FireChan

Is that a no?

Can you name one player who has been run out of town with social media?

This team, man.

I fundamentally disagree. Only the career of the players matters. If a player has a horrific injury, gets waived due to circumstance or can't be re-signed due to salary cap concerns, that should not affect how they are seen as draft picks. Perfect example last year that I still give Whaley credit for. Ross Cockrell. Got cut last year because he had a bad camp and got outplayed with a lot of CB depth. Went to Pittsburgh where there was a great opportunity due to a thin CB unit, and was a very solid contributor. As a 4th round pick, that's pretty good. That doesn't make Cockrell a bust, just the opposite. He was a good pick that circumstance forced out of Buffalo.

I think a question like this is flawed. Even if there weren't superior OT's taken after Kujo, taking Kujo that high would still make him a bust. Especially because players at other positions did contribute a lot more than a swing tackle in year 3. But to answer your question, I would take Jack Mewhort OT, pick #59 and Morgan Moses OT, pick #66 over Kujo today. Both have made a bigger impact. Both have struggled early and had setbacks in their first season, but have taken strides and shown more than Kujo. On another note, some of the players taken after Kujo in the second are... Davante Adams, WR, Jeremy Hill, RB, Kony Ealy, DE (of SB fame), Allen Robinson, WR, Jimmy Garropalo, QB and Jarvis Landry, WR. When looking at the contributions of those guys, excluding Garopolo for obvious reasons, hasn't every single one of them proven to contribute more than Kujo? Swing tackle is not that importnat, sure. But someone must play that position and you probably can't improve on Kujo for $400k. So I wouldn't cut him, unless he got beaten out. Do I think my definition is too limiting? No, quite the opposite. I think it's quite flexible in that it gives players a chance to redeem themselves as long as they play in the NFL. Not only that, but it does not discriminate. You are almost grasping my stance. I'm not only saying that a bust can change his stars, but that you can both be a bust and a solid contributor at the same time. Let me demonstrate with some examples. CJ Spiller, some would argue, was a decent contributor. Wasn't a great RB, but had some moments and made some plays. Is that what he was drafted to be? Not in the top 10 he wasn't. Bust. But, if in the next 5 years, he cranks out 1300 yard seasons and 8-10 TD's for the Saints, would I still call him a bust? No. He would clearly have been a late bloomer who looked like a bust early then put it all together. But I don't change my evaluations of players until they force me to. Another example, EJ and Cardale. Let's say Cardale follows EJ's same career path. Forced to start early, has some moments, majority of the body of work is underwhelming, relegated to a backup until further notice with his chance of ever starting again on life support. With EJ, drafted in the first round, this is clearly a bust. He wasn't drafted to be at best a backup. With Cardale, drafted in the fourth round, this is muddy. Can you expect your 4th round pick to be much more than a backup? Sometimes you can, sometimes that's the best you can get. I wouldn't, however, definitively call him a bust. I'm rather enjoying this engagement right now. You asked me to clarify my stance, and I feel that I have both cordially and sufficiently. I don't make blanket statements to invoke reactions, but I do not like writing pages of words that no one cares to read. If someone takes my viewpoint wrong, I am happy to further explain, if they care to listen.

That appears to be the point of contention with BB right now. I agree that if Kujo isn't the worst back up ever, its great new from where he was the last two years. But that doesn't mean he was a good second round pick. And for those that remember the stories out of OBD around draft time in 2014, Whaley had the option of trading our 2015 1st or our 2014 2nd to move up to get Sammy. Ergo, he thought his 2nd rounder in 2014 was worth more than a 1st in 2015. Kujo, worth more than 1st round pick? Clear failure of expectations..

From your link, he's a bust.... Now, with early round picks, the expectation is a lot higher than just contributing on the field. With a first or second round pick, an NFL team is expecting a player that can come in, start, and contribute for years to come. With that in mind, our second method for setting the bar for a “bust” is that the player starts for less than one year or plays less than 40 games in their career.

All second rounds are not created equal. The 2014 Draft was regarded as one of the deepest drafts in years. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pick #44 to contribute in their first two years. Importance is relative. Less important than backups at any skill position, surely. And when Kujo is playing swing tackle (because he can't beat out Jordan Mills, a fifth round pick in one of the worst drafts in NFL history) I find it very difficult to say, "yeah he's irreplaceable in a very important position."

The decision is made every day that he does not meet expectations. He still has not. If he plays at a decent starter level this year, things may change. Until then, he's a bust. No. I wouldn't cut him.

When a drafted player does not meet expectations. I literally just defined it. And gave examples.

It means the definition of a bust. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_(sports) When a drafted player does not meet their expectations. No one, including Doug Whaley, was hoping that Kujo would have a good moment or two in his 3rd year of preseason. No one, including Doug Whaley, expected Kujo to not meaningfully contribute at all in his first two years. He didn't live up to his draft status. He's a bust. It's that simple. Not all busts are created equal. Think of Hitner/Spiller vs. Leaf/Manziel. All busts. Different degrees.

Are you actively trying to put words in my mouth?

I think he still costs too much money to be cut.

Yes. For a high pick in the second round, a guy whose first decent preseason came in his 3rd season, and who hasn't been able to contribute in the regular season is a bust.

Drafting high potential players with inherent risky qualities is what brought us here. We are witnessing the other side of the coin.

Not after today.

Nailed it!

Entering rehab per Bills. https://twitter.com/buffalobills/status/767073782116847617

Karlos doesn't seem to be caught off guard. Maybe this is a more mutual split than we're used to seeing.

If you change your handle to Swatkins, I'll kill you.

Per Chris Brown. https://twitter.com/chrisbrownbills/status/767058690860089344

They're an original 6 team that went to the Stanley Cup Final in the last 3 years and has been a recent playoff contender. They also play in MSG. How can you even try to equate the Sabres with the Rangers? How is he worse off if he sucks in NY over Buffalo? If he sucks, it doesn't really matter, does it?

The Constitution states what the government is allowed to do, not private employees. C'mon.

EJ didn't look nearly as good.

Stardom, prestige, history of winning. Not really surprised, tbh.