Leonidas

Why you don't trade up for a tackle, not this year: From http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index...p;thread=333250 "Now here comes another draft and, just like last year, four left tackles might go off in the first 15 selections. The need certainly is there. But is there the talent to spawn the next Pace or the next Roaf? No, say general manager A.J. Smith of San Diego, former Cleveland GM Phil Savage and Tennessee scouting coordinator Blake Beddingfield, among many other scouts. "In another draft none of these guys would be top five," Seattle Seahawks scout Charles Fisher said. "They're good players, but I wouldn't consider any of these guys as pure franchise cornerstones. Branden Albert is more athletic than all these guys." Nineteen scouts with a national perspective participated in a Journal Sentinel survey asking them to rank the five best offensive linemen. A first-place vote was worth five points, a second was worth four and so on. The results were exceedingly close, at least among three of the Big Four left tackles. Baylor's Jason Smith gained a slight edge over Virginia's Eugene Monroe in points, 74-70. However, Alabama's Andre Smith, who was third with 64 points, had six first-place votes compared with seven for Jason Smith and only three for Monroe. It's an indication that scouts either really like Andre Smith or don't like him at all, and that enthusiastic endorsement of Monroe is hard to come by. Meanwhile, Mississippi's Michael Oher had the other three first-place votes but was a distant fourth in points with 38. Four voters left him off their ballots entirely. "The tackles, you can find reasons why all of them will struggle," an AFC personnel director said. "One with weight (Andre Smith), one with anchor (Jason Smith), one with passion (Monroe) and one with intelligence (Oher)." A personnel director for another AFC team recalled just how simple it was evaluating Ogden and Boselli and Roaf. "When I saw Jason Smith during the fall, yes, I thought he'd be a solid first-round pick for somebody," Savage said. "But I never dreamed people would be talking about him as the first pick in the whole draft. You've got to be kidding me." In a draft minus great prospects, the top 10 is going to include some players who would have been taken in the mid- to late teens or even the 20s in a more typical year. Nobody is saying this class of offensive linemen will approach 1986, when four of the seven first-rounders (Brian Jozwiak, James FitzPatrick, Mike Haight and Mike Schad) went down as busts. Then again, no one is saying that it won't. "I like the group," said Trent Baalke, San Francisco's director of player personnel. "But it's like the wide-receiver group: There's something in each one of them that makes you uneasy. The safest of the group is Monroe." When the hemming and hawing was over and scouts were ready to declare which player had the best chance to bust, the vote on the Big Four fell this way: Andre Smith 8, Oher 6, Monroe 1 and Jason Smith 1." ...especially not for Andre Smith: ANDRE SMITH Alabama 6-4 325 5.29 1 Started 38 straight games at LT, including all 13 as a freshman in '06. "My God," one scout said. "Just put the film in. The (expletive) guy can play football." That fact has become overlooked in the midst of his recent misadventures. First, he was suspended for the Sugar Bowl for dealing with an agent. Second, he left the combine half a day early without telling anyone. Third, he turned in less than auspicious numbers at his pro day. "The character, the weight stuff, the non-working stuff . . . he's got a lot of ways he can screw it up," another scout said. "He's just lazy. Takes the easy way out. He plays that way." Hails from a strong two-parent home in Birmingham, Ala. "The kid's a great kid," a third scout said. "He's just very country." Often compared to Shawn Andrews (6-4, 345, 5.48), who became an all-pro guard for the Eagles. At the very least, scouts say he should excel at guard. Almost all love his ability to knock people off the ball. "The onus is on him to become more disciplined and get his body firmed up," Hardaway said. "Willie Roaf's body was way better than this guy's. But he's got the feet, the wing span (35 3/8 -inch arms, longest by far of the leading tackles). The athletic movements put him in the level of Chris Samuels. But he ain't a great player by no stretch of the imagination." Wonderlic of 17.

Actually, this is the deepest TE draft class in years. And nothing is clear about where Pettigrew is going. Otherwise I'd agree with you 100%.

Thanks for letting me know. Glad you could be the judge and jury on this one. You've certainly proven yourself to be a worthy contributor. Why not trade away the entire draft? It worked for Mike Ditka in NO, right? And Minny in the 90's?? Moron... The great part is, your name is "High on Bell." Why not make it "Not so High on Bell," or "High on Mortgaging the Future"? How about "High on Andre Smith"? Or how about "I just have no !@#$ing idea what I'm talking about but hate when people make valid points that disagree with my line of thought"...??

Either their posturing, or yes, they are. FWIW, many of their fans are too, since apparently the majority support this idea: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=87682

Heyward-Bey might be there at #29. There's no way they move up to #11 for him. The only WR at #11 would be Maclin. To do that trade it would have to be for a fourth and Kiwanuka, or something to that effect. They'd never do it. They could have Braylon Edwards for less.

You don't make the trade unless you are comfortable going into the season with what you have or what you can reasonably ascertain. If the Peters situation forces you to trade the farm for a guaranteed bust like Andre Smith then you don't do it! That being said, there are other ways to address the situation, and there are other holes on this team to fill. Really? How is that, tough guy? I know who did the nine reps - I was the one who posted the link last week you dolt. And unlike the Bell fan club - and there is one - I'm not sold on him, but he's had a full year and allegedly has talent. He's not being thrown in there either, he's being allowed to compete with three other players for the position. But let me know when I'm "too stupid for this board," please. I don't think you do. If you think mortgaging the future for Andre Smith then you obviously don't.

Sorry, two first day picks and a second day picks. It's irrelevant. Trading up for Andre Smith?? Are you people INSANE??? If you didn't feel comfortable enough with what you had without Peters before trading him then that should have come into your thought process when pulling the trigger on a trade. And this idea that these are the only tackles worth drafting is nonsense. I'll settle down when the draft has come and gone and we haven't mortgaged our future for a guaranteed bust. Until then, eat me. I have no idea. I haven't seen him play. None of us really have. But I'd rather grab a guy like Britton, or Beatty or Loadholt and let them compete with Bell, Walker, Chambers, and any other FA we deem worthy to pick up. I don't think people understand that good teams build franchises by manipulating the draft for value, not just throwing draft picks around to grab highly rated players. Just because Monroe is a top tackle in this draft class doesn't make him an all-world tackle. While his "bust factor" is very low, if you were going to trade up for him you might as well have just paid Peters and stayed with the #11 draft pick.

You are a complete !@#$ing moron, I'm sorry. This guy has been labeled the biggest bust prospect of the draft and has a a better than average chance of being moved to guard when all is said and done, and you want to give up THREE first day draft picks for him? I'm sorry, I have to put you on "ignore," you're causing my blood pressure to skyrocket. I was all for trading Peters. His contract demands were crazy and his production didn't merit them. But Smith won't be any cheaper! None of the guys will be, and at least with Peters, for better or worse, you knew what you were getting. All this talk about Demetrius Bell is for naught if this happens and we set our franchise back another decade. This doesn't even make any sense from a posturing standpoint. Who are you trying to fool in this scenario??? You might hear a single gunshot 5:00pm Saturday.

Are you reading the same article the rest of us are?? DEFENSIVE ENDS Name School HT. WT. 40-Yd. Dash Rd. 1. TYSON JACKSON Louisiana State 6-4 296 4.96 1 2. AARON MAYBIN Penn State 6-4 250 4.73 1 3. ROBERT AYERS Tennessee 6-3 272 4.80 1 4. EVERETTE BROWN Florida State 6-1 1/2 256 4.66 1-2 5. MICHAEL JOHNSON Georgia Tech 6-7 266 4.69 1-2 OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS Name School HT. WT. 40-Yd. Dash Rd. 1. BRIAN ORAKPO Texas 6-3 262 4.65 1 2. CLAY MATTHEWS Southern California 6-3 245 4.61 1 3. LARRY ENGLISH Northern Illinois 6-2 252 4.83 1-2

Maybe. It all depends on how long he plays and at what level. Personally, I love him for Matty Ryan. Ryan is a guy who is playing well beyond his years and Gonzo will be nothing but a good influence on him. That being said, I think Gonzo was quoted last year at only wanting to play "one, maybe two more years." Does he retire after the '09 season? Possibly. If he does - assuming Atlanta doesn't make the SB thanks to Gonzo - then KC ripped them off. But if Gonzo does the Brett Favre thing (with albeit less drama and perhaps quicker decision making rather than at the start of training camp every year), performs at a high level and solidifies the position for the next four years as the Falcons continue to progress as perennial contenders while KC squanders the draft pick on a notoriously thin draft, then Atlanta won. I just happen to think the former is far more likely. Pioli's no dope. He dangled the piece in front of the Atlanta FO and they took it. For a third rounder, at his age, it would have been more fair IMO.

If Philly goes Pettigrew it isn't the end of the world. The TE draft class is very deep, and we still need an OT at some point. #28 is a pretty good spot to grab one, assuming we go DE at #11 (a big assumption, I know).

I'm sure it's true that Detroit wants an LT out of this draft, but with so many holes to fill I don't see them trading up to #11 to do it. Plus, they're going to spend a fortune on #1, I wouldn't expect them to want to do it again at #11. IMO, our best chance to trade down would be SD at #15 so they could leapfrog Denver and get Tyson Jackson (or Raji, if he falls), and pick up a third while we're at it. Although, not having a second round pick this year, they might not be so eager.

Nicks and Britt aren't first round talents (Britt might be a high 2, I think Nicks certainly isn't). Maybe Heyward-Bey. Besides, I wouldn't expect Reid to take a 1st round WR, but that's just me. I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong.

Very, very interesting. Falling to #28 is a definite possibility now. Will Philly take him at #21? That would be a kick in the nuts. They overpaid for Gonzo, by the way, unless he decides to play until he's 37.

Connor Barwin #5 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 60 0 0 Birth Date October 15, 1986 Hometown HAZEL PARK, MI Height 6-4 Weight 255 lbs. Stats Overview Tackles Misc Interceptions YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2005 2 2 0 0 2006 8 8 0 0 2007 3 3 0 0 2008 47 26 21 10

Here's a question: why is Orakpo listed as a OLB while Brown and Maybin are listed at DE's? I would think it would be the opposite, if anything.

Awww, you're all breakin' my heart! It was a line from Dilbert. Relax, people. But hey, if you want to encourage posts like this... You know, your bitterness towards J.P. Losman as a person is unnecessarily petty. He didn't intentionally screw up the Bills. He didn't hold out for a contract or a bonus or anything like that. He tried his best and failed. Good riddance to a bad player, but a bad person he was not.

I wanted to you know that it's while it's not TSW policy to shoot retarded posters, it is not out of the question.

Give me a break. When was the last time you did something for the community? This guy came into town, settled down immediately, worked his ass off, all while doing what he could to help out the surrounding community. When it went to sh-- his community work went downhill, but does that surprise you? Something tells me he had other things on his mind like, I dunno, his future? For all we know he was probably battling depression-type symptoms as any of us would when our future is in doubt. Either he's a bum for slacking off when he wasn't starting, or else he spends too much time with the Parks and Rec. Dept. and not enough on the playbook.

Thank you. Do people seriously think they preferred the #28 pick to the #21, still having $10M+ in cap room? You people are awfully hard on the organization.

1) I would prefer Orakpo to Brown, far and away. Orakpo is faster, bigger, and played against tougher competition. 2) There is zero chance of Pettigrew falling to #28, so don't get your hopes up. 3) No idea who that OLB is, but there should still be decent OT's there for pickup.

Losman lives three doors down from my aunt. I've never met him, but he has been an all-world guy for the community. I literally wish him the best of luck, whether it be a star in the UFL, or a competent starter in the NFL. Not the best QB, but a classy, stand-up guy.

Another quality post...

Bust city. Population: 292,648. You sir, have come across as having more than a "semi-educated" opinion. I do, however, differ on your opinion of Oher (although you've undoubtedly seen more of him than I have), and hope both him and Smith are gone by #11. I like the thought on the centers though, and would love to take one at #42 (Mack is rated the highest but I couldn't tell you the differences between him, Wood, and Unger except that Unger apparently got blown up in the Senior Bowl). I know you're not big on Orapko, but I have to think he's the best 4-3 DE out there and am willing to have egg on my face two years from now if he doesn't pan out. That would leave #28 for an OT, right? Britton or Beatty? And/or Loadholt in the 3rd? There's no way Smith goes to KC...

Well I know Ralph signs the paychecks, but he should defer to the scouts on this one. Of course whether he will or not is an entirely different issue altogether...