A Dog Named Kelso

Regardless, I am sure the organization did all they could to cast Flutie in a poor light. Also, who could blame him for how he acted, he was basically treated horribly no matter what he did and what he did was win. No matter if Gugny likes how he did it, he still did it, with the same personnel Johnson couldn't do it with. So, he is a "Me" guy probably because no one else was looking out for him.

Yeah No agenda there!

Ha maybe they will be calling Mark Asper to see what he can do.

If you read all the posts there are some who believe EJ would be just as capable, because he has shown some attribute they believe are better than those shown by Orton. What do you consider Offensive Production? That is a point of contention in this thread I think. If we measure it by TDs then we have to remove special teams and short fields provided by the defense, correct? Otherwise the only way to measure production is total yardage that the offense has moved the ball, isn't it? Also, one cannot attribute all the offense to a QB one way or the other and must use the same criteria for whoever is leading the offense. I have seen some who attribute certain plays for one player and then remove the same type of play to another to help prove their point.

Looks like the Panthers found one: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11740004/charles-godfrey-released-carolina-panthers

I say you do all three - play Urbik at LG, play Incognito at RG, and play Hairston at RT(hell he was playing LT before we drafted Glenn) It doesn't have to be Incognito, I find it hard to believe on 31 other teams' practice squads there is not one guard we could sign the might play better than what we have besides Urbik.

Didn't they take quite a few sacks by doing so and thus put them in positions they would not want to be in at any point during the normal course of a game?

And win consistently? And how many times has the team with the least amount of passing yards won in recent years? Its a team game one can not assign all the negative that occur to Orton and then absolve EJ of those same issues. EJ had a running game Orton has not. There are many things EJ can learn for Orton and I believe if he does he will be much better than when he came out. If he is a good as you believe he was plus this new knowledge he would be a great QB going forward.

All they would have to do is look at film. I think the problem is that Marrone had an O-Line philosophy and is not changing it. That is limiting the screens the team can run because this group on O-Line can't shift and move well enough to get there and block their man. Marrone has the same Linemen Sans Levtre and Rhinehart to run the same schemes Gailey did, he chooses not to.

That is an interesting selection. By yards there are several QB in the top ten who have losing records you are not selecting: 2 - Matt Ryan 4 - Drew Brees 6 - Jay Cutler Does that mean they are all bad? OR in those cases it is a team issue? I was agreeing that turnovers are not ideal, but they are not the # 1 thing either.

So a team can go 3 and out all the time as long as you keep the ball secure? I understand that ball security is important but that thought is what held EJ back. He was too afraid of making a mistake that he wouldn't chuck the ball. Mistakes happen its whether the players can overcome them. Yardage indicates offensive movement, while a special number i.e, 300 yards in not the end all be all it does show the ball is being moved through the air.

Except he is not a coach ... he is the offensive coordinator. The coaches for any team are the position coaches ... I do not hear anyone calling out the O-Line coach or the RB coach. It is thier job to make sure the players learn and execute what Hackett has in mind.

I agree I was commenting on BillsFan-4-Ever that he wants to see more points. In other words EJ wasn't providing much of the extra points

EJ gave that to the team when the running game was effective; however, when it is not he is unable to move the ball through air effectively. Also, this is more of an indictment of the coaching, but, from what I recall since Marrone got here, none of the larger margin of victories came from the offensive production they came from ST or defensive help.

Just for the record he is experienced, he has a season and a half as a NFL OC and some time as a College OC. Also, people saying we are not using CJ in screens seem not to understand that the way a screen works, for it to work the offensive line needs to move around and set up the screen. The O-Line can hardly block, they certainly are not shifting to get into space for screens! I am not saying he is good or not but he can not call for the talent he has do what they are not capable of doing, that would truly be a sign of a poor OC.

I believe this is over emphasized, the truth is he was traded only because of a ridiculous situation in Denver. He asked to be released from Denver after the situation again became untenable for him. Had Chicago not valued Cutler so highly(as many teams did) I believe Orton could very well still be with Chicago. Denver needed something after agreeing to McDaniels system. I am not suggesting Orton is a top ten QB, but everyone who treats it like he was forced out of places do to bad play is exaggerating what happened. Orton has been on the losing end of the "the grass is greener" theory every time. Cutler is greener than Orton(trade), Tebow is greener than Orton(experiment), and Cassel is greener than Orton(Injured starter). In reality I think, perhaps, many people would disagree with all of those, but at the time those were the choices made.

As would many Fans

I would say when the game is on the line is the only time EJ is not timid. He seems to know that it is all or nothing and plays as I wish he we would play the whole game.

That might be, but that is not on Orton's play(outside of the fumbles) and that is the point of the thread. There are many factors that need to improve. Coaching, Running and O-line play. People are using different or changing standards instead of a constant or the same standard to measure the production of the QB position, that is the problem. If you say it is the QB's job the pass the ball and get TDs Orton has done and better job, there is no debate about that. Orton in 3 games has the same TD/INT numbers as EJ had in 4. 5/3 and more passing yards per game. Right now the discussion should be how to fix the O-Line/Running Game, not Orton, as he is doing what is needed. His fumbles could be attributed to the poor line play, but I am keeping on him for now. As for EJ, one of his issues(biggest as far as I am concerned) is he risk aversion, Orton shows that he can overcome his mistakes and hopefully this is something EJ can learn. A QB doesn't need to be perfect as long as he can make up for a mistake(s) he may make(s). Thanks PTR, My point too.

"I can't keep the ball in my players hands" <- says Marrone as a reason for such a bad outing.

You should always re-kick!

Rather throw the season out the window than let Mike Williams play.

Me too! talk about a Coach being the issue!

great clock mgt ... go in with 2 timeouts.

I don't think he is getting overrated. He is a capable QB and that is what this team needs at the moment. The problem is that many people only see elite or horrible and disregard anything else. So, because Orton is a capable to good QB many people go out of their way to tear him down. Unfortunately; the same is also true of EJ, because he needs time to develop many think that is impossible and he sucks.