mrags
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Just throwing this out there. I've thought about it some more and I'm beginning to suspect that Trent's last series of horrible throws was intentional. I don't believe he tried to throw the pick, but I'm starting to think he purposely dogged the balls to TO. Here is my evidence, would like to get everyone's thoughts.
1) Accuracy has never been a problem for Trent. He sucks at a lot of things (reading coverages, throwing deep, etc.), but he's NEVER had a problem throwing the 12-yard out. I don't ever remember him throwing passes ten yards over a receiver or skipping them into the dirt like that.
2) Let's recall what happened earlier in the game. TO claimed to be open and that Edwards was missing reads. Essentially, TO was doing what he does, which is pouting and demanding the ball. Apparently the coaches agreed and we can only assume that multiple coaches and players told Edwards to get TO the ball.
3) Edwards is thin-skinned. Just a hunch, no evidence, just the sense I get from his reactions to things said in interviews, etc. He likely did not take well to people telling him he was screwing up his reads and that he needed to find TO. So what does he do? He drops back and just fires the ball in TO's direction, off-target, twice, to prove a point.
4) Jauron's reaction. This is my number one piece of evidence. Jauron is a horrible coach, but he's not one to bench a player who is trying hard, and he especially isn't one to call out a player who is trying hard. Yet Jauron did both of those things on Sunday. He clearly was angry with Edwards for something, and given Jauron's history, chances are it wasn't just Edwards' poor performance. I strongly believe there was something else that Edwards must have done to anger his coach, and the only thing I can think of was that Jauron perceived that Trent was dogging it out of frustration. And the fact that Edwards may not start against Jax only confirms my suspicion that there is way more to this story.
Ok there is my conspiracy theory, have at it.
Almost a good point except 2 things scream out that it is not the case.
1) Trent does not have a future in football at this point, he needs to make as many plays as he can if he even wants to think about playing football for a career.
2) Why wait until the last drive? TO and Reed were loud on the sidelines after one of the drives. The very next drive Trent went deep to TO where he should have scored but ended up inside the 20.
You may have a point to #4 but I think its Jauron noticing that Trent has no passion for the game at this point. Trent is almost a waste of a roster spot at this point. Ive seen Fitz and Trent and they are not the answer, Id be willing to give Hamden a shot next week. Or hell, Jackson threw a TD pass, just run him out of the wildcat for the rest of the season.
QUOTE (dave mcbride @ Nov 17 2009, 10:13 AM)One slight problem: why would Edwards sabotage his own career by cutting off his nose to spite his face?
Ask Ralph why he put Crowell on IR last year, Im sure he has the answer for you.
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What about him? Luck is a freshman, he is not coming out this year.
I would probably go with Okung. Get a good LT & you have the makings of a decent line that will look something like this. Okung/Levitre/Wood/Butler/Bell. That is not to bad taking into consideration wood/levitre/bell should be better next year.
I dont think Bell will be in football next year. He probably should be because he might have some upside to him. But potentially being out the rest of the season the chances are he gets cut by the new regime (if that happens). They would probably keep Wood, Handy, Levitre and Butler. That to me is pretty solid with the exception of the LT which we desperately need, but a new coach might be able to make something out of no one or pick someone up in FA. That way we can still get the franchise QB.
It all means nothing unless we get a new coach though. You could put the best LT in the league (oh wait, we might have had him) and Payton Manning on this team and they might not got .500. The coaching staff is probably the worst in the league.
Id take a QB personally. We can find a serviceable LT or find one later in the draft, and we have Stroud for now and that should be enough while switching to a 3-4. Then I would probably pick LT with the 2nd pick, and a LB in every round until the draft is over with.
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See, and I think that is coaching... the coaches don't seem to be able to overcome other teams adjustments either. Can you ever remember, particularly on offense, this Jauron staff making any in-game adjustments, that worked? I can't.
I will admit, I really thought Edwards was going to be a good starting QB for us, for the next decade. I liked Losman, but, it was pretty apparent that there was just something lacking with that kid... I thought Edwards was perhaps not the athlete that JP was, but was just a tad smarter...all that may be true still, but I am really starting to believe (and I know it sounds like a cop-out) but the mix of the mediocre talent/horrendous coaching are just setting up an atmosphere where nobody can succeed.
Edwards game has regressed... but so too has this entire team. Has any player gotten better? Have they developed any talent? Most of the "good players" they have (Lee Evans, McGee, Schobel...can't think of a lot more), are about as good, and effective, as they were, before Jauron got there. The one true star that they have discovered, Fred Jackson, seems to be an afterthought to this inept staff. He has been their only offensive spark all season, yet he is relegated to being a "change of pace back"... I don't think Turk Schoenert was the problem....
This team has not gotten better, I would say, in any area,than they were, before Jauron came. In fact, they are significantly worse in most areas. You can point to the secondary, but their effectiveness can be, in part, a tribute to their awful run defense...why pass, when you can just run it down their throats?
Edwards seems to have gotten soft, mentally... he really has taken on the persona of his coach. I still hold out more hope for him that he can resurface somewhere as a competant QB, but I don't think that is going to happen in Buffalo. It happened with Drew Brees. He was pretty bad to awful in San Diego...but so was the team around him. He found the right match in Peyton and the Saints. Brees may be a little mentally tougher...
Agree with everything except the Brees comment. His light just happened to click on and he was good for 2 years before leaving SD for NO.
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The same Trent Edwards that played the perfect game against the Pats and almost beat them, the same Trent Edwards that had a good game going for three quarters against the Titans until our OC and HC started having brain farts, sure,
Free Beer, you bet.
I'll take your bet Heels and when Trent Edwards start's next season I'll personal message you on where to send my case of Budweiser and if he doesn't start all season long you can do the same. You said never be a starter, but just to give you a better chance we will go one season.
FYI almost doesnt count as a win. The Bills ALMOST beat the Giants in Super Bowl XXV, The Sabres ALMOST made it to the cup finals a few years ago, I ALMOST won the lottery, and you are ALMOST making sense.
Almost doesnt mean crap. The Bills have almost won like 8 more games in the last 3 years then they have. But they didnt. They lost them. It was the bad coaching, bad players, bad play calling, and bad quarterback play.
And anyone would be extremely smart to take your bet on starting the entire season since Trent hasnt finished an entire season w/o injury since he was a freshman or sophmore at Stanford.
Dude, you need to get over Trent. Hes not the next coming of Jim Kelly, or Dan Marino, or even Chad Pennington for that matter. He makes bad decisions, doesnt have the balls or game face to play and take the right chances to be a starting caliber NFL quarterback. We have given him just as long or longer then JP Losman what is it going to take for Edwards fans to finally give up on him? Ya know what, I dont care, go down with your boy. The rest of the fans that know what were talking about will be cheering on the new QB come spring time.
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Ah, I see. Since you cannot refute the argument, insult the poster.
Got it.
Aren't you the same poster that tried to claim Edwards was/would be better than Kelly?
While you continue to think of new insults for me, I will leave you with some more info tidbits:
Good/great players inspire those around them to play even better.
During the preseason, it was revealed not a single Bills player would not unequivocally say Trent Edwards was the leader on the team.
During the preseason, it was also revealed both Lee Evans and TO were constantly telling "Trentative" to throw the ball down field.
Now, feel free to B word about TO's body language all you want. But I do not think TO is the problem there. In fact, I think it speaks volumes of his opinion of this offense, and more importantly, of "his" QB. Hell, even Donte called out the offense.
It's beginning to look like the players have given up on Mr. Edwards.
But feel free to support that sinking ship.
Be careful, your making too much sense. The Edwards lovers might not like it.
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The Bills I do understand, but the Sabres..well they are 12-4-1 right now, have a nice young nucleus and appear to be on the way up, do not give up on the Sabres, it is amazing how the Bills can make Regier looks like a genius
It is hard to make the point about the Sabres considering how well they are doing this year, but to think that they have made smart moves to help the franchise win is a joke. They let go of Briere, Drury, McKee, Campbell, Grier, and countless others including an actual decent backup goalie all while spitting in the face of fans and saying they are trying to put together a winner. They happened to get lucky with a few draft picks that have worked out and thats the only difference from last season to this season. Just wait until Miller gets injured, or worn out, or Connolly misses 50 games with a hang nail or ingrown hair, or maybe a rotted out nose from all the coke he blows, or anyone else gets injured. They are severely thin at this point and have purged Portland's roster with anyone that could be of any help. I am hoping they get lucky and dont have lots of injuries this year, but Im putting it out there right now, they will be in serious trouble with just a few injuries at the wrong times.
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With the exception of Hardy, this is a lousy idea.
What young guys? Why?
What is Harris going to learn by allowing 200+ rushing yards per game (other than be risking injury by being worn down by the 4th quarter)?
This team has really imploded this season. That's not TO, and that is not because they blew up the offensive line. The whole team takes way too many penalties, and does not play with any sort of unity. What has happened to our special teams? Why is Parrish riding the bench?
This team seems so backwards in so many things.
Do we really have to wait 7 more weeks for regime change?
At first I was all for starting the young guys as well but now I see your point. What good is it going to do to get the young guys on the field and murdered every weekend, learning bad habits from a bad coaching staff while their at it. I agree with everything you said except Parrish. Hes a POS and cant make his way off the bench IMO.
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Itd be one of the best in history. First 4 picks, Oher, Wood, Byrd and Levitre? Damn
I just had an orgasm thinking about that. Regardless if Maybin is a bust or will become the next Dwight Freeney. Hes not doing anything now, hasnt all year. If we had Oher instead we could have fixed our line in one draft. It might not be playing like a pro-bowl unit but at least they would all be starting and gaining experience which is way more than you can say for Aaron "Maybe". Next year that line would be much better and we could draft another young project at DE, or pick one up in FA. It would have been the same outcome as what we got this year.
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Never going to happen. The guy I would love to have on that list and is possible to come here is Chad Pennington. Chad is a veteran QB who can play smart and give you a chance to win almost every game. Yeah he is limited and not the long term awnser but if you draft a QB high Chad is a guy who can be a smart teacher and give the guy a chance to learn while Chad takes the ball.
Big time free agents are never going to come to the Bills as long as they are bad. We don't want to overpay for mid level talent and most guys just don't want to play on a bad Buffalo team even if the price is right.
I also think the Bills have an outside shot at Derrick Johnson if they are going to land a somewhat big name. He fills a need and won't come at the biggest price (He will cost a decent price but not a crazy bidding war) so if a new regime comes in and they want a guy to make an impact that's a guy I could see targeting. He would be a smart pick up and help out this D so much.
I would also like to see this team go after some veteran backups. This team (Other then the secondary) is pretty thin. I know its hard to spend on depth but if you can't land the big names land some guys that can make this team deeper and more prone to finishing strong.
Agreed about Pennington. I looked at that list and said if we could get #1 and #10 it would be the best offseason ever. Other possibilities are Seymour, Merriman. Draft a LT, QB, LB and switch to a 3-4. Would be so simple if Ralph would just spend some money. UGH!!!
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The bills need a LOT of things......... but more than anything they need a franchise qb. Get the qb and fill in with some fa's and other draft picks to help fill out the ol. You see alot more OL that become solid players that are picked in the later rounds than qb's. But to do anything in the NFL you have to have a top notch qb. A big part of the bills prob is their head coach, but also defenses are right up on the line and that kills the running game. They know that 99% of the time our qb's then throw the 4 yr outlet pass or so much pressure has come through the qb gets sacked. If you had a qb that could make throws down the field and into small windows the defense is forced to back off and that helps the oline and running game with not having 8-9 guys in the box.
Obviously coaching and their staff and game planning helps too, which unless we see a house cleaning it won't change the bills fortunes.
I agreed with us needing a Franchise QB, I was just picking out flaws in the previous posters info. The truth is there are many ways to find a Franchise QB. Personally, Id rather trade for a young one, or get an experienced FA and draft a young one early to ensure that we have experience and depth right away.
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Buffalo doesn't have the worst o-line in the NFL, at least not according to the stats.
And yes, it I believe it does matter who you have behind the line. Do you honestly believe that Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Ben Roethlisberger (I pick them not only because they're elite QBs, but also because they have average-at-best running games) wouldn't do significantly better behind Buffalo's OL than Edwards and Fitzpatrick? I'd like to point out, at this time, that Buffalo's sacks given up went down by almost 2 sacks/game (3.28 vs. 1.45) in games that Fitzpatrick played--which tells me that at least a decent chunk of the pass protection problems comes from Edwards being unable to sense a pass rush. To boot, of the teams Edwards faced (NE, TB, NO, Mia, Cle, and NYJ--for 1 quarter), only Miami ranks in the top half of the league in sacks, so it's not as if he faced teams that pressure the QB consistently. I'm not talking up Fitzpatrick here, because I don't think he's good either, but a QB has to be able to sense pocket pressure, and clearly Edwards has an issue with it.
Great QBs prosper in spite of poor line play. Roethlisberger did it in 2008 when Pittsburgh gave up 49 sacks and went on to win the Superbowl, Brady did it in 2007 by going 18-1 even when the Patriots line play completely broke down toward the end of the season (they gave up only 5 more sacks than the Bills did that year--an average of 0.31 sacks/game--while Buffalo finished 11th in the NFL in fewest sacks allowed, and only won 7 games), Roethlisberger did it in 2005 when Pittsburgh gave up 47 sacks and won the Superbowl, and Philadelphia gave up 37 sacks (1 less than Buffalo) in 2004 when they won the NFC Championship.
My point is simply that great QB play trumps OL play. I'll stop grandstanding about it now, as I'm sure most of you have read my feelings on this topic (and the associated myriad of data) before. I guess it just makes more sense to me to find a franchise QB first. Look at how awesome New Orleans' offense is, and they're starting a 4th round pick at LT, a 5th round college tackle at LG, someone else's 5th round pick from 2002 at C, a 4th round pick at RG, and a 2nd round pick at RT. I dare say it's the QB that makes it all work.
Just my 1 cent.
Ya, What he said ^^^^
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Good move. Still a Bill, Parrish will be on the trading block in the offseason, and maybe he'll fetch a 5th or 6th. If the Bills don't trade Roscoe, he'll battle for a roster spot next year.
Isnt Roscoe a FA at the end of this year? Can someone provide a link to his contract?
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LMAO!
Ellison is garbage, the only reason he ever made it into this league is thanks to the loser D scheme we run.
Some people will say "Well, he shouldn't be a starter, but he's a very nice back-up". I disagree, because every time he is in the game, (other than a handful of positive plays) he sucks. Once that was established, he's not a very nice back-up at all. If you can't count on a player to not suck, you get him off the team and try someone else, especially since LBs of his caliber are a dime-a-dozen. For now, I would play the rookies & keep bringing in players like Draft until you find a half-way decent stopgap & until you can make a significant upgrade in the off-season.
Other people will say "Well, look at all the tackles he's making, he's one of the best players on D this year." Once again, stats are for losers, this isn't baseball, watch the games & players instead of reading about them.
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Good to see there are still some sane people on this board
Agree, Great post
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The Bills went 1-1 with RF. TE gets credit for the Jets win.
Actually Byrd should get credit for that win. LOL
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You draft for or trade for the franchise QB first, if you don't have one on your team. Look at all the succesfull teams -they have a franchise QB, Go right down the line:
Colts: Peyton Manning. Bill Polians' first draft pick after taking over in Indy in 1998. Nice way to start, huh?
Steelers: Big Ben: first round draft pick. (Taken the very pick before the Bills in 2004!)
Bengals: Palmer: first round draft pick.
Pats: Already had Bledsoe, their first round draft pick on the team, so they took a flyer on Brady in the 6th round.
(Only the great teams are lucky, right?)Chargers: Rivers; first round draft pick, traded from the Giants during the draft for Eli.
Broncos: Straight up trade for starting QB's to get Orton from Chicago, working out terrific, but they traded their own first round draft pick because he wanted out of town.
Ravens: Flacco - first round draft pick.
Cowboys: The Exception: Tony Romo - I don't even know what round he was drafted in, but I know he wasn't a number one pick for Dallas.
Saints: Traded for Brees, a starting franchise-type QB having some success with San Diego, but became super human with the Saints offense since the trade. Brees was originally drafted at the top of the second round by SD.
Falcons: First round draft pick - Matt Ryan.
Vikings: Signed HOF legend Brett Favre out of his 9th retirement. Nice first half so far, but watch for the 40 year old to struggle as the season wears on, weren't the Jets 5-3 or 6-2 at the half way mark last year too??
Eagles: McNabb is still there 10 years later, a first round draft pick. Looks like young Kolb may be a keeper too.
Giants: Eli - number one pick in the draft traded to the Giants for Rivers by SD.
I do agree with your comment about getting a QB that can lead your team for years but you are wrong on some of your points about the QB's listed above.
Tom Brady- A 6th round pick is hardly a flyer. Would you consider Cary Harris a flyer? They might have seen some major talent in him to draft him, but to think they were extremely high on him at the time would be rediculous since they waited 5 rounds to draft him.
Orton- To think that Denver wanted Orton over Cutler (with the exception of Cutler's attitude over the offseason) is rediculous. They also received a 1st round pick in 2009 and 2010, a third round pick in 2009, and only had to give up a 5th rounder in 2009. To say they wanted the trade because they wanted Orton makes anyone look dumb. It was the compensation they received.
Tony Romo- Undrafted
Drew Brees- In 04 he was signed as the Franchise Player with SD and played out the 05 season. He then became a FA and was picked up by NO after battling with Miami for his services. Many teams were hesitant to sign him based on his 2 years of success and a shoulder injury.
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i think major's point, and excuse me if i'm wrong, is that it wasn't a discussion about Vick, perse, but rather noting that players are questioning personnel in their own locker room.
Whitner, as noted in my story yesterday, outright said that players are replaceable when they're not getting the job done. he included himself, but it was in response to a question in regards to whether he's sensitive to the fact that by wanting Vick, he could be stirring the pot with players at that position.
it's not just that he wants Vick, it's that he believes Vick is better than the above. and i'm wondering whether that sentiment is a good one to have in furthering a "team" concept.
and whether or not Vick lands in Buffalo next season, the observation made by major is that players -- and i'm not sure what Fred Jackson said -- are beginning to publicly question their teammates' value, or at least in Whitner's case, questioning their teammates value by ommission.
jw
Its a good thing he included himself in that comment because DW should be the first one to pack his locker up and leave.
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Not me. Best case scenerio is McNiel comes in as a FA. In that case I still target the best T in the draft because one tackle is not enough to help this line. Hang leaves much to be desired at C and Wood shifting there fixes that. But who plays G? Butler going back is an option but he has his ACL to worry about. Even if he can play we need a G or T to fill in where ever he is not. IMO you HAVE to jump at the chance to get two bookend tackles and hope Butler can come back from injury to play G. If not Hang can hold down the spot until Butler is back. Even with all that we are still in need of more depth along the interior, because as of right now NONE of our backups inside belong in the NFL.
Aaron Rogers has shown he is one of the better QBs in the league. He is playing great even with getting no protection, but while his play is very high the sacks that result in negative yardage are killing their team. I heard on ESPN this week that only one time this season, last week vrs TB, has Rogers been sacked AND the Packers have had that drive produce points. AKA if Rogers gets sack, drive over. So while great blocking is not imperative to QB success, it is imperative to team success. The Bills have had zero success recently, and it relates directly to the OL.
I agree with your point about the OL. I do believe that a good QB can make a bad OL look better and vice versa. We obviously need many things in the draft. Maybe we should draft the best 2 OL'men in the draft with our first 2 picks available. Then go all LB's with the rest of the picks. I would personally be ok with that. But if we do that we need a QB. Trent, Fitz are not getting it done. I understand with a better line they might be better, but they still arent making the right decisions. Maybe we can trade Lynch for something of worth or extra picks. That would work IMO. I also believe Kolb is a FA this year. I would be all about taking him at QB if we got our line cleaned up. The guy had two 300+yrd games in his first 2 starts ever. It seems like he can play. Just dont offer him any Rob Johnson kind of contracts.
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Trent will look like absolute crap and should be pulled by halftime. It will make no difference if he is or not though as Fitz sucks too. I dont think Dicky will make the call but he should. Its not going to be pretty.
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It's funny no one is beating the drum on the Byrd pick now. I'm sure I could go back and find some nice posts about that one.
OMG, so right about that one. Im not sure what pick the fans of this board hated more, Byrd or Maybin. Seems everyone has shut up about Byrd at this point.
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Man, all of this drafting a QB talk is way too premature. It will do no good to have Tom Brady or one of the Manning's under center if he is always on his arse.
The Bills need an offensive line. I like Wood, Hangartner, Levitre, and Butler. McKinney is good depth. I hope that Meredith and Bell do mature into starting offensive tackles for the Bills, but neither should be starting right now.
Chambers is horrible. I'm not too fond of Scott.
Right now, with losing Chambers and Scott and having both MEredith and Bell on the #2 roles at the tackle positions, the depth would be ok. This would also give a project like Bell time to mature and grow into the position.
But a real LT (I would draft #1 this year on a LT), and perhaps a later round RT and/or free agent would help round out the line.
Any other focus other than the line would be a colossal mistake (that includes picks for the secondary).
I agree with just about everything you said except I think Butler could be our RT (he woudl have been this year if not for injury) and play well enough to be decent to good.
Draft the best OL'men in the draft with your 1st pick, possibly a QB if there is a decent one there with your 2nd pick, or a starting caliber LB (Poz, Mitchell, Ellison just arent cutting it). But all this means absolutely nothing if we still have the same FO, Coachs, Scouts making the picks.
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I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future?
I personally would have to wait until FA happens. Obviously if there is a decent QB, or LT/RT that is there for the taking at FA that totally changes my draft plans. Someone posted in another thread to make a run at McNabb during the offseason. That may be a possibility it may not be, but if we could get some decent FA QB I would be all for drafting the best OL'men in the draft with our first pick and get the best QB with our second. Gives us a chance to be competitive right away if we happen to pick a stud OL'men while letting a rookie QB learn behind an experienced QB. And if we fail because the FA QB sucks we have the QB waiting to take over the reigns.
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he's not 5'10". they may list him at that but he's a lot smaller. even the broadcasters on MNF were commenting how he's around 5'5" to 5'6"
Honestly, I dont think anyone is going to care what Joe Buck, or Troy Aikman, or Solomon Wilcots has to say about the guys size. The NFL and Washington Redskins list him at 5'10". I also have a friend that played against London in college, he laughed when he heard claims that he was 5'5". I'm not sure about all of you, but I think I'll take the NFL and my good friend's word for it when they say he is 5'10".
On another note, if the NFL lies about his height by 5-6 inches does that mean they lie about Roscoe's weight at 175lbs?
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I would take McNabb in a heartbeat. I have a feeling if they fail in the playoffs he may be on the way outs. The other thing is we would need to draft a rookie QB early. The rook would get a few games of playing time each year as McNabb usually gets hurt for a few.
Trent's last series
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Thanks BB,
It seems like some people still dont understand what took place with that Crowell move. I cant say I blame Ralph on that one tho. What AC did was dumb but putting him on IR may have caused us a playoff birth that year. Just like every year since weve had Jauron as the HC, that year we were extremely thin at LB (sound familiar and very much like a trend?) and John Digorgio and Keith Ellison had to step in, in AC's absence. If we could have gotten AC back by week 6 (which was expected) we might have made a few more plays.
And your right on about the LT position as well. The only reason why we didnt sign JP is because he took his toys and went home only to not call back for months. And then when it came time for him to miss out on any money he was right back with the team, telling them he missed them all along only to do it again the next year. So yeah, your damn right about it being vindictive.