[Dolphins trade Jalen Ramsey/Jonnu Smith to Steelers for Minkah Fitzpatrick, picks, per Ian Rap.]

 

[A sincere thank you]

💯 - but also...

 

 

[Who is the worst franchise QB in the NFL?]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

He was arguably a top 5 QB last year. 
 

2 years ago he was almost out of the league.

 

like I said, opinion noted lol.

lol now you are just getting silly.  All good, to each their own

[Who is the worst franchise QB in the NFL?]

29 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Really not sure that’s true but that’s okay, opinion noted. 

 

Is it really an opinion though?  I mean the facts are pretty clear.
 

Bakers QB rankings in the NFL last year were:  

• 3rd in yards
• 2nd in TDs
• 7th in avg yards per pass
• 4th in QBR
• 3rd in comp %

I think its more than just an opinion that he should not be in consideration for the last of the franchise guys.  He was arguably a top 5 QB in the NFL last year.  

 

Like I said, there are guys who you listed worthy of consideration and open for debate for the dubious "last of the franchise guys"...but Baker right now is not one of them.  

[Who is the worst franchise QB in the NFL?]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Someone may not think Tua/Purdy/Lawrence/Geno or Kyler are franchise QBs.

 

For some the list may be 20 or for some the list may be 12.

 

I get that, my point remains, Baker has no place in this conversation.  There is no reality where he is a contender for the "last of the franchise" QB's right now, he is clearly in a tier above all of those guys and firmly in that 2nd tier behind the top dogs.  And as I said, while Purdy is less cut and dry, I don't think he does either.  

[Antonio Brown files bankruptcy. Earned over $100Million]

21 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

How does anyone spend $100 MM in 15 years? 

 

To be fair - after agents, managers, taxes and hookers its probably more like $40m lol

[Brandon Beane "might be the most sensitive GM in the entire NFL"?]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wasn't suggesting there was direct leaking. But I am pretty sure McDermott and Beane talked between McDermott arriving here and Beane joining post draft. And I think common weaknesses in the rosters would have been part of those conversations. 

 

Again.... not "hey Sean we are taking a receiver and a tackle with guard flex on day two". 

 

I think Sean McDermott was politicking for Brandon Beane to get this job pretty much the moment he arrived. And I think Beane knew that too. And as such they talked about team needs. 

 

Thats a fair assumption, but a lot of people think we made moves directly because of information given by Beane, and I just don't think that has any validity to it. 

 

McD already knew the Panthers needs before he was hired as HC, he definitely didn't need insight from Beane to know they might have interest in those positions.  So the fact we traded up I think had nothing to do with Beane's eventual hire here and everything to do with McD already knowing the Panthers inside and out, Bills team scouting the whole year on who we wanted and what other teams besides just the Panthers might have interest as well, etc.  

 

I really don't think anything more than that occurred.  We will never know for sure, but the likelihood anything from Beane influenced the Bills draft day decisions seems pretty low given McD would have known that info on his own having just come from the Panthers.  

[Who is the worst franchise QB in the NFL?]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

IMO, some of the contenders are:

 

Geno

Purdy

Tua

Baker

Lawrence

 

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What list?

 

Does anyone understand the question lol

 

Your list - the list you wrote in your OP.  You started with a list of 5 QB's who were "contenders" as you said in your opinion for the "last" - aka worst - of the franchise QB's.   I like the question, but the inclusion of Baker as a contender is where I am saying he has no business being a part of this discussion.  He is a tier 2 QB behind tier 1 of Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, and Lamar.  

 

He is easily a top 10 overall NFL QB right now, and can be argued anywhere from 5th to 8th overall QB in the NFL right now.  I would have him at 6 or 7 overall at QB personally and no lower than 8th.  He is in a higher tier that players like Tua, Lawerence, etc.

 

I also don't think Purdy should have been mentioned either, as someone who has watched every game he has played I can say I think he is better than a lot of people want to give him credit for.  

[Brandon Beane "might be the most sensitive GM in the entire NFL"?]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No and I don't think he was "running the Bills draft from Charlotte" but do I think he was tight with McDermott and had an inclin what was coming? Yes. 

 

Twice in round 2 the Bills jumped above the Panthers in trade ups and took the exact same position as the Panthers took after (4 picks after once and the right next pick the other time). Do I think Beane was saying "take Zay and Dion"... no. Do I think it is reasonable to assume McD had some inside info as to the positions the Panthers were interested in? Yes.

 

That really isn't evidence that he had inside information coming in from Beane though.  I mean every draft every team has an idea of who other teams might be targeting position wise.  Teams spend the whole calendar year scouting players and scouts, GM's etc see each other at the same places looking at the same guys.  

 

More importantly, McD just left the Panthers, so of course he was very aware of where they needed to upgrade and what their priorities were when he left as the team had been scouting all year long even prior to him leaving where the coaches weigh in as well.  We didn't need inside info after he left to think we may need to get ahead of them for positions we already knew they (or anyone else) may be interested in.

 

And quite frankly, that doesn't at all sound like something inside Beane's character to where he might leak insight to McD before he left the Panthers, especially before he knew he was getting the job.  

 

So this belief some people have that McD was getting tipped info from Beane, or anyone else, who the Panthers draft targets during the draft just seems more like a conspiracy theory than a plausible occurence.

[Who is the worst franchise QB in the NFL?]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

The point of the conversation is that the last guy is supposed to be legit and a franchise QB.

 

Baker still has no business on this list, hes easily top 10 and I have him 7th overall right now.  

[Who is the worst franchise QB in the NFL?]

49 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I always find this discussion really interesting. Most fans of the NFL agree with their top 5-10 QB's, in varying orders.

 

We also all agree largely on the guys who stink or are just unknown.

 

But who is the new Andy Dalton or Derek Carr in the NFL?  The guy who is the "last' of the franchise QBs.

 

IMO, some of the contenders are:

 

Geno

Purdy

Tua

Baker

Lawrence

 

Baker has no business being on this list IMO.  Baker is definitely a top 10 QB right now, and I don't think its really disputable at this point based on how he played last year.  Purdy is better than this too

[Diggs vs Shakir 2025]

If healthy - Diggs probably gets 20-30% more targets as he has less competition for targets and Maye will probably lean on him, as he should.  But I think Shakir is going to be more efficient and be more important to his team this season.  I think their season totals in terms of receptions and yards end up somewhat close, but based on target volume Diggs probably edges him out.  But I expect Shakir to be more efficient, more clutch, and make more significant plays while likely leading in things like YAC, catch %, YPC, etc.  

 

I do think Diggs still has a good season left in him if he truly isn't hampered by the injury and doesn't let Pats likely not contending for much kill his enthusiasm.  

 

But I would without question take Shakir over Diggs on my team for this season.  

[Bills TE's are no-shows at TE University.......]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

The article also said Josh Allen might show up to throw, but states Knox and Kincaid are likely to not be there.

 

Obviously, this isn't earth shattering or important, just a surprise that they are not attending:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/bills-players-tight-end-university-114532303.html

 

Knox has been many times and Kincaid was there last 2 years.  Kincaid's focus is getting stronger, be healthy, etc so I am sure that is playing a big part in that and I think its probably best he doesn't go right now while he is working on strength and being at his best physically this year.  Kincaid has put a ton of work in this offseason too already according to Beane, so probably best he stays fresh as he can be for camp.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The point was that McDermott and Pegula’s relationship is NOTHING like Payton and Benson. He did tons wrong (pill scandal, other drugs, bounty gate, has a child with a Saints cheerleader). Payton was bulletproof because of his relationship with ownership. 
 

I’m not arguing for Stefanski. I’d argue for Tomlin. He has a Super Bowl and has never had a losing season!! I don’t love his style but he’s a HOF coach. I said McDermott is like Purdy. Someone else said Dak. That’s good by me. He’s a borderline top 10 guy. He’s not bad. He has been BAD in the biggest moments which is why he doesn’t belong higher on the list. 

 

If people don't like McD's in game management, clock management, etc they will hate Tomlins.  I get he got the SB, which is great for any HC.  But if I had to win a game today, I would rather have McD than Tomlin.  Tomlin is like a long marriage where you may not fight a lot, but you also don't sleep together much anymore and its content, but boring.  

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

In terms of the 2nd Super Bowl, there is no call, EVER, even close to the Robey-Coleman PI. They kick a 30 yard FG as the clock expires. That wasn’t a hypothetical or a close call. Google, “what’s the worst missed call in NFL History” and see what comes up. If they make that 30 yarder (or whatever it was) they’re in the Super Bowl. They would have been playing a not so good Pats team. That game was awful. Payton’s team would have showed up.

 

I agree with you on the call no doubt, I wasn't arguing the call wasn't bad...I was saying the call doesn't mean they go on to win the SB without it.

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Where we disagree is that I think pretty much any average coach could have achieved what McDermott has with Josh Allen. Lots and lots of guys could have won the divisions that he’s won and the playoff games that he’s won. He has yet to win the big one and he’s had lots of chances. He’s 0-5 vs. KC & Cincy in the playoffs. His defense has been nonexistent. He’s a defensive coach!! You can’t be bad in big games and be considered good. Look at the way people trash Dak and Herbert and Lamar for their playoff performances. That’s McDermott. That’s not Sean Payton.

He’s 9-9 in the playoffs. He SHOULD be at least 10-10 or 11-9 with 2 championships. That’s better than 7-7 with no Super Bowl appearances. 

 

Im no McD apologist, so I get it and he needs to win the big one, and his seat should be warm now heading into this season.  But I do think you are greatly minimizing his impact here though and giving too much credit to Allen.  He took a team with no culture that no one wanted to play for outside Buffalo in the midst of being torn down that traded its best players and snapped a 17 year drought that much more talented teams and more experienced HC's could not do.  And people always talk about how Bengals had to help us get in, but the reality was them giving Peterman a chance to see if he had anything to offer a team looking to rebuild against the lowly Chargers kept them from getting in on their own accord.  His coaching job that year was much better than he gets credit for by some people around here.  

 

And then he and his staff took the rawest QB in the draft and developed him into someone with GOAT potential by end of his career.  

 

I also think you are overlooking a lot of Seans poor playoff track record as well.  I get it to a degree, he deserves more credibility too as someone who has won the big game, but outside the one SB run, his playoffs record isn't stellar and he didn't have Reid and Mahomes standing in his way to blame for it, or anything close to what that tandem is as a threat that McD and the rest of the AFC face year after year.  

 

Its all good - this is all subjective, so just take my commentary as a discussion and nothing more.  To be clear, I give Sean the nod now - but I am not so sure I will if McD wins the SB this year and has the better resume.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I agree somewhat but, the Saints won in 2009 (Katrina was in 2006) and they never missed the playoffs with Brees after drafting Kamara (the 2017 Saints draft is like an All-Time class though, probably one of the best in their franchise history).

 

39 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They didn’t go to the Super Bowl after Katrina. They went to the NFC Championship and lost to the Bears. He won the Super Bowl after 2009. They would have won again if not for the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole). 

 

The 2009 season was absolutely fueled by the Katrina energy.  It was the first season they reopened the Superdome and it was a big emotional season on the backs of hope and rebuilding.  It was a major part of their story that year, especially in the playoffs where they were playing to win the first SB in team history at a time the region was rebuilding.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

It's honestly not that bad of a list. I'd probably slide Payton down to 7th and bump the guys currently ranked 3-7 up 1 spot. 

 

The 9 and 10 spots are also up for grabs. Campbell is pretty shaky only having 2 good seasons, and Stefanski is even worse. 

 

I'd consider Mcdermott, O'Connell, or Lafleur in those spots. 

 

Campbell should either not be on the list or be on there but below McD.  I love Campbell, but make not mistake about it - he has cost them playoff losses and key losses in regular season over his stubborn decisions.  What he did vs the Cowboys with the #1 seed on the line is one of the single stupidest decisions I have ever seen in a HC.  He also had bad end game decisions against the Bills and in the playoffs too that led to losses.  I love his attitude, approach, brovado - but there is a time and place for it, and his in ability to control that and find that balance has cost the Lions seeding and playoff exits.  

 

That being said, if he can learn from that, he is on his way to being a great HC - like I said I am a fan of his though, just its not quite polished as it needs to have been yet.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Let’s play a game. Who is more likely to beat the Chiefs in 2025 and win the Super Bowl with the Bills roster?

 

McDermott or Payton?

 

I will play - McD - No other HC has more wins against Cheifs than McD.  Paytons defenses have been worse than McD's and his playoff record and let downs are worse than McD's.

 

So I will take McD over Sean to beat KC - and quite honestly, I think we will if we see them in the playoffs this year, but the team that concerns me more this season though is the Ravens.  They are in tact and had a strong draft.  They will be very tough again and our ability to get past them will come down to how defense improves between our FA and Rookie additions.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I was in New Orleans for the Payton years. I know those teams better than most. The thought that Sean Payton would have been fired back then is BEYOND absurd if you understood the dynamics of the ownership/leadership of the Saints/Pelicans. Loomis/Lauscha/Payton were/are Gail’s entire leadership team. They are way closer to family than to employees. They didn’t fire him when his wife left him and moved to Dallas. He commuted to New Orleans after he knocked up the cheerleader. Payton isn’t a good guy but he is miles better as a football coach than McDermott. That’s why he’s 2 on this list and McDermott isn’t in the top 10. Payton elevates the talent on his teams. Those Saints teams weren’t as talented as some are making them out to be. 

Where did I say he should have been fired?  I said without a SB win that missing the playoffs 3 straight years also following being suspended a season is not something many coaches survive WITHOUT the SB win on the resume.  
 

McD's record is better by most measures except the SB win - yet there is no way McD survives getting suspended a season and then missing playoffs 3 straight years with McD.  

 

And to say he is miles better because of some list is silly.  There is no way Tomlin and Stefanski are better HC's than McD and yet they are on this list for example.  These lists are not in anyway proof of anything other than a list one person made and published.  

 

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They didn’t go to the Super Bowl after Katrina. They went to the NFC Championship and lost to the Bears. He won the Super Bowl after 2009. They would have won again if not for the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole). 

 

So you are giving Sean credit for a 2nd SB win, in which he didn't even reach, because he got a bad call in the playoffs?  So why are you not giving McD a theoretical SB win then after the Refs stole the game this year first not giving Kincaid the first down on 2nd down when he was nearly a yard past the FD marker and then again not giving Josh the first on 4th down when he was clearly there?  That was at least an 11 point, maybe a 15 point swing in the 4th quarter of a game we were up 1 with.  Chiefs got the ball back and scored plus a 2 point conversion to go up 7 when we should have had the first (twice) and were already in FG range and yet would have had a first and still a chance to score a TD as well.  

 

So sorry - to say Sean would have had another is 100% hyperbole as they not only didn't win the game they were in, you don't know if they would even win the next game or not.  And given they were in a game where 1 call could swing it shows they were not so dominant that you can just give them a "gimme" on any other games after that.  

 

I get you are a Sean fan, nothing wrong with that.  But I don't agree there is this massive gap between Sean and McD, and again, if McD wins a SB, his resume will be better than Seans by most metrics, and will have done it with less to work with around Allen.  You spend every offseason criticizing the weapons around Allen, meanwhile Brees had Colston, Graham, Kamara, Thomas, etc and they still won single digits 7 times, had plenty of bad playoff exits, and missed the playoffs 6 times.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I agree somewhat but, the Saints won in 2009 (Katrina was in 2006) and they never missed the playoffs with Brees after drafting Kamara (the 2017 Saints draft is like an All-Time class though, probably one of the best in their franchise history).

 

Dont get me wrong, I still think hes a very good coach, just more talking about how a SB win masks a lot of other things that wouldn't be so overlooked without the SB win.  And nothing I am presenting is to take away from his SB win either, just more pointing out how different things look once you win one.  Most coaches don't survive either the suspension or the 3 years straight missing the playoffs with a QB like Brees - unless they have that SB check mark on their resume.  And a lot of coaches also wouldn't survive the poor playoff record outside the SB season either with prime Brees, Kamara, etc either.  

 

So, I think he is just being over valued here a little bit due to the one major achievement in one of his 15 seasons as the Saints HC.  And as I said before too, if McD wins one say this season, all of his metrics as a HC will be better than Seans - the thing he lacks is the one ring.  And don't get me wrong, that is a BIG lack, so McD has to go get that done and if he doesn't this season, then consideration for a change will be warranted.  

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If Sean Payton were here since 2017, do you agree that they’d have at least 1 Super Bowl? He would have been to Allen what Reid is to Mahomes.

 

No.  Is it possible?  Sure - is it assured, not at all.  

 

The only year Sean won a SB or even reached one was when the Saints were riding an emotional high from the Katrina disaster and their defense was actually making plays.  Outside that, he struggled to even consistently make the playoffs with Prime Brees, Kamara, Graham, Thomas, Colston, and a load of other offensive firepower and talent through the years.  The amount of high end or elite weapons Payton had compared to the Bills is a wide gap, and yet Sean and all his offensive genius missed the playoffs several times or got bounced early.

 

Sean missed the playoffs 6 times with Brees in his 15 seasons there (16 but he was suspended 1 in 2012).  

In half the seasons in NO that he coached (not counting the 2012 suspended season) he won single digit games of 9 or less.  

He missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons with prime Brees.

 

Again, the bulk of Seans time there included an all time Great in Brees in his prime and a lot of elite weapons around him yet the results were not always stellar and even in their best seasons were losing in the first or 2nd round, including winning 11 games and losing in the first round to Seattle who got in with a losing record with only 7 wins.  

 

So he isn't the fix it all savior I think some see him as.  If it wasn't for the one SB win, his overall record would be much less impressive and quite honestly, he probably wouldn't have kept his job after 2012 suspension and would have also probably been fired sometime during the stretch where he missed the playoffs 3 straight years with prime Brees.  Imagine McD missing the playoffs 3 straight years with Allen.  

 

 

 

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Do you believe that Sean McDermott is a better head coach than Sean Payton? If so, we STRONGLY disagree. Payton has a Super Bowl and would have 2 without the worst call in NFL History. He changed the momentum of the Super Bowl with a surprise onside kick. He went to Denver with a bottom 10 roster and went to the playoffs. Sean Payton is a way better coach than Sean McDermott. 

 

I am not here to say who is better or not between Payton and McD - that is subjective.  But I will say using "way better" is an exaggeration.  While Sean is a great coach in general, lets not also forget he and the Saints struggled to even consistently make the playoffs in NO with prime Brees, he had a lot of things that became critical of him while he was in NO as well.  He is a prime example of how a SB ring can mask a lot of things and make people forget a lot of things. 

 

Would I put McD ahead of him - no, at least not yet, but I also don't think its fair to say Sean is "way better" either.  If McD wins a SB this year, his body of work, win %, and track record will all be better than Sean's.

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

2 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

When McD, in Houston game last year, had Allen throwing 3 passes out of his own end zone at end of game, allowing Houston to win game with field goal, Mike Greenberg commented “It may not be the worst decision made this season, but it will be the dumbest” I agreed. McD then went on to make the WORST decision of the season, 2nd & goal with less than 50 seconds, calling a timeout which insured that the Bills had to recover an onside kickoff  for a chance to tie or win game. Tom Brady, calling the game immediately said you just can’t do that. Eight years as head coach with a history of head scratching decisions- makes the dumbest and the worst decision(s) of the 2024 season, and we are wondering why he is not a top ten HC? 

 

You do know that Allen made some of those bad decisions in the final drive of the Houston game and its why McD was pissed on the sidelines right?

[McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.]

McD is not only better than several coaches on that list, but if him and those coaches he’s clearly better than were fired tomorrow, McD would be hired first.  
 

He should be around 6-8 on that list depending on one’s perspective, and a SB win moved him easily into the top 5.  

[Name a random Bills player and one thing you remember about them]

Kolb’s career ending slipping on a mat before ever playing a snap for Bills.  
 

Honorable mention:  Duke Williams game winning TD catch and the false hope of future contribution it created lol

[What Are You Most Excited About This Coming Season?]

Im excited to see the new additions in this defense and I am excited to see what year 2 in the Brady led offense will look like.  

 

Really interested in seeing our draft class and also Cole and what they can do this year.  And also very interested in seeing Keon and his development.  And as someone who wanted to add Moore when he was in the draft and then a Jet, also excited to see if he can be earn the playing time to make an impact.