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Ask and Marrone shall deliver Seriously though how can you ask that question coming off of Sundays win? It really is too bad that someone, that cares about the Bills as much as you obviously do, can't enjoy the best season of Bills football in a decade. This has been fun! For 8 Sundays so far the evening has been a little better, it has been a little easier to get up and go into work on Monday, that is the most in a long time and something I will celebrate.

Sanchez has regressed greatly and they have lost 2 in a row. That said Kelly is the only coach who has his team in the top 6 offensively without an elite level qb. Sure it can be done but it is definitely the exception and not the rule. As for Gailey getting it done, Gailey in 3 years averaged 20.83 points a game. Marrone in 2 years has averaged 21.4 points a game. I also still contend that this is the second best year of Orton's career so maybe the coaching is getting the best out of their players. Their best just isn't good enough. 3 of 5 coaches are returning. The only new additions to the staff (from the website so don't quote me) are Pepper and Pagac.

Well he did just defeat the team that was declared by many as the best in the NFL. Certainly one of if not the NFC favorite so yes of course I could. You did this last week asking for a signature win. This was his signature win. Last year with a 6-10 team the Bills beat the defending SB champs.

Wow. Fair enough. I would prefer to see a talent upgrade first as I wonder if it would allow/lead to more creativity. I just feel that the offensive coaching staff is a bit hamstrung by the (lack of) talent on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe receivers but they were very young and wr is traditionally a position that takes 3 years to really break out and our top 2 are a rookie and second year guy. RB I disagree. The best part about it was depth but a 33 year old Freddie and CJ are not as good to me as a backfield that sports a top back regardless of who is behind them so Dallas, Chicago, KC, Philly, etc all rank ahead of Buffalo for me simply because of what 1 guy can do. I don't think the offense is barren of talent I just see it as middle of the road talent and therefore am not surprised by middle of the road production. The defense has top talent and therefore I am not surprised it has top level production.

Damn now you made me give them some traffic! I use to frequent that site but the guy simply hates everything the Bills do. So much so that it almost seems forced. I swore him off and now you got me giving him clicks!

Agreed. The wind was out of the sails of the team after the Toronto loss to the Falcons. One of the only times I can remember since he took over that the team looked out of sorts. ? I hadn't heard that before. More details please!

Well put here. THe talent on the offense is being vastly over rated. You can't be seriously comparing the 2008 Patriots with the 2014 Buffalo Bills. The year before Cassel led the team to 11-5 Brady led the same exact team to 16-0. Plenty of excuse making was done at the time and still to this day (you even did it by saying Cassell was in for Brady). The 2008 Pats* had won the super bowl 3 times in the last 7 years! If you are what your record says you are then this is the best Bills team in 10 years. You were told all off season how the talent improved and look they are 2 games better with 2 games to go. Your post makes no sense. Yes yes yes. So why does anyone want to replace the captain of the ship?!?! Many have it is why I want to pull my hair out. The second bolded is why I like Marrone so much. I bet he feels the same exact way. So there is no way for Hackett to save his job in your opinion? I used to think it was Hackett too but as I have been watching I see plays that are there to be made. That speaks to a quality coordinator. I see turnovers in the redzone taking points off the board (2 in the minnesota game, the brown fumble in the chiefs game come to mind). I see missed opportunities. If there were no opportunities I would be on board with replacing him.

There are better alternatives. Belichick comes to mind but I don't think he's answering the phone. As for realistic possibilities I don't see anyone I want to see so bad it is worth firing Marrone for. Harbaugh ain't coming (his o is actually ranked worse than the Bills), college coaches are a crapshoot, Gase is a product of Manning, Bevell is having a down year and the passing numbers are terrible, are there others I am missing (I'm sure there are)? Marrone hasn't been perfect, Marrone has made calls that have fans scratching their heads. Every single NFL coach has a lot of the same issues. Whether it is punting when down late in the 4th, not going for it on 4th and short, not playing the guy fans want. None of these are just Bills/Marrone issues. We nitpick every last tiny little detail. What some are missing out on by doing so is the most fun Bills season in a long time.

Playoffs is a dumb argument. The results should be on the record as what record qualifies you changes every single year. If the Bills finish 9-7 and miss the playoffs that doesn't make it a worse 9-7. 9-7 would have made the playoffs in the AFC in 4 of the last 8 years. So about 50% of the time the record this team will most likely finish at was good enough. If they climb to 10-6 you have to go back to 2008 for when that wouldn't qualify. Record is what matters as playoff fate is many times out of a teams hands. The AFC North is likely what will keep us out of the playoffs because they got to play the 2 worst divisions in football. The Bills played 2 divisions where 5 of the 8 teams are above .500. The AFC North played 2 divisions that have 2 out of the 8 over .500. That is 3 bad teams that the Bills missed out on playing simply due to schedule. If the Bills got to play the Titans, Jags, and Colts instead of the Broncos, Chiefs, and Chargers (removed opponents they would have played due to division finish) you don't think this team would have a better record? That's 14 wins between 3 teams as opposed to the 27 wins between the 3 teams the Bills faced.

Aren't at least 3 of these 4 on Whaley? 1) I didn't care much for the move to Orton either but 2 things have at least tempered my disagreement. It appeared the WR group was very frustrated with EJ. Whether that is just me making assumptions or not I don't know but it seems they were all not only on board with the change but happy. The second thing and we have discussed it previously is that EJ may benefit from sitting and learning (as many qbs have) more than he would being thrown into the fire. Players have commented on how they like what they have seen and EJ has mentioned how much he is learning by watching Orton. 2) I don't think our o-line was a strength under Gailey. Where Gailey was better than Marrone is that he masked their deficiencies much better. The quick throws negated the need for the lineman to hold their blocks and made them look better than they were. Hell Levitre has a big money contract to thank Gailey for. He has struggled mightily playing in a more traditional system. 3) I won't argue this. What I will say is that I like the design more recently that the offense has done particularly more screens. I will be interested to see how Spiller does when coming back. As for the common complaint of Spiller up the gut being a bad play, although it doesn't work, it does have its place. If every run Spiller did was to the outside teams would be able to game plan to stop that. Much like what is going on in NO with Jimmy Graham. When he is on the field teams know it is a pass. So they gear up to stop the pass. 4) Jauron was a terrible HC. Nice guy, good dc, terrible hc. As for Gailey his offenses were middle of the pack. Much like Marrone's. This is exactly where I stand. This was an incredibly unique situation. There are no overnight success stories in the NFL. Marrone has the arrow pointing up on this team. Well put!

Yup just on the cusp of gaining back respectability. It would however totally be a Bills move to do lol. This kind of backfires on you. That makes the fact that Marrone has them with a winning record in only his second year all the more impressive. I too am a champion of talent means more than coaching. That said your last line contradicts your first 3 if you think a competent coach can get this team over the hump. Improved QB play whether from Orton, EJ, or another will get this team to the playoffs. To me Marrone is 8-6 in spite of the shoddy qb play. Spurned lover alert. You're still a homer at heart which is why you think at wrost we have a top 10 talent team. I will give you the defense is phenomenal best we have seen in years. A top 5 unit by most measurements. The offense though? Orton is about the 20th best qb in the league, the line might be bottom 5 in the league, receivers top half but middle tier, rbs middle tier. They are close to a 10 talent level team and their record bears it out. Regardless of playoff standings the Bills currently have the 13th best record in the NFL. On another note being a big defender of Jauron, Edwards, Fitz, Gailey, etc., doesn't that like make you the Buffalo Barbarian of coaches where if you like a guy it's a bad thing? Maybe since you don't like Marrone he is a good coach?

Most wanted him to start on November 28th? Are you serious? That is 5 days after he was claimed by the Chiefs! This is why you think I'm slanting facts?!?! What does what the fans want have anything to do with Orton's performance? If you are going to credit him for these wins and claim he was a big part of it when leading the team to 13 ppg while starting then we are going to have to agree to disagree here. However if you are going to do that you can't complain about the current offenses performance because they are averaging more than 20 ppg. I still don't get what you are driving at though. In a different conversation with a different poster I left off 3 games to slant facts? You still haven't stated what facts I am slanting. He didn't come into KC and set the world on fire. He went into KC and played very similarly to what we are seeing now. Yes it was. Starting EJ, Thad, and Tuel. That is a project, a third stringer, and a practice squad player. Do you want to rank them any higher than Orton's 19-23? If not doesn't that go hand in hand with what I have been saying. Let me put it even more simply: Have you ever heard the phrase that QB is the most important position in sports? If so why do you think that is a common held belief? An offense's success or lack of pretty closely correlates with the talent at the qb position period.

I'm in the same boat. How can the guy who has led the team to the first non-losing season in 10 years even be in jeopardy. Any time I mention to people that there are some Bills fans who want him fired they are blown away by it. Forget accepting mediocrity this has to do with Marrone restoring respectability. At the beginning of the year there was a conversation on SVP and Rucillo (sp?) where they discussed who was worse off Oakland or Buffalo. SVP went on a long rant that it was Buffalo. 16 weeks later do you think that opinion has changed as one teams sits at 8-6 and the other at 2-12? Broadcasters were picking the Bills to win a game last week against the best team in the NFL. When was the last time that happened? Buffalo is no longer the game teams circle on their calendar as an easy win. I can't believe people want to replace the driving force behind that! I feel like I am going to have a NDBUFFCUSEfan style meltdown when discussing it .

I stopped reading. :nana: I have a different memory of Orton. I remember thinking he actually got a raw deal in Chicago. He outplayed Grossman and should have been starting over him. In Denver I remember him being terrible. (these are just my memories and admittedly it is a bit hazy). I just see a guy who doesn't look like he cares as much as we want him to. I referenced in the shout box the other day that he is Jay Cutler lite. Same attitude less arm talent. I think missing tc hurt him badly both from a conditioning aspect and a timing with his receivers aspect. I think he has taken a beating that he hasn't in a while and is 31 and it is harder to recover from. He only played in 13 games in the last 3 years and has now played 10 games in 11 weeks. There is a lot going into his performance slipping but to me coaching is waaaaayyyy down the list of things I think might be causing it.

Holy cow all of this is just false. Matt Cassell was the starting qb for the Chiefs. He got hurt against the Broncos November 13th at which point Palko took over. Orton joined the team on November 23rd. The coach (Todd Haley) got fired after the December 11th game (3 weeks later). You seriously think that it was because he didn't start the guy who they had just claimed?!?! I still don't get how this somehow validates Orton. He led the Chiefs offense to 19, 13, and 7 points in that order. So he regressed there as well (heavy sarcasm). He didn't come in and do magical things with the Chiefs he came in and did exactly what Kyle Orton does - plays mediocre. As for the rest of your post I actually agree with you. The margin of error is very small but that is, to me, in large part, because of Orton's lack of consistency, accuracy, and performance. He isn't the worst qb in the world. I believe yesterday we settled on somewhere between 19 and 22nd best in the league. Unsurprisingly the Bills offense is 23rd in ypg, 19th in passing ypg, and 18th in ppg. Right what you would expect.

Fantasy football semi finals in 2 leagues. So yeah money on the line is about the only reason lol.

Here I did it for the lazy. Stanford drafted players FSU Drafted Players Jameis has a very small window of which to draw from being as it is just last year. He had 1 first rounder, 2 second rounders, 1 3rd rounder, 2 4th rounders, and a 5th rounder. Since entering the league 3 drafts ago Stanford (outside of Luck) has had 1 first rounder, 4 2nd rounders, 0 3rd rounders, 2 4th rounders, 3 5th rounders, 1 6th rounder, and 1 7th rounder. So for those of you playing at home.... In 2 more years Stanford has produced the same number of 1st rounders, 2 more second rounders, 1 less 3rd rounder, same 4th rounders, 2 more 5th rounders, 1 more 6th rounder, and 1 more 7th rounder. I don't think your argument is holding up skycap...

Luckily with Orton I don't need to slant the facts. Bad stretches are the norm for Orton. Also the Chiefs won 4 out of 6 before Orton started playing what free fall are you talking about? He led the team to 19, 13, and 7 points it's not like he came in and set the world on fire for them. The reason I posted what I did earlier is beacuse I thought they correlated with what Kelly and I were discussing. Him falling off a cliff isn't unheard of and what we are seeing this year is him playing to his abilities or even slightly above them. Like I said this isn't bad Kyle Orton this is just Kyle Orton we are watching.

Last night at the end of the MNF game Tirico and Gruden started talking about how good the Bills defense is. It was surreal seeing positive Bills news that organically happened. It wasn't highlights of the game or a show where they talk about all of the teams. It was just them talking football and how good that defense was.

What happened before week 11 in 2008? He averaged 222 ypg passing with 10 tds and 4 ints. 2010? That might be his best year as a pro (remember I said this was shaping up to be his second best?) and he had a robust 58.8 completion % while throwing 20 tds to 9 ints. The teams record? 3-11 before he got benched for Tebow. End of 2011? after getting dumped by the Broncos he was signed by the Chiefs where he threw 1 td to 2 ints in 3 games. He led the team to 19,16, and 7 points respectively in those games. Now that I have filled you in on what happened what was the point of you asking?

Heisman is very meaningless when it comes to NFL success. Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, Matt Leinhart, and Troy Smith are all recent QBs who won the Heisman and did less than nothing in the NFL. All the hype for JFF and Tebow comes from college success. Where is the Tebow hype now? The eight Heisman winners who went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers: Doak Walker, Paul Hornung, Roger Staubach, O.J. Simpson, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders. 1 QB in the whole list. It might actually be the kiss of death for a qb to win it!

What I guess I am not understanding boils down to this right here. IF and that's a big if it is that he is "shackled" how does that effect him missing on several throws. The short pass to Freddy and the one linked above behind Woods are 2 perfect examples of throws that he just plain missed. How does being shackled lead to those misses? If he is coached to take the safe play and those are 2 very safe plays how is it coaching that is causing him to miss them?

I didn't mention his completion %. The number I listed was his quarterback rating. I just am having the hardest time wrapping my head around the idea that he is playing scared because the coaches are telling him to be so safe with the ball. It makes much more sense to me that he either is scared because of the hits he has taken or just isn't that interested in playing football for anything more than money. Both of those are much easier to believe to me than him being "neutered" by the coaching staff. At 10 years in the league what would he be scared of? Marrone already stated that he isn't in danger of being benched. Is he afraid they will yell at him on the sideline?

I just don't get where you are getting this from that he has never been this bad. I brought up previously in this thread that statistically this is about his 2nd best year of his career stat wise. Some things from Orton's wiki: 2005: Orton finished with the lowest quarterback rating in the NFL (59.7) among all "qualified" quarterbacks. Despite the low rating, the Bears coaches repeatedly insisted that they were pleased with Orton's performance. The coaching staff asked Orton to minimize mistakes and to let the rushing attack and the defense win ballgames rather than employing an aggressive passing attack. 2008: From week 11 on Orton threw eight touchdowns, and eight interceptions while averaging a quarterback rating of 66.9, including ratings of 39.1 against Minnesota, 49.2 against New Orleans, and 48.7 against Green Bay. 2011: Orton entered the 2011 season as the Broncos starting quarterback. The team had a 1–4 start with Orton throwing 8 touchdowns and 7 interceptions as the starter, accumulating 979 yards and completing 58.7% of his passes He was deemed not good enough by the Bears and replaced. He was deemed not good enough by the Broncos and replaced. The highest qb rating of his career was 87.5 he currently sits at 86.7. What you are seeing is not a ruined or bad Kyle Orton what you are seeing is Kyle Orton being Kyle Orton and actually a better than normal Kyle Orton. Where do you get this idea that "he has never been this bad?"

I didn't notice that but after watching it again he is open as is Fred on a route out of the backfield. So he had 3 out of 5 options very open on that play and threw an incomplete pass. Like I said plays like these make me question the players and not Hackett and his much maligned scheme.