Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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The problem with this thinking is, what about the defensive players? They aren't playing with that type of ball, and I don't think there is a rule that a team has to disclose what the QB plays with so that they can practice with that kind of ball. They have to keep it within the realm of a "normal football" one would think.
See this point you made is the problem with this story overall. The impact on the game in relation to ball PSI is no where near the levels being perceived, especially with defensive players.
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Or maybe the minimum should be 12.5 and QBs with smaller hands are at a disadvantage. Why should football be any different than any other sport in having a regulation ball that's uniform for all?
Because the min and max are supposed to be in place for equality...but no 2 players are equal.
huge difference between roughing up a football and taking air out...I'm more upset how less air leads to easier receptions and less fumbles
Im not validating the Pats, I am stating the NFL is why this has happened. Its their loose governing of this rule and lack of accountability for how it checks and maintains the integrity of this rule is a joke.
They have made it worse by how they have handled this. The fact that the biggest story about the biggest game of the year in all of American Professional Sports is about a game played a week ago is a joke. They should have addressed it rather than let the media run wild and make all kinds of absurds false stories up about it to the point we don't know what is true and what isn't true anymore.
Many of the "leaked" facts are now contradicted by new leaked "facts" and reports or public statements by those implicated like Jim Harbaugh and D'Qwell Jackson in the story.
This story is minuscule, had no impact on the game, and could have been handled in a manner that prevented it from it being so massively over blown. We don't even know how many balls, by how much, etc were off. There are stories saying 11 of 12 were 2 PSI off, now stories saying one was 2 PSI off and the others were off nearly as much. Its ridiculous how this has gotten out of hand, and thats the NFLs fault on all levels, starting with the lame process they have with regulating the integrity of the ball.
F the Pats, but man, the NFL and Goodell look really stupid right now...and its a fitting end to the season for the train wreck Goodell has been this year.
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No you can't read.
They have already interviewed over 40. They will I imagine interview 60-80 since they havent interviewed any Patriots player or Bellichick or others yet. I have no idea how many of the 40 were members of the Pats organization, I imagine some. But no players.
You keep contradicting yourself. You said the NFL can't say anything they know or what they are investigating in the media because then the Pats will know. I responded and said how do you expect the Pats not to know when they are being questioned by the NFL. You responded and said that they haven't talked to any of the Pats players yet (something else we don't actually know)...and even if they haven't talked to the players, that doesn't mean that haven't talked to Patriots officials or members of the organization.
You then said verbatim "60-70-80" have been interviewed, something you made up, but said none the less. I then responded with how can that many people be interviewed and not one of them be part to the Pats organization.
Now you reply and say I can't read and now change your response again and now say 40 people have been interviewed, yet in your posts in this thread, you have not typed the number 40 once or spelled it out. In one post you claim a range of 60 to 80 HAVE been interviewed...now you say 40.
You also now admit you don't know if any or how many of those alleged 40 were with the Patriots. Yet its been stated publicly several times that the Pats are fully cooperating with the investigation...so how can that be if no one is talking to them or asking questions? How can someone cooperate and at the same time not participate?
So no offense, but you are just furthering my point about how the NFLs handling has fueled these kinds fact less claims and boasts throughout the media that you are doing yourself.
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I think this will really spell the end of Goodell's tenure. He is a terrible commissioner and when will the owners figure that out? Does he handle anything well? His close ties to Kraft make this a no-win situation for him. Look at how he came down on Payton in New Orleans when he didn't know what was going on and none of that was illegal. How can the NFL not do the same for the Pats? Whoever did it, the organization was responsible for 11 or the 12 balls being altered while none of the Colts were altered.
Yeah, i think Goodell needs to be replaced. The way he tries to rule players with an iron fist every time they show fun or personality compared to how poorly he manages real situations is just absurd.
I am not saying the Pats are innocent here, I am stating that if the PSI is so important then the NFL is very negligent in how it regulates and enforces it, and thats on them. Quite frankly, the truth is the PSI isn't very important and actually the limited range it has equates to not having an equal playing field for each QB. The PSI should be dictated by the QB, not the NFL. Its NOT an advantage if everyone can do it...but it can be a disadvantage to QBs with smaller hands and weaker grips if the PSI is too high just like its a disadvantage to guys like Aaron Rodgers when the PSI isn't high enough because his grip is stronger and his hands bigger.
There should be a min, that basically equates the ball having adequate air to be considered fully inflated which I would guess 10 PSI or 10.5 PSI is plenty. Everything above should be allowed. Its that simple. Again, not an advantage, its about the ball being equally comfortable in all QBs hands no matter size of hand or how hard they grip it.
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They havent interviewed any player yet as far as has been reported. No, the Patriots don't know what the NFL knows.
Wait, so you said the NFL has interviewed "60-70-80" people, and now you want me to believe that not one of them is associated with the Pats? Not one? Exactly how many people are connected the air pressure of a football that you can say 2 posts ago that they interviewed up to 80 people and NONE of them be in the Pats organization? Lol
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Oh, got ya. I always thought the issue with those cases was "intent to distribute". But it does seem legalization elsewhere makes that particular crime and punishment seem ridiculous.
My friend had a legal small grow of 4 plants...they arrested him and took his 1 and 3 year old kids away for 8 days, split them up, and put them into 2 different places in the ghetto that could double as a crack house in a movie. All because he had 4 plants in his garage he was doing research on to develop a new line of nutrients as he is a bio chemist. They never even officially filed the charges, but they tried to claim child abuse and tried to keep his kids longer until he got in front of a judge and the judge got pissed it happened and ordered his kids returned immediately. And he was fully compliant with paper work to back it up.
Funny thing is, the laundry detergent and cleaning supplies of a every day household put kids in harm 24/7...his plants, which don't even produce actual cannabis because they are always in a vegetation state were labeled child abuse even though a kid could eat the entire plant and not even have a bad bowl movement let alone be in danger.
And we live in CA, where its legal to grow and to distribute, even though he didn't do either...he was running experiments on a nutrient line made of organic minerals for cannabis and on tomatoes.
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What laws that send someone to prison don't have victims? Not being facetious here....
I will play...who were Tommy Chongs victims?
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You can't figure out that if they said how many balls and what they were it wouldnt be easier for the Patriots to concoct a story to fit that narrative? That's like prosecutors telling the defense team in a trial all they learned from their interviews. Why do you think they are waiting until the end to speak to Brady? It's obvious.
Wait, are you assuming the Patriots don't know what the NFL knows? LOL, they are part of the investigation...how do you expect the NFL to ask the Patriots questions about something if they don't tell them what they are asking about? lol
No offense, but what you just said makes no senses. And if you want to talk about prosecutors and trials...the defense and prosecutors have a right to know all the evidence each side is submitting, other wise its not submittable. In fact, even when I fought my dog ticket on the beach, I wasnt allowed to challenge the officer in court until we met outside the court room and I allowed him to see everything I was presenting prior to actually presenting it in court. And this was true for everyone challenging a ticket or case. I beat that ticket by the way lol
To my mind, the one new piece of info in that PFT article is another unnamed League source saying other than the picked off ball (which was 2 psi below normal), the others were closer to only 1 psi below normal, which contradicts what other unnamed League sources supposedly said earlier this week.
Personally, I think we need to know:
1. What the initial pressmen psi results were for all 3 sets of balls;
2. what the halftime readings for all 3 sets;
3. What the chain of ball possession was for the bad balls;
4. What the pre-measurement process was for the bad balls--I personally think that part of BB's presser yesterday was not believable. He made it sound like their ball buffing is done immediately prior to testing, which defies both common sense and what TB apparently said earlier this week;
5. What the final readings were for all 3 sets post-game; and
6. Definitive scientific opinion on 4's ability to influence psi count as claimed by the Pats*.
If this truly was a sting operation, I'd expect them to have all the data above other than 3 and 4.
Agreed
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Sorry but the NFL, if they were trying to find out how this really happened would RETARDED if they released any information officially at all about it, because it would do nothing but help the people trying to hide what happened. Furthermore, it's obvious to anyone that there was something very wrong done because they are interviewing 60-70-80 people. They know what happened by now, they want to know how it happened, otherwise it would be over by now.
How would they look retarded if they came out and said what they are investigating? Yes its clear something is being looked into in relation to the balls. But they could very easily come out and state that under inflated ball found during the game launched a probe into the pressure of the balls. During said probe, it was discovered that X amount of balls were X amount under inflated. They could also state whether or not the Indy balls were tested and what those findings were.
Remember, the Indy balls being in the allowable PSI range is meaningless in terms of whether or not their PSI was lower than what it was originally set at. For instance, how do we know that the Indy balls didn't start at the max PSI and then when later tested found to be lower but still in the allowable PSI range? That would show either natural deflation or inconsistency in the process of checking these and then in game tests.
There is a LOT of information not known by the public...and letting the media stew in this is completely deflating the value of the biggest game of the year. Pun intended
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So if Gordon is an "idiot" rather than a guy who needs help...what does that make Orton? He made no secret about partying. What about Bruce Smith who reportedly was a heavy drug user. Its ok for them because they didn't get caught? They aren't idiots too?
Cris Carter could have been called an idiot too...instead he was a guy who couldn't see his problem until rock bottom. He turned his life around...I wouldnt call him an idiot before or after. Same with Josh Hamilton.
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Alphadawg, Bellicheat said yesterday the Patriots gave the balls to the refs and TOLD THE REFS to set the pressure at 12.5.
That shows they do and did test them, and the Pats didn't know this was a special game or anything so that implies that is what they always do.
The problem is Kelly, we don't have any confirmed information or facts from the NFL. We don't actually know what they did or didn't do. We don't know how many were off and by how much officially. We don't know what equipment they used to check it and if they used the same equipment to check it during the game when the balls came into question. Everything we supposedly know comes from leaked reports from unnamed sources.
A LOT of the info that has leaked has already been proven incorrect. D'Qwell already stated he gave the ball over to save it as a souvenir, not because he felt something was wrong with it. Yet every report stated he complained about the ball being under inflated. Jim Harbaugh came out and stated that the Ravens at no point ever had any suspicion or questions about the balls used in the game against the Pats...yet all these reports claim the Ravens also complained about them. So, when all we have are a bunch of anonymous reports and leaks, thats not very accurate information to go on...Again, that falls on the NFL for not allowing this to get blown out of proportion with all these alleged reports, many of which already proving false.
What we do know is that NFL QBs, past and present, have openly admitted to doing all kinds of things to balls, including over inflating them. We also know that all of that is possible because of how poorly the balls are handled by the NFL to prevent such possibilities. We also know that this is going to be pretty hard to prove or disprove given the immense amount of variables allowed to exist because of how loosely the NFL handles regulating this rule. We also know that the balls PSI had literally zero to do with the Pats win, regardless as to why it happened.
What that equates too is that this event, which had no impact on the outcome of the game, is now being made into something bigger than it is all because the NFL has a very poor system for enforcing a rule that apparently wasnt important enough to pay attention to until it became a news story. We also don't have any idea how common this is because balls are not checked during the game and post game unless there is a reason to.
At the end of the day, the balls PSI could be off from negligence by the refs, manipulation by the pats, inconsistent gauges, varied environments, temperature fluctuation, or even something as far fetched as bribed or paid off refs. All of that falls at the feet of the NFL for the weak system in place and how poorly they have handled this in the media.
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I'd trade him for a 7th. That's about it.
good points, and very sorry to hear about your Dad and your situation. But like you, Josh needs to seek the help he needs. He has a ton of $$. He should use the next year to find and get himself into the best treatment center in the world. Josh Hamilton at one point had a terrible time with substance abuse, perhaps Josh should give him a call.
Thanks, its been just over 20 years now and it still drives me today.
The game needs to be taken from him. That means the Browns need to cut him. If any other team signs him they would be doing a disservice to the kid. He needs to have his career taken and have to fight for it back this next year. Suspensions are just him having a time out and waiting to play again. He needs to have nothing to go back to...he needs something to fight for. Mine was easy...I just wanted my dad to look down and be proud, and thats all the motivation I needed. What ever is troubling him, he needs to deal with it and find the strength to fight. Otherwise, it will never change.
And yes, Josh Hamilton and Cris Carter are great examples of this.
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Honestly, this fiasco falls almost entirely on the NFL, not the Pats. F the Pats, but if I remove being biased, then it becomes clear the NFL is almost completely at fault here.
1. First off, there are NO real reports on this. The NFL hasn't confirmed much of anything, most of it are "leaked" reports. No one knows for sure how many balls, how much they varied, etc as nothing has been confirmed from what I can see from the NFL.
2. We have no idea if the Refs even check the PSI with a gauge. Very very possible, that some or many refs have just done the eye ball and squeeze test to make sure balls seem good rather than take the time to check each balls PSI with a gauge. In fact, Aaron Rodgers stating he OVER inflates them to the rules to see if the refs will deflate them strongly suggests that gauges are not always used and that part has been loosely enforced. If a gauge was used every time, Aaron wouldnt waste time over inflating them, not to mention the NFL would have told him to stop already.
3. The NFL doesn't check PSI before, during, and after a game unless there is a cause too. They supposedly check pre game, but even thats come into question just how religiously its checked with a gauge versus just feeling it out. So there is no way to know how common or uncommon it is that a balls PSI has naturally changed or been intentionally changed in every game played.
4. Current and past QBs have admitted to doing all kinds of things to the balls, yet none of that is getting any attention because the NFL wants this to go away.
5. The balls apparently have been checked in conditions with significant variables rather than consistent environments. If the PSI during the game is what matters, then all balls need to be checked on the field of play with game conditions.
6. The process now is for officials to check the balls then give them back to the ball boys and teams. If this is such an issue, why are the balls not checked just prior to kickoff and kept in a visible area that is controlled by the referees? Instead, they give them back to the teams where they can do whatever they want to them prior to game time. They could simply have a bin on each side of the field for each teams footballs isolated and visible until a ball is needed in which its grabbed by a ball boy and immediately given to a ref for play.
7. A range of 1 psi variance is really stupid in the first place. The QB should be able to adjust it as no QBs hands are the same. Some are very big, some are very small...some are strong, some aren't as strong. Grip varies, so there needs to be a wider range of variance to keep the playing field even. A guy like Aaron Rodgers has big strong hands and has an advantage with a higher PSI, he said so himself. So why does a QB with a lower grip strength and smaller hands have to use a stiffer ball that doesn't play to his grip as well? PSI should be set a min like 10.5 and anything above it is fine. Kicking balls should have a stricter factor as it does make a difference on how far you can kick it.
8. How do we know that Pats didn't inflate to the min PSI initially with a gauge that was off? Gauges are off all the time. They may have inflated to the min PSI allowable, but if their gauge was wrong then they are going to be off. And if the refs just squeeze tested, they wouldnt have noticed pre game until they used a gauge to check it after the INT.
Serioulsy, the balls had no impact on that game. In fact, NE played better with Indys balls then their own. Yet here we are with this stupid black cloud over the biggest game of the year. Its been grossly mishandled by the NFL and I suspect the NFL is putting so much energy into this because of a few reasons:
1. They looked so bad about not taking enough action with Ray Rice.
2. They know its their own negligence that has allowed this to take place in the first place.
3. Its the Pats, and the NFL always looks bad and still takes heat for how it handled spygate (another situation over blown because how bad it was handled).
None of this means the Pats did or didn't cheat...it means the NFL has screwed themselves so bad here that I seriously doubt there will ever be enough information to either prove their guilt or innocnence, and that is 100% why the NFL is at fault. If this is such an issue, they should have a significantly better process and system which wouldnt be hard to do at all.
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HUGE congrats on that! (I wish I knew how to bold on my ipad on this site!)
I, unfortunately, know way more about this subject than I ever thought I would (or should). For those who say he's an idiot and deny the tragedy, you don't know what you don't know. I don't want to preach, so I'll just say this is sad that a person who's apparently been using to some degree since the 7th grade has deep issues. The issues come before the addiction. It doesn't make him stupid. He could even be far more intelligent than many of us. Substance abuse has NOTHING to do with intelligence. And it is in fact a tragedy, for him, his team and their fans.
This ^
I had my own battle...after my father was murdered when I was 18, I started hanging around people taking me down a bad path. I wasnt intentionally being destructive, but I had a void to fill and consequences were way down the list of concerns. Fortunately the first time I visited his grave (fathers day 7 months later) since the funeral shook me hard and woke me up. I was ashamed and embarrassed of what I thought he might think of what I had been up to. That snapped me out of it and turned my life around. I never had an addiction to anything...never needed a drink or drugs, but if I was around it I would participate and the people I was around had it most the time. But, if I would have stayed the course I certainly would have developed addictions as I watched those same friends fall to it, many never made it. In fact one of my closest friends back then was last scene living under a bridge and begging for money in drive thrus.
its a fine line between control and losing control. Inner demons wreak havoc on where a person can fall. I can drink and smoke weed and stuff, no problem, always have been. In fact, I rarely do even though I live at the beach in a neighborhood where there is always something going on. Those demons never rooted in me thankfully as seeing my dads picture staring back at me was all the fuel I needed to defeat them and keep my head on straight and be a man.
I feel like a guy thats been failing tests since 7th grade, every year in fact, has some kind of inner demon thats won and he has failed to defeat. Its easy to call him stupid, but unless you have that inner fight its probably something you won't understand. The Browns need to take his career from him, much like Philly did with Cris Carter. He needs to come face to face with something to give him the fuel he needs to beat that demon before he loses for good.
it isn't a choice for him I suspect...until he fixes whats broken inside, he isn't going to be able to be the man he's capable of being. No amount of probation or suspensions is going to do that for him. Probation is a band-aid...until he deals with whats causing him to self destruct, he won't ever stay the course.
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His career is fine if he can fix his demons. Hopefully he understands this and uses this year as a wake up. He needs help, his friends probably aren't his friends. Needs new surroundings.
Said everyone after every violation he's had since the 7th grade...at some point, this statement ceases to exist
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Bucky Brooks has Mariota at 18 on his big board. That's two spots higher than the Eagles draft.
Seems awfully low to me, but last yr QBs went 3 and 22.
Well, if thats the case, then yes I can see it happening...I should have clarified that I still believe that Mariota will go in the top 10, and maybe top 5. I still think he's the first QB off the board unless something happens at the combine to lower his stock. Even if he's the second one, I just don't see him getting out of the top 10, but you never know, guys have slid many times, and even into other rounds. But my belief is that he still goes top 10 at this point.
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well, someone surly isn't letting go. you are approaching epic crusade status and it's probably time for you to step away from the keyboard. If you want to continue this via PM please feel free to do so. If you are asked to stop PMing someone please do so. Thanks.
Epic crusade? I don't get that Beerball...there is 54 pages of arguing by everyone, and I post a few times on the last 2 pages and I am labeled of being on an epic crusade? If you didn't like that one post, then fine, sorry, just voicing my opinion about how it gets out of hand in game of all the ref accusations that flood in around here and conspiracy theories with the Pats. This story is only going to fuel those speculations, and thats the worst part about this story as that it will linger long beyond this because its the Pats and they have a history.
But as far as continuing discussion with anyone using PM on this story...not to worry, I don't care enough about this story to talk more about it. I said my piece about it being over blown and that if they are going to enforce it (even though the refs let them continue with the balls) then they need to enforce on everyone who admitted tampering with balls. No further discussion needed.
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amazing that you can't recognize the significant difference between BEFORE and AFTER inspection point.
sometimes I find myself at an airport with a bottle of liquor that i don't want to check. I'll put it in my carry-on and hope that TSA doesn't see it. But most of the time, they do catch it. That's find, I'll end up checking or tossing. But the one thing I can't do is throw the liquor across the TSA station to my buddy in order to sneak it in. That would get us arrested.
So if the refs don't deflate the ball, then its ok that Rodgers is playing with a ball that is above the allowed limits? What happens then when he throws a pick and a player complains the ball is too hard and they find out its over inflated? Is that the only time it becomes cheating, when he gets caught?
And if thats the case, then why aren't the refs to blame in the Pats case because they allowed them to play with the same balls after halftime?
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No way this happens as it will just be too expensive.
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He doesn't, in a direct quote. Apparently he said something like that to Phil Simms and Simms said it on the air and now that's fact, according to some.
So fine Green Bay too.
There is that better?
Except that Rodgers confirmed it on the Radio...you left that part out.
And yes, that is better...if you fine NE you have to investigate and penalize all the other QBs acknowledging the same thing.
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So Aaron Rodgers and Packers knowingly give over inflated balls to refs for inspection. Refs let out air and ball is certified. Packers use properly inflated balls during game
Pats* give properly inflated balls to refs for inspection, balls are certified, and then Pats* let air out below legal limit. Patriots use improperly inflated balls during game.
You seriously don't see the difference there? I'll give you a hint, if the Pats* did what Rodgers did and tried to sneak under inflated balls past inspection and they get through, then that's on the league/refs not the Pats*
And what happens if the refs don't deflate them? He gets to play with them.
Do you think he would really continuously do this if it never worked? Are you that gullible?
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Great and every team was tapping defensive signals, right? Except the Pats* were the only team to get caught. The NFL has is out to get the Pats*, right?
Actually, yes...lots of teams did this. Teams have been trying to steal teams signals too, even employing lip readers with binoculars to read the coaches lips in game. Thats why coaches today cover their face when talking.
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Uhhh that's Phil Simms supposedly quoting what Aaron said to him. It's not a direct quote from Rodgers. But thanks for playing.
He did say this.. And it's a direct quote:
"The majority of the time, they take air out of the football. I think that, for me, is a disadvantage."
And this story is being discussed every where... Are you my seeing that? It's on the freaking nightly news. It's on national radio.
It has nothing to do with me being a Bills fan stop projecting that on everyone.
More direct news...he CONFIRMED what Simms said...just because Simms broke it as he interviewed Rodgers, doesn't mean he didn't say it and even confirmed it.
On his weekly radio show with ESPN Milwaukee, Rodgers confirmed that he prefers the balls to be overinflated, and that he doesn’t think there should be a maximum air pressure.
“It’s not an advantage when you have a football that’s inflated more than average air pressure. We’re not kicking these footballs,” Rodgers said, via Rob Demovsky of ESPN.com.
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Uhhh that's Phil Simms supposedly quoting what Aaron said to him. It's not a direct quote from Rodgers. But thanks for playing.
He did say this.. And it's a direct quote:
"The majority of the time, they take air out of the football. I think that, for me, is a disadvantage."
And this story is being discussed every where... Are you my seeing that? It's on the freaking nightly news. It's on national radio.
It has nothing to do with me being a Bills fan stop projecting that on everyone.
Its being discussed ONLY because its the Pats leading into the SuperBowl, not because it actually mattered in the Pats being in the SB. I promise you there isn't a team in the NFL who doesn't have a history of QBs who do this...period.
NFL Sting operation goes bad and backfires on the Goodell
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
yup agreed