May Day 10

This is not true. Erie County's population has declined about 5% since then, and as an also, Southern Ontario's population has grown. sorry, Ill go away again

Im a STH and Im not going. Im over going to meaningless games after Thanksgiving.

I dont think WNY is and should be considered a market below the NFL. If we say/admit that, they are as good as gone. If we are talking in terms of "maxing" out with full PSLs, Billion Dollar Stadium, and Suites, sure, we are at the bottom of the league. The team can still survive here. New Orleans was the ghetto of the league, it looked like relocation would happen and they couldnt support the team, they became good, and they exploded and are now regarded as one of the best fanbases. I do believe that if the Bills became a relevant team and were in the running for Division Titles, possible home playoff games, etc we would have no trouble selling out the stadium and they would be able to begin raising seat prices. Ill step out of this thread after this post because (as usual) nobody is changing their opinion.

For the reasons I outlined that were ignored, the early 90s provides zero indication of how ticket sales would be today if they fielded a winner. Every one of those games would have sold out the current stadium anyways, with the exception of the Raiders game that was the coldest game in NFL history. "Regionalization" and the Toronto Series are not the same thing. Regionalization happened well before the Toronto series, and those games are a terrible representation of the Bills and NFL (But that has been hashed over too many times in other threads). Winning would improve Regionalizing efforts tenfold over this Series. The Series is only a lump sum cash grab for Mr Wilson (cant blame him), and a dress rehearsal for Toronto to one day move the Bills there (cant blame them). Shouldnt this drive a Bills fan nuts? that the President of the team who is supposed to kiss fans (customers) asses, force us into this discussion about how "worthy" we are in the face of nearly record-breaking futility? The excuses and spin are always provided by the team, but when it comes to the fans, we dont get the same treatment. The mere fact that they have to point to 20 years ago as an example where the fans wont show up to support a winner is pathetic in of itself. And "leaving the area" was perhaps poorly worded on my part. I guess I meant "playing home game(s) out of the area". I did not make that up, and anyone who has heard Brandon speak will back up the fact that these are his talking points. As a STH who is still a fan through all this (face it, anyone still posting here is as legit a fan as they come), it is a punch in the gut each time he does this. My friends who are in the same boat as me feel the same way. Here at TBD seems to be the only place fans take everything the team says at face value as if its gold. All teams/franchises spin to appease fans. Are we really supposed to believe a 94 year old Ralph Wilson was preventing Brandon, Littman, Overdorf, Nix, Whaley, etc from fielding an awesome team, and now Wilson has "stepped away" and given the keys to these guys and suddenly everything is going to be top shelf? There was a time that you could have told me that Buffalo could never sell out The Aud/Marine Midland/HSBC, let alone for 41 games. In the 90s, as we like to cite, even in the LaFontaine/Mogilny year they could only get 13K people there. Like I mentioned earlier, I remember walking up and buying game 6 tickets to a Montreal series as well as a Bruins one. Present day, add in a couple decent teams, followed by a perceived demand for tickets. Waiting list plus they have raised ticket prices quite a bit.

Well I know he said it on December 4th on wgr

It is wrong to say the team needs to leave the area to remain viable after 200 million dollars are handed to them and they haven't delivered in what's going on 2 decades. Every time he does that interview he alludes to that as well as their difficulty to sell out games. Each time he says this, he points to the early 90s, which implies that even if they were good we wouldn't show up. 90's are not relevant Stub hub resales/everybody is a broker Internet insta-sales Regionalization hadn't occurred. Those blackout attendance totals would fill the current stadium and then some. Nfl popularity has gone through the roof Visiting fans are better travelled. Also I recall the sabres ' playoffs of the early 90s we were able to walk up and buy oranges the day of. Post 2000, forget about it. Playoff tickets are gobbled up well in advance now.

I have been beating the same drum for years and expressed fury here on tbd as the "changes" happened last january.

lol. Comparing Brandon's position to that of a janitor or secretary isnt building a straw man? This is just going in circles with me. The bottom line is the discussion is a waste of time until A. The team has a new owner and they move or B. The team has a new owner and they clean house Until then, I just dont see this team getting pulled from the mud. I can kind of see where this is going: 2014 no QB is taken EJ flounders a bit, written off as his true rookie season as he was injured too much in 2013. Maybe some injuries to sweeten the pot. 2015 EJ doesnt improve, team still has 5 wins, EJ and Marrone shipped out, both pinned on Nix. Brandon and Whaley have another chance to start fresh 2016 See 2013 Trust me, I hope Im wrong, and will give credit to Brandon if they turn this around next year. Ive just seen this movie play out too many times. Around the league, teams go up and down quickly. It shouldnt be this difficult.

If they feel very strongly about (say Manziel for instance) and have reservations about Manuel... I hope they nab him in the 1st round. That would be a bold move.

Im good with Murray or Mettenburger in the 3rd if available. That way they can rehab, sit there, learn the NFL, EJ can play and see if he can blossom. If he doesnt, we have a prospect ready to go that isnt a complete newborn

Didnt Nix hire Marrone? He was the GM.

I think you are both right. Brandon goes on his big spiel about how winning at all costs, all resources, etc. Then his first moves are extending the Toronto series (which does sacrifice some degree of competitive edge), and also the Fitzpatrick salary deferment to the 2014 cap.

You dont think more is possible? They used to sell over 80,000 tickets a game. Even the "non-sellouts" were 10,000 more tickets sold than current capacity. And now we have the benefit of all this awesome and successful "regionalism". Your not around here, but when the team has one of their hot starts, my phone blows up with people asking me where to find tickets (Im in a group with STs). I look on stubhub for them and you can find anything <$100. I cant think of a fan base that would perpetually sellout with this many listless consecutive seasons (and looking at who knows how many more)... in any sport. Look at the Redskins. Their attendance is putrid one year after a great season I would kill for (and keep me energized for another decade). Pittsburgh is another one. Nobody is showing up now that they arent front-running. Brandon throwing the failures of his team on the fans is a slap in the face (as a loyal STH). He does not go anywhere out of his way to thank or show appreciation to the fans... at least on a regular basis. We hear more about our inadequacies.

... but only marketing though

Those are the two examples of overzealous, overinvolved, unqualified, over-egotistical owners. There are about 30 teams who have been able to figure it out. The Bills and the Browns for some reason cant. 14 years without making the playoffs in a league where almost 40% of the teams make it is not excusable and is almost a statistical impossibility. Also factor in that they have only been close 1 time, and that was after a terrible start and made possible by playing every bad team in the NFL in succession. All these bad decisions you name, and really no accountability (since Donahoe's firing). The answer is always to fire whatever inadequate head coach is in place, ask whatever curmudgeon they have sitting as the GM to resign, promote Russ Brandon more and shuffle chairs around a bit. Then the result is more false hope and false optimism, followed by more of the same.

He is fine. He has put an unprecedented amount of resources toward growing the franchise in scouting and facilities. They are doing the right thing right now that will pay off. His big error was to trust the guys who were already spinning their tires and stale. As a Sabres fan, I couldnt be happier he is the owner. I also dont need to look over my shoulder anymore worried the team is going to leave. That is a buzz-kill. Just look at the Sabres' crowds during the bankrupcy years when it looked like relocation was imminent.

I disagree with this in general. This team/franchise could be so much more than the sorry state it is in. There is very little effort put into the team, and we are told by them that we, as a region are being "maxed out" which is a slap in the face. I think the people would attend these games with or without Brandon. I would love to see the day that a new, excited, positive owner takes the reins and creates waves through the fan base.

I think he is very involved. He was front and center when they brought Mario Williams in. As mentioned, he was the front-man for the coach/GM "search" back in (2009)? You see him in that draft war room picture. He is right in the middle, and he has plenty of informative materials directly in front of himself. And if you were him, you wouldnt want to live out your dream in that type of role? I know I would.

common denominator. and is the "marketing" side of things really that stellar? The in game "production" is 3rd world compared to other NFL teams. The material played on the Jumbotron is awful and amateurish. People died at a game last season (and you can partially blame the new stadium lot rules for them). The Toronto thing was/is a disaster as far as marketing and spreading the brand. Commercials, shows, general coverage is not very good. In Philadelphia, they would have promos in the newspaper multiple times a week. Player posters, cheerleader posters, etc... very well produced network TV shows at times people watch TV, commercials that get your heart racing, etc. Here its like a wasteland. You can give him credit for training camp in Rochester, but that was bound to happen with any up and coming kid who gets brought on in sports marketing. The rationalization, I would argue, would have happened naturally anyways. Canucks love to come here, shop, and party.

Here is the draft room. Brandon was trying to figure out how many pom poms to get for the opener.

Yeah, wasnt he travelling around, meeting with Shanahan and whatnot? Its obvious that Brandon has been the functioning arm of this team for a long period of time.

Brandon's ascent through the ranks is correlated with the franchise becoming more and more irrelevant. The same people give him "credit" for selling a lot of tickets as poop on the fans for "only" "legitimately" selling out "2" games this season. If I won Mega Millions 3-5 times, and bought the team, you bet Brandon would be out on his ass. I would also be willing to wager he wouldn't sniff anything close to his current position. His tenure here is a joke. This franchise is a joke. If you think he is sitting on the sidelines when it comes to football decisions, you are kidding yourself. Listen to him speak on interviews. He fields questions on personnel without deferring anything to Whaley. Put yourself in his position? Wouldnt you want to work on that side of it? Is this team really marketed well? I have lived in other markets and the Bills' "marketing" is a joke. Unless you count his weekly radio spots where he constantly kicks sand in the faces of the fans in order to justify his Toronto debacle as marketing... Under Brandon, the team fails. Continues to fail, and will fail next year and the year after that.

I have detached from the team, as of about 3 years ago. Now, I can miss games and not care. They lose and I laugh more than get upset about it. They win (in games that matter) I still get pretty happy, but the highs arent as high, because I know it wont amount to anything. Not going to the Dolphins game. I made a pledge 3 years ago as well, that I am dont going to meaningless games.

I dont think Russ Brandon lasts this long (not even considering the yearly promotions) with any other owner in the league, while the team remains in the ditch.

I did like how he paid tribute to the 2 "victims" and painted a real picture of their last hours (as opposed to the typical stories that say they were stopping at the game in between saving kittens from a burning tree and volunteering at the hospital). Laying out what really happened and that these people were no angels (just like us) made it hit home.