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7-9,8-8, and 9-7 is right on the brink of success though. Let me ask you this: Do we become a better team by improving the offense or the defense? Which unit this year let you down more? Which unit do you think performed at or above expectations and which was a let down? For me the answers are all defense.

I really couldn't disagree more. Fix the defense and we win those important games. In a do or die game against the fins the Bills put up 31 points that should have won the game. In a huge road game the Bills were leading 24-9 went 3 and out twice (yes it happens to other teams too) and came back on the field down 30-24. The Bills scored 30+ in 6 games in those 6 games they were 4-2. They scored 25+ in 10 games and were 5-5 that is a huge indictment of the defense. The Chiefs are the 2 seed in the AFC and scored 25+ in 8 games and were 8-0. One side of the ball is handling their business and one side isn't. Even with the game 16 debacle the Bills still outscored the Chiefs this year.

Dammit I wish I knew you were going to do the work so I didn't have too lol Seriously we are watching a young qb develop and he is doing well imo. I'm gonna be really sad if this comes to fruition...

You weren't lying! Big Ben (5th and 6th years starting): 7812 yards, 7629 passing yards, 47 total tds, 43 passing tds, 27 ints, 90.3 qb rating, 63.25 comp % Tyrod: 7206 total yards, 6058 passing yards, 47 total tds, 37 passing tds, 12 ints, 94.5 rating, 62.7 comp % This includes a SB winning season for Big Ben. So over 2 years and 2 extra games Big Ben contributed 600 extra yards, the same amount of tds, 15 more ints, a worse qb rating and a comp % .5% better.

Because not every QB is the same. As much as we all agree Big Ben is a great QB does anyone think he is better than Rodgers? Here are the numbers though: Rodgers: 8708 total yards, 8474 passing yards, 62 total tds, 58 passing tds, 20 ints, 98.5 rating, 64.15 comp % Tyrod: 7206 total yards, 6058 passing yards, 47 total tds, 37 passing tds, 12 ints, 94.5 rating, 62.7 comp % So Tyrod accounted for 1500 less yards total, 15 less tds total, 4 points lower in qb rating and less than 2% comp % difference than one of the 2 best qbs in the game. In 3 less starts and 261 less attempts (for reference Tyrod had 436 attempts this year so 236 is a little more than an extra half a season of attempts) I can't say those numbers really hurt my argument...

So 1000 yards over 2 years means nothing? Or 2000 total yards. How about this one then (through 2 years): Tyrod: 7206 total yards, 6058 passing yards, 47 total tds, 37 passing tds, 12 ints, 94.5 rating, 62.7 comp % Russell Wilson: 7503 total yards, 6475 passing yards, 57 total tds, 52 passing tds, 19 ints, 100.6 rating, 63.6 comp% So over 2 years Russell Wilson (who everyone would love to have) has 300 more yards, 400 more passing yards, 10 more tds, and 7 more ints. Again I say, Bills fans have no idea what it is to watch a young qb develop.

This is the only qb route that will have me excited for the start of next year barring a TT return. A rookie is going to have a huge learning curve and I doubt they would perform as well as Tyrod this year. I agree but most aren't listening I missed that but it is a relief to hear. Do you know where I could find that quote? Every QB needy team is hoping he gets cut. Tyrod will immediately be the #1 QB available if cut. Seriously go look at that list. Its a who's who of guys you don't want your team banking their season on. So Joe B's story yesterday about the Bills cryptic tweet was much ado about nothing? Color me surprised.

Big Ben through 2 years: 5,219 total yards, 5006 passing yards, 38 total tds, 34 passing tds, 20 ints, 98.4 rating, 64.55 completion % Tyrod through 2 years starting: 7206 total yards, 6058 passing yards, 47 total tds, 37 passing tds, 12 ints, 94.5 rating, 62.7 comp % Bills fans have no idea what it is to watch a young qb grow. There will be ups and downs but when a guy compares favorably with someone like Big Ben or Russell Wilson through their first 2 years they should be worth holding onto. Seriously when was the last qb the Bills developed? Jim Kelly who started professionally for 2 years before coming to the Bills? I guess I can give that one. So 30 years ago Bills fans watched a qb grow. It's not all sunshine and roses while someone learns to play the position and there is a lot more good than bad with Tyrod. I really hope this isn't true.

What I took from it (I think anyway): Teams should stop looking at coordinators with units that do well. A hire needs to be more big picture. Having or leading a unit that excels doesn't guarantee success. The HC needs to be a leader and a manager more than an x's and o's kind of guy. I won't say it hurts to excel at x and o as that would be dumb but maybe strategy isn't as important as leading. I think about a Coughlin who needed to change his demeanor before he became the 2 time sb winning coach, John Harbaugh who's highest position was a ST coordinator, Pete Carroll who is a master motivator and I see guys who have more than just a nice resume of coordinator success. Conversely there are your Norv Turners, Wade Phillips, etc... who are great coordinators but not great HCs. I think it is a different skill set. Who knows maybe I am just trying to talk myself into Lynn or another lesser known guy.

Thanks. Had to edit it hope nobody saw anything before I fixed it! lol

I like to look at numbers as they remove a lot of emotion. I know they aren't perfect as they don't take into consideration a lot of context but I came across this and wanted to share as I thought it was interesting. DVOA (Defensive adjusted Value over Average) attempts to take numbers and add context to them. What I found was that coaches specialty and there resulting rankings didn't mirror like you think they would (much like Rex, a defensive guy, having a better offense than defense) Top 10 teams: 1. Denver - Kubiak is a former QB and OC 2. NYG - McAdoo was the OC last year 3. Arizona - Arians was an OC by trade 4. Philly - Pederson is a former OC and QB 5. Seattle - Defensive guy in Carrol 6. Baltimore - Harbaugh was a ST coordinator also DB Coach 7. Houston - BOB is an OC by trade 8. SD - McCoy is an OC by trade 9. Minn - Zimmer is a DC 10. Carolina - Rivera DV So 6 of the top 10 DVOA defenses (and the top 4) were led by an offensive minded HC. So it seems the HC background has little to no impact on whether a defense is successful. Furthermore 3 of the top 4 defenses will be sitting out of the playoffs as well as 6 of the top 10 will be missing the playoffs. I'm not sure what any of this means but I thought these numbers were interesting.

Yeah I don't want to take this to PPP territory but the recent election really showed (me at least) how bias every single reporting agency is. Fox News used to be the standard joke for slanted and biased reporting then I watched CNN, Huffington Post, NPR, the NYT, Washington Post, and others just make absolute fools of themselves. I wish it was just sports journalism that had taken this fall but it is an epidemic at this point. The worst thing about it is good quality reporters get grouped in with the idiots and their message is lost or worse decide that they must too be like that.

Just finished up "The Night Of" started slow, got really good in the middle, and then the end was just meh. How do I do spoiler tags so I can discuss it?

Here is a great example of that: http://deadspin.com/how-espn-manufactures-a-story-colin-kaepernick-edition-1185400028 This was the article that broke the proverbial camel's back for me. For a long time I had been jaded about ESPN but continued to watch. This article and situation perfectly showed what I had been feeling. So much sports "news" is created by the talking heads. It is really ingenious. Obnoxious but ingenious.

No matter the hire it is going to be hard to move my needle. All of the names mentioned don't really get me excited conversely none of the names give me the "we're doomed to failure" that the Dick Jauron hire gave me.

4th quarter comebacks when trailing by any amount. It really isn't as prevalent as you and other posters make it out to be and it involves a lot of other factors outside of qb play.

I gave you total wins when trailing by any amount. I can't find such a specific thing because IT'S A MADE UP STAT.

So does Aaron Rodgers suck because he does it at about the same rate as Tyrod? You have to reach pretty far for 4th quarter comebacks to be a relevant stat. Jay cutler has 21 so he must be better than Aaron Rodgers by your math.

Paging DC tom....

Ahh yes W/L the ultimate QB stat I get that everything I posted flies in the face of the "but he sucks" argument. You can hang your hat on comeback wins. Not paying attention to the fact that football is a team game and in his last game started he did just that TWICE and still got the loss. However I'm a sucker for proving people wrong.... 4th Quarter comebacks down any deficit: Jameis Winston has 3 in the same amount of time Marcus Mariota and Teddy Bridgewater have 4 in the same amount of time Blake Bortles has 5 starting an extra year Kirk Cousins has 7 starting 17 more games Sam Bradford has 7 starting 49 more games Aaron Rodgers has 10 starting 113 more games (shining star to prove it a useless stat) Tyrod averages 1 about every 15 starts same as Arod.

I guess this is the thread I will dump this info into: Tyrod had a better completion % than Cam Newton, Blake Bortles, Phillip Rivers, Jameis Winston, Carson Palmer, and Marcus Mariota Tyrod had a higher ypa than Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles, and Carson Wentz Tyrod THREW for more tds than Carson Wentz and Alex Smith Tyrod combined for more tds than Joe Flacco, Dalton, Tannehil, Bradford, Alex SMith and Carson Wentz Tyrod had less ints than EVERY qb except Brady and Dak Prescott Tyrod's QB Rating (not QBR) was higher than Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Jameis Winston, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz, Blake Bortles, and Cam Newton Tyrod has a better int% (takes into account ints per attempts) than Phillip Rivers, Jameis, Tannehil, Cam, Eli, Bortles, Big Ben, Luck, etc... - he is 8th in the league I could keep going but I think I have proven my point. If you think Tyrod is terrible you aren't paying attention to QB play around the league. I only included in this list names that I think people throw around as being better than Tyrod. Sure Tyrod took a step back this year but he had a better year than Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton. If they were the QB would people be banging the drum to replace them? With the injuries at WR and the sh*t show that was this years defense he has to be brought back imo. Go look at the FA QB list and answer this question honestly. If the Bills cut Tyrod does he move the #1 FA QB? Imo he does which means there is nobody better to bring in. I was just saying this same thing. After the team left Lynn to dangle in the wind last week and then Whaley this week letting Tyrod go with no plan in place will move me MUCH closer to NNN territory.

From your lips to gods ears

I want a 4-3 coach as I think that is the system that this talent fits.