. But thanks. I suppose I'm channeling my disappointment at the Bills season into this. We aren't sure that happened. We do know they gave Whaley control of the interview from the football standpoint. Terry even said he almost fell asleep. If your argument is that Terry and Kim loved Rex and hired him while making the GM feel like he had to toe the company line and lie about how he felt about the hire from a football standpoint, well I don't know if that's any better (in fact it sounds much, much worse), although it does absolve Whaley. Is that your contention? As to your other points, GM's are judged on the results of their picks. No one cares that nobody in the Pats front office knew how great Brady was gonna be. The result was excellent, everyone gets praised. The opposite also holds true.

Except Tanny?

Great point! Those offenses had very similar personnel, including QB!

The Pegulas didn't tell Whaley to say that him and Rex were finishing each other's sentences, or that they had the exact same ideas for building a team. They also didn't tell Whaley to put Rex on his list of HC's he wanted to interview.

Because Han is a bad-ass? Episode 1 is also patently moronic. I saw a hilarious tear down of the entire prequel trilogy and it was spot on. It was basically a broken movie. The whole temptation angle was dumb too. Anakin wasn't even the one tempted, he was the one begging Padme to love him. It makes no friggin' sense. In fact, one of the biggest problems with RotJ is Luke had no temptation either. The Emperor says he'll be more powerful. That's it.

No argument there.

Nothing but we were forced because we just had to cut FItz and had to sign Kevin Kolb who no one could see ever getting hurt.

One I know for sure is K-9. He has stressed emphatically that Whaley was in the Kirk Chair. Links are here. There was another but I'm not sure I remember the name. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/162987-is-it-too-early-to-give-buddy-credit-for-last-draft-class/?p=2953954 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/162987-is-it-too-early-to-give-buddy-credit-for-last-draft-class/?p=2954248 The highlights. Doug Whaley was in the Kirk chair from what I've heard. Technically, Whaley was promoted in May. Functionally, he had been taking over more and more of the GM duties upon the completion of the '11 season. It was a show of respect to Buddy Nix to allow him to retain the title until after the draft. And it was the classy thing to do. Also, from a continuity standpoint owed to the year long process of preparing for a draft, it made sense as well. He's a poster I really respect, so for the purposes of this argument, I'm taking his word for it. And as a side note, look how hard everyone in that topic was trying to give Whaley credit for the 2013 draft. A real interesting look at how the narrative changes when the wind blows the other way. As to the Seantrel point, as long as the NFL continues to be a results-driven business, it doesn't much matter. Our 7th round pick may never play on this team again. That's not good. 1.3 players per draft is the norm in the NFL for good GM's? And with Whaley giving the Rex hire his vote of confidence, he shares in the blame of that as well.

That's true. It's an effort in futility I suppose, but if they go out of pocket and don't want to tell their parents, I wouldn't go over their heads.

I just showed you the players he drafted. You consider that a success?

One of the major reasons the prequels sucked was because Lucas clearly tried to make a character story but also have some sort of larger story/mystery going on. Meanwhile, the audience knows who the mystery villain is going in, so we basically feel like all the characters are morons for 3 movies. And Anakin is written as a total ass from basically Episode 2 on, making his fall and whole character arc basically useless. I mean, was he even a good guy when he was adult? He was murdering woman and children, and we were supposed to be rooting for him as a good guy? Absolutely ridiculous.

Several posters with inside info have assured that Whaley had final say in the 2013 draft. That's why he gets blamed for EJ. I'm sure you want him to have an "out" for EJ but he gets full credit for Woods and Kiko/McCoy right? Also, he clearly doubled down on EJ with the Watkins trade. He even indicated as much. But when EJ imploded, we should just shrug our shoulders? No.

What agenda are you referring to, pray tell? I don't know if you're being serious or not. I would say having late round picks like 5-7th rounders start is good, mainly because they are probably decent depth. But Seantrel looks like his career may be over, so that pick is a loss.

Much more torn, especially because I'm half a hypocrite.

If he pans out as an All-Pro, we can let him walk after 4 years instead of overpaying. I'll take whatever you're getting.

Miller sorta stinks. It's easy to be considered a good GM when you never expect any late round picks to pan out, bad starters are considered good, bad years get thrown out even though you were the one selecting all the players, and your busts are hand-waved as picks you were "forced" to make. Just like Rex is a great defensive mind, he was just forced to run a bad system!

I realize the draft is a crapshoot, but 1.3 players per draft isn't good. Other teams can and have done much better. Also, I hold EJ against Whaley because he "had to take a shot" because of his own doing. If we cut all of our LB's and draft an LB bust, I will hold that against him as well.

As we continue on the RR path of total dismantling, the "good" picks of DW are dropping like flies. From the 2013 draft, it looks like we'll have 1 starter directly from it. McCoy, who is a solid starter. However, considering his massive contract, he isn't as good as a productive draft pick. Notable shout out to Nickell Robey, who after a promising rookie campaign has been weak as well. From the 2014 draft, it looks like again we'll have 1 solid starter from it as well. He cost us a bunch of other picks, so again, not fantastic, but he does appear to have been worth it. PB is now weak. Seantrel's career is in jeopardy. Cyril is invisible. Ross is productive on another roster. And the 2015 draft. Darby was a great pick. Karlos has had great value, but his concussions are a long-term concern. And everyone else is too soon to say. So over 3 drafts, we have 4 good players. All other promising prospects have either busted or are still unproductive and unsafe. And this is the guy whose job is safe? Even his "heist" of Hughes is lessened by us signing him to a lucrative long-term deal and his production being hampered. Did we really pay him all that money for ~5 sacks and 2 pass breakups? Not a net negative looking at the whole body of work, but it's no longer a slam dunk. Sorta sad how things change.

I'm sorry but parents being notified that their 17 y/o daughter had an abortion would be pretty weak. At that point, nothing can be done. Releasing medical records just for a parental shitstorm doesn't seem right.

Claiming they've been great in pass pro because they were great in run blocking is hilarious.

I don't think there's anything I care less about than Sammy "getting his 1000."

Sounds like you answered your own question.