Billsrhody

Not saying they were me guys, just that the patriots have taken chances on guys with character issues. Rodney was a notoriously dirty player and was constantly fined and suspended. Dillon was unhappy in Cinci after Johnson started getting the carries and basically talked his way out of town. The coaches probably spoke with Harvin after that interview.. but my point is that he was pretty calm in the interview. Its not like he was whining or losing his cool.

Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison? They've taken those chances since 2003. Here's the interview with Percy. link Doesn't seem like a cry baby or a temper tantrum to me. I also think people mistook what he said about not being in tune with personnel to mean he wasn't studying game film, which he says he is.

I would say a third of the players in the NFL are "me" guys. I wasn't listing those guys because of their legal troubles.. just their questionable characters. I disagree with you on the "patriot way". Albert Hanesworth, Chad Ocho, Randy Moss, Assante Samuel. They always take chances on those guys.

Ben Roethlisberger, Ray Lewis, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, Marvin Harrison. just to name a few. Questionable character guys win championships ever year.

Could be a randy moss in new england type situation.

Maybe he's just never been in a team first environment. Maybe coming to buffalo would complete change how he thinks about the game.

You say its the exact same issue.. then go on to describe how it wasn't violent. So how is it the same? NFL players have ego's. The good ones often have confidence that borders on being cocky. Harvin may be selfish and he may be immature, but I don't want to be friends with the guy, I just want him on my football team because of what he does on the field. Once again, what are you worried about him doing?

I never said everyone makes mistakes when they are young. Once again, you keep pointing to problems he had in his past when he was a teenager. Thats fine, I acknowledge those events. What you don't have, is evidence of the same thing while he has been an adult. You can assume that he still has issues with his temper.. buts thats just what you're doing, assuming. I really don't see how the pattern is there. The last incident he had was at the combine. Since then, neither you or me can point to any issues outside of his recent trade request (which seems to stem from playing time link) So you're saying he cant do anything to change your mind?

Sorry I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.. just asking you to clarify. So are you worried he's going to choke slam chan? I'm not.. I think those issues are in the past.

So because Pacman kept his problems out of the locker room it was ok? I'm not sure what you're trying to point out by saying that.. Pacman is a terrible person and a criminal. Harvin has a history of temper issues. Big difference, wouldn't you say? I don't see how you can assume that his problems have continued because you have no evidence supporting that. The evidence supporting the fact that he has changed is the lack of problems he has had in the NFL. If Harvin going public with a contract concern or a playing time concern is the biggest problem I'll have to deal with, then I'll take him on my team any day. What are you so worried about? What do you think he would do to destroy the locker room in buffalo?

This all when he was a teenager. Lets not pretend we know how Percy Harvin had it growing up. Sure the guy had some issues when he was a kid, but he's 24 now and has been a model citizen for the past 3 years. So he comes out and says he's unhappy in Minnesota. You have no idea why, but you think he's being childish. This from the guy he supposedly "choke slammed": Said Gonzales: "I think it's a little overblown. I mean, every great player wants his voice to be heard." I draw the line at a players actions while he's been in the NFL. Are you telling me that you don't think Harvin can be a good guy, because he screwed up a few times when he was a kid? I dont get that.. Percy Harvin could have a 12 year career with no incidents. You wouldn't want him on your team because of something he did when he was 19? Just to give you an idea of how much worse of a person Packman was... here's 2 sentences out of wikipedia: Jones became enraged when a dancer began taking the money without his permission. He allegedly grabbed her by her hair and slammed her head on the stage. A security guard intervened and scuffled with members of Jones' entourage of half a dozen people. Jones then allegedly threatened the guard's life. Not even Packman has done that? I'd think twice before you compare someone like Harvin to Packman Jones

I guess it just comes down to whether you think his play on the field would outweigh the baggage that comes off of it. I think its a no brainier that it would. The guy isn't Pacman Jones. Also interesting tweet from Harvin: "Fans I said I have issues to be worked out money not at all being the problem...I've dne everything asked and more..." Not sure I believe him, but hey.

I just happen to believe that sometimes kids do stupid things. Doesn't mean he cant change. Besides.. the NFL is about winning football games. He hasn't broken any of the league's rules has he?

No way!

Outperformed him in almost every way??? Hester is the best return man in the history of the NFL. Harvin had 16 attempts last year.. I'll take your bet on over under $8 million a year for Harvin's next contract..

Adrian Peterson? Jared Allen? Harvin is definitely not the best player on that team.. You ignore the fact that Welker is better than Harvin. I'm sure if a GM had a choice between a 24 year old Welker and a 24 year old Harvin, they would take Welker 100% of the time. Even at their current ages, I'm sure some GMs would still rather have Welker. Once again.. if you don't like my comparison to Welker, find someone better. Steve Smith plays exclusively on the outside and has proven himself as one of the best WR in the league. Brandon Marshall is 6'4" and is a ridiculous comparison. If anything, you're arguing that Harvin is a gadget player. If thats what you're arguing.. start here: D. Sproles: 600 rush yards, 700 receiving yards, 1300 return yards, 10 total tds P. Harvin: 350 rush yards, 950 receiving yards, 500 return yards, 9 total tds Sproles has a 4 year, $14 million contract. FYI, you keep touting Harvin as a dynamic return guy, but he only returned 16 kicks last year.

Yes he is 31. Yes he has had major knee surgery. But after that knee surgery: 2010: 86 rec, 848 yds, 7 tds (15 games) 2011: 122 rec, 1569 yds, 9 tds I think we can agree that the knee surgery is a very minor issue. I think we can agree that he will still be productive in his 30s. I agree that contract is outdated and probably isn't the best comparison. But doesn't the fact that the patriots are unwilling to pay him $8 a year this year tell you something about the value of small slot receivers? Do you really think Percy Harvin is going to get a 6 year, $50 million contract? I think he'll sign something more like 5 years, $30 million with $18 million guaranteed. I agree he has had off the field issues in the past. But since the combine he hasn't had any real issues. I don't think smoking pot is really that huge of deal for an NFL player. He's played 15, 14, and 16 games in his 3 seasons. He only missed 1 game due to the migraine issue so it really doesn't seem like a huge problem. He's proven to be pretty durable. Sometimes good players have some off the field problems in their past. It doesn't mean they can't change and it doesn't mean a team can't be successful.

I think you're missing my point. When Welker was 24, he was a similar player to Harvin. He signed a 5 year, $18 million contract. If you can find a better comparison, by all means do it. The way you describe Welker's contract situation leads me to believe that you don't know whats going on with it. The patriots placed the franchise tag on Welker because they were unwilling to sign him to a long term contract that averages over $8 a year. They were unwilling to sign the best slot receiver in history to a contract of that size. What makes you think Harvin will make more than $8 a year? He is surely a slot receiver and surely not as good as Welker. It may be a pipe dream, but hey this is a message board isn't it? If we cant speculate trades here, then where can we?

So you watched every Patriots offensive snap? Welker never lines up outside? Welker - 6,279 career return yards Harvin - 2,609 career return yards How is Welker not relevant on special teams? Just because he didnt do it last year, doesnt mean he didnt do it his whole career.

NFL GMs are always looking to upgrade their team through trades and free agency. Sure the bills have 12 WR's in camp, but that doesn't mean they can't upgrade. Also, I promise Harvin doesn't expect to get paid Larry Fitzgerald money. They're both slot receivers, they both contribute to special teams (Welker was very involved as a return man up until 2 years ago), they're both under 6 feet. To say he's nothing like Welker is foolish.

Thats not how the NFL works. Find me a slot receiver that has gotten paid more than Steve Johnson did this off season. Wes Welker has been one of the best receivers in the NFL over the past 5 years. Guess what his last contract was? 5 years, $18 million. Welker doesn't make the big bucks because he doesnt stretch the field and is under 6 foot. Harvin is in the same boat. Sure the bills have 12 WRs on their roster.. but they only have 1 proven guy (stevie) and 1 decent slot option (nelson). Everyone else is unproven or unlikely to even make the team. You cant pretend that harvin wouldn't be an upgrade over everyone except stevie.

Umenyiora resigned at the beginning of this month. He was very vocal about his contract issues for the 2 years prior and it was definitely a distraction in the locker room. I'm not sure why you're assuming we'd have to pay Harvin more than Stevie. If anything, he would get a lesser deal. He is not a #1 wide out and does not play on the outside. He's a slot guy looking to get off of his rookie contract where he is making peanuts. Obviously Harvin tried the quiet approach and got no where with his negotiations. Fred and Stevie had the benefit of knowing that their contract's were going to be restructured in the off season. Harvin still has 2 more deals left on his. Publicly stating that you're unhappy with your contract is commonplace in the NFL. I'm not sure why you're being so harsh on Harvin. I didn't see anyone criticizing Welker when he publicly complained about his contract situation a month ago.

Why wouldn't he want to come to a place like Buffalo where players get rewarded for their production on the field? Harvin says that he's unhappy and all of the sudden he's a cancerous little growth? Sounds a little harsh to me.. was fred jackson a cancerous growth for wanting a new contract this year? I think its foolish not to consider adding a player who would instantly upgrade one of the weakest positions on the team. I think people are getting a little too caught up in maintaining a "perfect" locker room. You can win championships with contract issues (see osi umenyiora last year).

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8076348/report-percy-harvin-requests-trade-minnesota-vikings He's a dynamic player who lives in the middle of the field. Lets try and get him for a 3rd rounder?

Someone had to say it...