Juror#8

This ignore list ... I like what you’ve done with the place. Groovy place to be. Lot of open-minded, non-judgmental, non-stereo-typing, people in here. Huh. Interesting. Ok ... well ... we’re gonna have some drinks and wait for you to wake up. Dude over here leaning up against the antique armoire said they’ve been waiting in this room for you to wake up for like 60 years. 60 years, son. Damn. Night night.

Spoiler alert: I kinda knew you wouldn’t read it. It’s just kinda your m.o. But we’ll let you think that you “didn’t” read it for any reason other than why you really “didn’t” read it. It’ll be our secret. And I already said that about the Waterloo thing silly pants. Trying to teach you is my waterloo. See, I did it for you. Oh you just just wanted to say it so it would be your idea. Ok. Quote me saying it again so you can own the last response. Here ya go: The Senator is my Waterloo. There ya go, chief. You can enjoy the superficiality of that.

This is one of the best interactions that I’ve had all week. My wife doesn’t let me spend too much time doing this anymore. Happy wife, happy life ... nah’mean. Probably not. But more on that later. In about 38 sentences. And thank you for telling me about yourself. That’s a great ice-breaker. Truly. I went into the conversation thinking one thing about you and have since been convinced that my initial suspicions about you were correct. Whether that’s any kind of indictment against you is largely insignificant because I like ***** jungle music. Also, I don’t want to seem intelligent. Actually far from it. I just enjoy the idea that for a moment in time someone reads something I write and second-guesses themselves about who is on the other line. It’s like Leonard in “Memento.” Except his issue is one of forgetting and yours, I imagine, is an issue of epistemic dysfunction. Maybe a basic cylinder misfire. Who knows, friend ... Just so you know I’m not sure what epistemological really means. It has a lot of syllables and I think it has to do with the acidic quality of elephant turds. But I used it here because that’s what people who listen to ***** jungle music do. Incidentally I’m writing now so that you can exercise and open your 60 year old eyes. Not because of the myopia that you fixed with your fancy shmanzy procedure but because of the myopia that, for you, is probably unfixable. But I like teaching. Thats probably a fool’s errand of course. And it reinforces your point that I’m an uneducated dolt. Which admittedly I am. More on that yesterday. Probably best that you not waste your time in this thread replying to my rap-toting nonsense. That’s time that would be more valuably spent studying the intricacies of real music with some scholarly type, with a cool Scandinavian name, and who has won countless Pulitzer Prizes and MTV music awards. You’re wasting valuable mental capital and intellectual bandwidth discussing music with a low rent, uneducated, unaccomplished dolt who spent 6 years trying to graduate 11th grade (I just said ***** it and started rapping by the way because that’s what the irretrievably lost and profoundly uneducated do. They rap). As your last post very clearly indicated, you’re the adult in the room - I’m just a guy with no job and access to the Internet. You might know jazz because someone told you to know it and like it. Maybe you studied classical because it seems sophisticated. Or maybe you did so you can talk about it on football message boards. You probably hate rap because it wasn’t a chapter in a book you studying under the tutelage of Pulitzer Prize winners. You certainly have never ever listened to Drake or any other rap song for that matter. Or maybe its because you don't understand hip hop - the background, the culture, the immense popularity, the wordplay, the draw, the fact that all these people who look kinda like you listen to it. “A child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind ...” Ugh. Get Flash out your head.“Glorious conformity” is what the Scandinavian guy said during your real music lessons. And you listened. Of course. I only hope that those “here is what real music sounds like” study sessions were just music study sessions nah’mean. Hope no biology lessons slipped in there because it surely seems like hating rap and extolling the characteristics of “real music” dogmatically is your raison d’ etre. Maybe someone planted that soft classical seed a little too deep and meaningfully nah’mean. Silly me, that’s just my wiseassness coming out. The function of years of rap listening and too much jacking off when I can’t find a crackpipe to hold instead. The ramblings of the uneducated and fantastically-minded. I’m going to go back to my g.e.d prep book. I’m 44 and the g.e.d. has thus far been my Waterloo. When you respond and insult me again personally in your next message, being the adult in the room that you’ve shown yourself to me, please also extend some good vibes for my g.e.d test. I miss you already. I faithfully remain, A rapper

Oh it sure does make sense. Good sense too. And it wasn’t a true analogy interestingly enough. It was more my own unique type of stage whisper. A slight of tongue for the assembled audience here at Two Bills Drive. Better yet it’s like when Mingus screams “I know” when the music gripped him and he had some of Mezz Mezzrow’s “mezz” on em’. Some of Mezz’ muggles. You wouldn’t know anything about that, youngster. Not that type of primitive. Not that type of stick and rock. And no, you haven’t listened to Drake. Googling him for the sake of reference doesn’t count. You just hate what you don’t understand. Even though Rod Serling tried to intervene. Despite my racial handicap, even I know that that’s ok for some. Including you, I think, my friend. 1958 was a good year for me too, I believe. Some years before I was born. Silly me, I’m being impolite ... I’m glad you got your eyes fixed, friend. Hopefully it was in Toronto. If only they had those fancy-shmanzy lenses to know good music. Or maybe what I mean is to broaden your scope of what might constitute good music. Or maybe simply to not stereotype or be intransigent. The world would certainly be a little more interesting. And perhaps less dogmatic. In Toronto.

You’re absolutely on.

Fair enough. Ill be traveling to Toronto in august. I may send you a pm for touristy destinations.

Haha. Come on man ... Drake gets away with it. That doesn’t seem fair.

No need to apologize. Don’t take all the blame. There are other variables at play. Anyway, not everyone will like everything. Its just not meant to be. Different strokes for different folks. That’s absolutely ok. But thankfully your type of myopia and intransigence, foreclosing even the option to substantively challenge your own notions and paradigms, is expiring naturally. It’s classic addition by subtraction. Rotary to cellular. Something to think about the next time you’re in Toronto.

Good rap is like some of the best poetry. It’s beautiful to listen to the metaphors and word play and interrelation of concepts and then how they’re tied together rhythmically. I listen to it before court most days. I also was second chair violinist in high school and college and enjoy a glass of whiskey and Partitia No. 3 in E major on repeat to calm myself after a rough day (I love love Hilary Hahn as my contemporary violist of choice btw). Anyway ... I don’t really get the mumble rap stuff that’s happening today but anyway ... Give it a listen sometime and block out some of the gratuitous “*****” and “ni**as” references and listen to the story and the wordplay. Listen to Biggie’s “Ni**as Bleed” or “downfall.” Listen to the story in “Somebody’s gotta die.” It’s like listening to a movie play out. Listen to any of Drake’s recent stuff for some good wordplay or older Lil’ Wayne. “6foot, 7 foot” might be one of the most fun songs to listen to conceptually: ”paper chasin, tell that paper ‘look I’m right behind ya,’ bi**ch real gs move in silence like lasagna.” Once you figure out what a “g” is in hip hop parlance you might be able appreciate the ability to rhyme together words that well and at the same time factor in different layers of syntactic interplay. I don’t expect you to like rap any more after reading this. To you its primitives beating on rocks with sticks or some such thing. But I challenge you to give a few of the songs I mentioned above a listen. Listen newly. Listen for the wordplay and the narrative. It will never sound like Watemusic. But you might be surprised at what you hear with a discerning, non-judgmental, ear.

Interesting pick. Definitely old at rb. But figured there was still rb value later in the draft. Was hoping for wr at 74. And the dude is small and not that fast per metrics. Apparently super durable and good vision though based on the brief scouting I’ve just read so I guess there’s that ...

I’m really enjoying this draft. Beane sits tight and is about to get his guy. No movement. No mortgaging draft picks. And Jaguars are making a pick so no trades that disrupt the process. Fantastic!!

On the radio - how about Rick? Michonne is going to be leaving the show. Maybe that’s the impetus for her leaving. Also, google “Andrew Lincoln feels he left the show too soon.” There was a recent article, as described by Reedus, where Lincoln is appearing to say that he wants back on the show. I never thought I’d say this a season ago but I like the show trajectory without Rick and Maggie. The Alexandria-Hilltop dynamic/frustration was getting really dry.

More preventative than anything - blueberries everyday and hot green tea with raw/unprocessed local honey every day.

So ready for the season finale tonight. Well, let me clarify, I’m ready to see the episode but not ready for the season to be done. This is a damn good season relative to the last two. I never thought I’d say that with so many original characters departing. Hopefully we can see more of Negan’s new character arc beginning with this episode. The show has done their job making us feel sorry for him and creating some distance between 10 years ago Negan and Negan-now. I get they had to do that for Negan to be able to acclimate into the community without constantly looking over his shoulder at a lurking Darryl or Carole and also for the audience to accept him as a protagonist. But we’re there now and I’m ready to see how he integrates into the new dynamic of characters.

That math doesn’t even hold up in the small sample size of this thread. Lol. Barry was the better back and the greatest of all time. But it’s a good discussion with valid points on both sides.

Maybe not the “most” underrrated but he should be in the “underrated” discussion: Tiki Barber (don’t laugh, I’m being serious) And to a lesser extent, Shaun Alexander. Alexander is not talked about because he had three phenomenal years, peaked, and then hit a wall like nothing I’ve ever seen before (or since) in the nfl year-over-year.

No worries and appreciate the words. Miscommunications are one of the highlights of passionate message board posting. Always enjoyed your contributions on bbmb. I think there’s always situational circumstances when one player might be the better option based on style, etc. For instance, I’m taking Natrone Means, Christian Okoye, William Perry, or Mike Alstott in that “need 2 yards for the Super Bowl” scenario. I still wouldn't say any of them are even near Barry’s echelon. And therein lay my point. Barry, I think, is the best back when you look at everything you would want a back to do consistently in view of today’s nfl. His skill set is still translatable and I still think he’d be dominant 20 years after he retired. He dominated as a rusher with no supporting cast and in an era when the Nfl was loose on policing performance enhancing drugs. If I’m starting an nfl team today and I have a 20 year old Jim Brown and a 20 year old Barry Sanders in front of me, I’m taking Barry. Some would take Brown, and that’s ok too. Lastly, if it’s 4th and 2 at the goal line with 8 seconds left and for the Super Bowl, I think I’m throwing a back corner fade to Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson.

Fair enough my friend. Appreciate your post.

I know who he is and I know bbmb. I think he did the rockpile review weekly there. I was a member there long ago before I brought my talents to this board because, well, it’s better here. Two responses: 1. He probably would have better served keeping his brand of football analysis that tells other people who don’t agree with him that they don’t “know football” on the piece of ***** board that folded. 2. What does his football knowledge have to do with him telling people who don’t agree with him that they must not “know football”? I find his words presumptious and condescending. Not sure it’s a winning play to defend that. There are tons of people who feel that Sanders is the better back. Many in this thread have mentioned Sanders as their choice. Telling them that they don’t “know football” is bs. Oh, and welcome.

So you think that Michael Jordan and Oscar Robinson or Jerry West are equal because they played in different eras and probably dominated equally in their eras? Based on a variety of reasons, human beings have gotten stronger and faster over the last 50 years, writ large. Maybe there was the exceptional athlete in ‘55 who ran a 4.5 40. But now the preponderance of skill position players run that like it’s nothing. Those dominating better athletes should, logically, dominate the lesser athletes even more. And I think that a comparative discussion tilts in the better athlete’s favor. Do you feel differently? Or do you feel that athletes, in general, aren’t more athletic relative to 50 years ago?

Good analysis. The fumbles per touch is a great stat that I didn’t consider.

Fancy that, a dude with a 2017 join date pontificating to some old-timers [relatively], with whom they’ve never interacted. about what qualifies as “knowing football.” I guess just joining the community and putting up a weekly analysis about football games makes you a subject matter expert. Just to save you some suspense, there is nothing about this thread, this conversation, or anything that you’ve posted on this forum ever, that’s dispositive of your football knowledge relative to anyone else on this forum. You’re delusional if you think that you’re anything more than another guy with an opinion here. If you think that your opinion is more factual than not, back it up with data, not declaratives and back-handed digs designed to devalue the contributions of others. That’s called down-talking anyone who doesn’t agree with you. I believe Barry Sanders is the better running back and I believe that he was the best running back of all time. I base that on skill set, capability, impact to the team relative to others around him when he played, career stats relative to years played, composition of that Lions team, prevailing defensive philosophy and trends in the nfl at the time Sanders played, peers playing in the same league contemporaneously, strength of competition, rules, accolades, etc. You talk about “get me 3 yards” and you wouldn’t be able to count on Sanders. Yet he averaged 5.0 a carry (only a handful of rbs to do that for their career). You’ll invariably say “well he was a home run theeat and that inflated his career averages.” To that I’d wonder why that’s a problem, and I’d retort that he averaged 5.0 yards a carry over a 10 year career - never averaging less that 4.5 in a season. Thats remarkable considtency, even despite the negative run plays. So in truth, yea I would put Sanders in needing 3 yards. Statistically I have a great chance of getting those three. Anyway, I don’t base my assessment of Sanders, specifically on a single highlight vid or on a 30-for-30 episode. Wondering if there was ever a running back better than Barry Sanders is like walking around with some solution in search of an attributive problem. And Sanders did everything he did with arguably the worst supporting cast in history throughout his career. 1. Sanders 2. Payton 3. Brown 4. Sayers 5. Peterson ... (somewhere unranked but easily top-20 - Dickerson, Faulk, Gilchrist, Smith, Jackson, Thomas, Simpson, Tomlinson, Campbell)

You can watch YouTube videos all day of these cats. Though I didn’t see Jim Brown or Sayers play when they played, their plays are there for posterity to enjoy. And enjoy they will. Five hundred years hence, in space communities within galaxies we might not now know exist, people will talk about how amazing, captivating, enjoyable, and splendid Sayers, Brown, Payton, and Simpson were to watch and at their crafts(s). And then they’ll say “yet they just weren’t as good as Barry Sanders.”

Bo was more elusive and in my opinion had better lateral quickness than Jim Brown. Bo just has too small a sample size - unless you factor in his Hb1 runs in Techmo Bowl.

I’m convinced that anyone who doesn’t answer “Barry Sanders” never watched the man play. Sanders was a transcendent talent. While Jim Brown ran over people and relied on his physicality, Sanders was vision, improvisation, speed, elusiveness, and anticipation. Its like a Mingus jazz composition, all these parts coming together to make something amazingly balanced. Sayers had a handful of those same qualities - maybe even one or two of them equally as good - just not all the qualities as good at the same time. Another thing I love about Barry Sanders, he’s probably the only person on any list who would rank himself last amongst any names in a discussion about whose the best. Great story in an old article that I read years ago about him going to the same McDonalds after a home game and getting his meal. Sitting in the McDs enjoying his meal and signing a few autographs. And neighbors would tell stories about how he was so regular down to mowing his own lawn. Thats good rearing. It sounds silly to mention that as commendable but in today’s world of pampered athletes, that’s almost unheard of.