Billsrhody

The reason I only used the top 3 receivers on both teams is because usually the difference between the 4th and 6th receiver on a team is pretty insignificant. Like you said, the 4-6th receiver on the bills roster didnt account for much. Likewise, the 4-6th receiver on the bengals roster did not either. For example I could do the same thin you just did with the bengals team. Andre Caldwell and Andrew Hawkins, the 4th and 5th receivers for the Bengals, each missed 3 games last year due to injury. In any case, The bills top 3 receiving targets were on the field for the whole season in buffalo, just like the bengals top 3 receivers were. You're missing the point anyways. What if I put it this way.. Would you trade all of the Bills weapons right now for all of the bengals weapons? (WR, TE, RB)

Agreed.. A margarita pizza in Italy is as good as it gets

Is it sad that I watch this at least once a week?

The defense should lead to more wins if it is significantly better than last year's unit (which it should be). However, its probably not going to have a huge impact on the number of INTs and TDs Fitz throws. He's always going to be a QB who takes risks with some throws and tries to gun some balls into tight windows. Yes, I know he was hurt. But the fact is that we haven't seen him put together a good full season yet in his career. Hopefully this will be the year.

Well its nice to know that you're a Dalton supported. I had guessed otherwise based on your argument. I think theres a lot to like about the kid. I agree with you on AJ Green but not on Jerome Simpson. Jerome Simpsons impact last year was very similar to David Nelsons impact on the Bills. Also I'm not sure what you mean by Fitz's weapons missing time. It doesn't matter if both running backs were good at the same time. Spiller was getting 3 touches a game when Jackson was healthy. Either way, Fitz had a good to great running back start every game last year. And of the top 3 receivers, they missed a total of 3 games (Chandler 2, Nelson 1). Thats the same number of games that the Bengals receivers missed (Gresham 2, Green 1). I agree that Fitz's first half numbers are impressive, but I'm not convinced he can keep up that kind of pace for a whole season. Do you think Fitz will throw for 4000 yds, 30 TDs and 15 INTs with a 66% cmp% next year? I'm not sure I can see him doing that well. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I sure am pulling for him.

Seriously.. I couldn't believe it when I saw that headline.

Well I definitely agree with you there

Well the defense isn't going to throw for 20 TDs.. Also, Dalton did not have the luxury of a running game to lean on like Fitz did. He was also a rookie with no mini camps. Yes the defense will help his win #s but they will not make him a better QB. Brady and Rogers proved you don't need a D to put up monster #s. Haha are you getting into the argument or not?

Weapons: Bills: Top 3 Receivers Stevie Johnson 76 rec, 1004 yds, 7 tds David Nelson 56 rec, 658 yds, 5 tds Scott Chandler 38 rec, 389 yds, 6 tds Top 3 Rushers Fred Jackson 938 rsh yds, 6 tds, 5.5 ypc, 442 rec yds CJ Spiller 561 rsh yds, 4 tds, 5.2 ypc, 269 rec yds Bengals: Top 3 Receivers AJ Green 65 rec, 1057 yds, 7 tds Jerome Simpson 50 rec, 725 yds, 4 tds (the bengals liked him so much they let him walk in free agency) Jermain Gresham 56 rec, 596 yds, 6 tds Top 2 Rushers Cedric Benson 1067 rsh yds, 6 tds, 3.9 ypc, 82 rec yds Bernard Scott 380 rsh yds, 3 tds, 3.4 ypc, 38 rec yds I dont know about you.. but I'd much rather have the bills weapons, especially on the ground. Also you can't discount the fact that CJ came in for Freddy last year and played great as well. I'd take CJ over either Bengal running back any day of the week. Dalton did pretty well for himself despite his RBs averaging under 4 ypc. That's a full point under what Fitz was getting on a consistent basis for the whole season. Fitz In 6 Games: 134 cmp, 202 att, 66% cmp%, 12 TDs, 6 INTs, 246 yards/game Dalton In 16 Games: 300 cmp, 5516 att, 58% cmp%, 20 TDs, 13 INTs, 212 yards/game There are your healthy game stats.

You can take that into account... but he also had 7 years of experience last year and didn't put up better numbers than the rookie.

Well then by your logic you wouldn't trade Fitz for Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, RGIII? Also QBs with bright futures who might not be more productive than Fitz this year? At some point you might have to take a step back in order to move forward when you have a middle of the pack QB. Well we do live in a world where Fitz is 29 and Dalton is 24. Doesn't that play a factor in your decision? Don't we also have to factor in the fact that Dalton was a rookie that had essentially no time to learn his playbook and still put up numbers on par with Fitz? Not to mention the fact that he had less weapons to work with. At least Fitz had a solid run game to work off of.

Wait so Andy Dalton did not win 9 games as a rookie? Actually yes. He did. Its perfectly reasonable to judge a QB by his win%. By saying he doesn't have a cannon and doesn't scramble, you're effectively describing half the quarterbacks in the league. I think you're forgetting that Dalton was a ROOKIE and still put up very good numbers. He had 50 fewer attempts than Fitz and threw 10 fewer INTs. He only threw 4 less TDs. He has a better passer rating than Fitz. Dalton's Stats: 3398 yds, 58% cmp%, 20 TDs, 13 INTs. I'll take that every time out of a rookie. Wanna know what Fitz did as a rookie? 777 yds, 56% cmp%, 4 TDs, 8 INs. Yes, he could easily have a sophmore slump. But Fitz could also easily throw 20 INTs again next year and be out of the league by 2014. You really wouldn't trade Fitz for Dalton right now?

How is Andy Dalton a younger version of Fitz? He has already accomplished more than he has after 1 season! He won 9 games last year as a rookie and can get even better.. I'm not sure how you can say he's a younger version of Fitz when he's starting in year 1. I'm saying they could have drafted a QB and that any of the guys on the list certainly could be better than fitz in the next 2-3 years. I would already trade fitz straight up for Newton, Luck, RGIII, Dalton and probably Ponder and Locker too. They could have taken Dalton and not drafted aaron williams.. not the end of the world.

2010 Jake Locker Christian Ponder Andy Dalton Ryan Mallet 2011 Brandon Weeden Brock Osweiler Russell Wilson Nick Foles Not to mention we could have traded up for Newton, RGIII, Tannehill. Its not like the bills didnt have options.

Well first of all, I do have something against Fitz and I never said otherwise. I said I wasn't a Fitz basher and by that I mean I like the guy and I'm glad he's our QB, I just don't think its realistic to think we can win a superbowl with him. I think he has limitations that will keep him from every winning on the biggest stage, but I'm absolutely rooting for the guy. Every single point I make has circled back to Fitz because I started this thread to talk about Fitz and whether or not he can be an upper echelon QB.. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say there. I agree with all your facts and I think you might just be misinterpreting my intentions. I like Fitz. I like him over our available alternatives. I'd rather start Fitz and be competitive than start Edwards and go 3-13 and hope to get Luck or RGIII. The fact is, its the offseason and there isn't much to talk about before camp opens and after what you just said, I do think we disagree all that much on Ryan Fitzpatrick. How far do you think Fitz can bring the bills?

They both have below average accuracy.. vick is just better at everything else.

Well you'll have to give me a break down of rooting for hometown player rules so I know what I can and can't do

Takeo Spikes.. barely ever misses games.. and that neck just freaks the hell out of me. http://files.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Takeo-Spikes1.jpg

Well lucky for him he can run. I don't really get why people are saying Vick wouldn't be a good fit for this offense. Vick would be a perfect fit in this offense. We already have a great rushing game, he would make ours the best in the league. That would take pressure off of our unproven WR group and allow Gailey to gameplan for another 2 dimensional player. If Chan had a chance to coach Vick, they would be one of the deadliest coach QB combos in the league. Vick is a better quarterback in in almost every category (i'll give fitz the edge in smarts). I'd trade fitz for Vick right now in a heartbeat.

This is a great point. Lets take the last 9 games of last season for Matt Moore: 142 CMP 232 ATT 61.2 CMP% 1791 YDs 15 TDs 5 INTs Those number's look like upper echelon numbers.. but would you really want Matt Moore as your starting QB? Some fans look to the first part of the season feel great about this season. Other fans (myself included) look at the entire season and remain skeptical. I need to see a full season out of Fitz before I can categorize him as a top 15 QB.

Well first of all I'm not a Fitz basher. Is it wrong to be skeptical about a guy until he proves he can bring a team to the playoffs? I would like nothing more than to see Fitz succeed and bring this team to the super bowl... I'm just not sure he has it in him. The point I was trying to make is that I absolutely can blame this team's shortcomings on the lack of quality quarterback play. I can do that because I belive if we had Brady or Rogers or Brees we would be a playoff team every year with the way our team was constructed last year. Upper echelon QBs are constantly in the playoffs because they make their teams that much better. Just because I dont put 100% of my faith behind a guy that has never been to the playoffs.. does that make me a Fitz basher?

I'm not sure why you bothered going through and basically repeating everything I said. I said fred was great and admitted a drop off. I said wood was good and admitted a drop off. I mentioned that Fitz was banged up. Also I completely disagree that Fitz had a lack of faith. He was the only one who was every going to start. He had an absolute guarantee on his position. Who showed a lack of faith? Our defense was last place in the league by any measure.. you who else had awful defenses though? The patriots and the packers. Why were they so successful? A good QB. Why is pointing at the most important position in team sports and blaming him for a losing season foolish?? All I'm saying is I don't think Fitz will ever join that elite group of QBs. I agree that this year will tell us alot about how far he can bring this team. But if we lose another couple starts on offense and go 7-9, I hope people don't start using that as an excuse again.

So we lost a great RB that got replaced by a good RB. We lost a good C and got average replacement play. We lost a great DT who got replaced by an average DT. The only other major "injury" is that our QB was banged up. You dont think any team in NFL history could have overcome that? We weren't even close last year. It would be one thing if we were 9-7 and just missed the playoffs... but losing only a few guys and plummeting to 6-10 means that something else was wrong.

Everyone uses the injury excuse.. for Fitz, Stevie, Fred, Wood, Bell, Jones, Merriman, Easley, Williams. But the truth is, guys get hurt. Players get hurt on every team, every year, no matter how good or bad. The giants lost Boss, Nicks was in and out of games, Bradshaw missed 4 games last year. The packers lost Greg Jennings, Ryan Grant. Some Bills are going to get injured. I guarantee a starter on offense will get hurt at some point this year. You have to be good enough to overcome that.

Hines Ward? Professional.. good sense of humor. I've always liked Hines