Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
But we don't know that KC liked all those guys. We now know that Beane didn't like Legette or Worthy. So why presume KC liked everyone? I'm not saying the Bills had the power to stop KC drafting good players. Clearly we don't. I just as a matter of principle while they are our main competitor am not super pleased about helping them. I accept it helped us re-stock our day 2 cupboard. That's a plus. But overall the risk that you help them draft a difference maker isn't worth the value back IMO. And as @NoSaint says if it works out in the worst possible way for the Bills it will put major pressure on Beane.
I agree it will put pressure on Beane if Worthy works. But not because it should, because the media and public don’t understand the reality of this trade and how little difference it made, if any, in KC getting help at WR and likely getting the same player even. -
Nice work on this and it’s what I thought coming in after Beanes presser a week ago where I wrote it was more likely we trade back at 28.
I think Beane is a great spot here to trade down again if he gets an offer he feels good about, so it will be interesting to see if he stays put or adds more ammo this year or next.
Picking here has lots of options for Beane too outside WR. So if he doesnt go WR I gotta think he’s gonna use some of those remaining 10 picks to aggressively move up for someone like Franklin, Mitchell, McConkey, etc.
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8 hours ago, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:
The bills only traded back because they thought their guy would be available at 2.01.
That tells me they want to take a guy that most people didn't mock in the first round. So who could that be ?
Is it possible the bills loved a guy like Ricky Pearsall, and thought no way someone would take him in the first?
What if the bills shot themselves in the foot?
Unless the bills trade down again, why risk losing out on your guy just to gain a better draft position in round 3?
Bills did NOT trade back with the notion there was only one guy they wanted. You don’t go back 4 spots if there is a risk of losing the one guy you want in this range.
So sorry, but this thread is a waste of time.
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11 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:
I feel like between rapp and edwards - they should already be considered depth. Bringing in a Simmons or Jackson is an immediate upgrade. Hell, i feel like Hyde is better than both of them.
I actually think there is a solid chance Hyde comes back for one more season once Tre’s money is off the books. Beane has even alluded to this as has Hyde where it seems to be coming down to Hyde and his medical risks he’s getting opinions on. -
6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
What if one of the other teams calling wanted Worthy? It isn't definitely the case that the only way to keep him from KC was to pick him. And I'm not even that fussed by Worthy particularly. I think he is another WR2 and KC has Rice and Hollywood already that I think fit that criteria (Rice maybe a lower end #1 I suppose, let's see). It isn't about the outcome so much as the process to me. My principle is I'm not doing anything I think might help KC.
But we didn’t “help” KC. We reduced their drafting power and took away a pick they need as they have a lot of other holes so they can get a WR who wasn’t even the scariest option for them with at least 5 other WRs they could have taken 4 picks later, including likely the one they drafted. And in doing so, we helped us with more draft ammo to try and improve our team to get past them.This notion we helped them is just not accurate in this specific trade scenario IMHO. And it should be your opinion too given you don’t think Worthy was the best choice and they lost a 3rd in taking him.
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3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I think SF was taking Worthy
I mean it’s possible, but I honestly don’t, from what I hear is that they loved Pearsall. Worthy does not at all fit Lynch style of player. I kept telling people after the combine not to sleep on Pearsall, he had one of the best combines of any WR. He is much more the type of player SF looks for compared to Worthy. -
1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:
And we KNOW Beane had other calls. Do we KNOW that those teams were calling because they wanted Worthy? No. But the Chiefs was not the only offer. I don't buy the "the only way to keep him out of the Chiefs grasp was to pick him" narrative as though it is fact. It may well be the case but we don't know that.
Legette is your 4th WR on your board. My criticism is he has a lot to work on to succeed as a WR1 at next level and felt better taking him round 2.However, even I would say Legette in KC is a LOT scarier than Worthy who is no where near the same type of player Hill is as people are making it out to be.
If there was a place that I felt Legette could reach his potential it’s KC. And him at his potential is a nightmare scenario.
So if KC misses on Worthy what’s stopping them from taking someone way scarier in Legette?
And man, do I feel bad for Legette. Carolina was a terrible spot for him and I think it decreases his chances of reaching his potential. But him in KC would have been worse than Worthy by a lot IMHO.
And quite frankly so would have McConkey, Mitchell and Franklin.
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1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:
I am certianly not saying take a guy just to keep another team from getting him. But the same as teams generally don't trade in division I would try not to trade with KC.
I get that, but each trade is in a vacuum with individual circumstances. And in this case, the correct move was to strip KC of a 3rd as there was nothing Bills could to keep KC from getting a top WR prospect with top end speed and more than likely they still get the same player anyway.
If Bills were picking 12th and we gave KC a shot at an elite prospect that was head and shoulders above the other ones on the board, then yes, don’t do that trade.
But in this case, taking away their 3rd was a win for us in every way you can analyze the trade.
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3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:
Agreed. I honestly think there are a few safeties who would beat out Edwards or Rapp.
Yeah, there are several that would at least compete to start year 1. And if they wanted to lean on the Vets more and let one of them learn they at least bring much needed depth as we have no one behind those 2 that would be good options if one went down. -
50 minutes ago, BananaB said:
Don’t we have two safeties with starting experience on the roster? Its not a difficult position to find capable players. Jmo. Bills need is at WR and if they keep moving back at some point they will regret it. Can’t keep neglecting this position
Safety has been a vital part of McDs defense. So while we do have 2 guys who could start, they are making anyone shake in their boots either and are a downgrade to what we had for the past 6 years.-
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58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
They could. Equally someone else could have traded into #28 (we know the Bills had other calls - Beane told us so) and other teams could have called Dallas, Baltimore, San Fran as well had Worthy still been there.
I think it is more likely than not that they'd have got him anyway. But it isn't a complete given. And I do think there is a principle question about whether you should ever be in the market to help them. Put it this way, if he ends up a stud in KC l this trade will put some pressure on Beane.
I don't mind the outcome, because I am sceptical about Worthy as a #1 receiver. But I think there are legit questions about whether as a point of principle it is the right process.
I get what you are saying…but…What is the alternative though? The only way to block KC from getting him is to take him ourselves. So should Bills have taken a guy they didn’t want to block KC from getting him? And let’s say we did, or we took someone else or traded with someone else and KC missed out on Worthy? The result would have been Legette sitting there for KC or even Mitchell or Franklin too…all IMHO better WR prospects in the first place who all have top end speed themselves. Not to mention McConkey who everyone was terrified of KC getting a week ago.
I just think that anyone thinking we needed to play defense there with the plethora of WRs still on the board is being unrealistic.
At least by trading, we took away their 3rd round pick which in itself weakens them as they still need help pretty badly at CB, OL, etc. And that 3rd we took becomes a valuable piece for us where Beane has been maybe the best GM in the NFL since becoming GM on drafting in the mid rounds or using those picks to maneuver to get what he wants.
All in all, there was zero Beane could do to keep KC from landing speed at WR at pick 32, whether it was Worthy or not. At least Worthy isn’t strong, meaning in the cold playoff games in bad weather his best attributes will be easier neutralized too.
So this was best case scenario, for us to take away their 3rd for our use as they were getting a fast WR regardless in 4 picks.
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15 minutes ago, SWATeam said:
Anyone think one of these two wrestling centers- Powers-Johnson and Frazier- might be in play?
I think it's interior OL, DeJean, or another trade back.
Don't forget about Newton too...he could be an option here as well. But I do agree, I think if I had to guess who is BPA right now at this pick on Beane's board it is probably not a WR given the players who are still on the board. Maybe Mitchell, McConkey, or Franklin could be, or at least close...just the value on a couple of these other guys seems pretty high right now.
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2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:
I tried to warn people years ago about Beane. No one wanted to listen. Where would this team be if Cleve takes Allen?
You do realize there are other good QB's that have been drafted since Allen was picked, including a 2 time MVP from the same draft after Allen right? You also realize Beane has one of the best draft records in the NFL since becoming GM right?
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3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
I don't think it is a fact they would have got him regardless. Who knows where San Fran ranked him and equally I think KC was a bit defending themselves against that slew of early 2nd round teams who might have wanted to jump up and possibly they thought Dallas too (although as you know I always thought they were OL no matter what).
But I do think more likely than not they'd have got him anyway at #32. Let's see what happens next.
Don't forget, KC could have made the same trade offer with one of the teams behind us too and not just wait until pick 32. I would say the odds of them getting him were pretty strong.
But yes, as you know, I thought Dallas could be a place Worthy could go, but I also stated they should go OL, that was the smarter and better pick for them. So with Guyton being there still, I think they would have likely stayed the course and taken Guyton because if they wanted Worthy they wouldn't have risked missing out on him trading back behind our pick IMO. And they still could have taken Mitchell there too which would have added a lot of speed and explosion to the offense still as well.
Personally, I don't think SF takes Worthy, he is not their style of player at all and they loved Pearsall from what I heard after the draft. Its possible, but I doubt he was going to go to SF.
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16 minutes ago, Sweats said:
All things considered, you can't say our FO didn't have their opportunities to make a big splash last night, however, if they feel their best value was in trading back for more picks, then i'm all for it.
They are probably fielding a lot of phone calls this morning anyways, so let's see how it all plays out.
There was never a "big splash" coming though, that was crystal clear that was not Beane's intent for anyone who actually watched Beanes press conference last week and listened to what he was saying. I posted it with takeaways and those takeaways came out spot on and matched everything he said last night in his press conference about round 1.
https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/254120-brand-beane-press-conf-418/
Now...Bills are armed rest of this draft (only had to move back 5 spaces) to really address some needs on this team, including ammo to move around the draft as he sees fit. Plus we have 3 picks in the first 2 rounds next year still and Beane still also has this coveted pick 33 that I am sure he is getting flooded with offers for if he sees an opportunity that makes sense to take.
Beane killed it round 1. Not to mention, Worthy and Legette were the exact 2 WR's I had been very vocal about NOT drafting in round 1. Worthy is a terrible fit in Buffalo for what this roster needs and Legette has the most to work on to avoid being another Gabe Davis.
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2 hours ago, NoName said:
How do you trade with KC? The team that kicked your ass every year. What a moron.
How do you not know Worthy still reaches KC if we don't trade with KC? Would you rather take some draft capital AWAY from KC and they take Worthy...or let KC get to KEEP that extra draft capital and STILL get Worthy?
The only moronic thing here is that you don't seem to understand this fact that KC was getting Worthy regardless and we instead got their 3rd almost exactly replacing the one we used to trade for Rasul vs them still getting Worthy and keeping their 3rd.
This fan base can be mind blowing on how they over react and don't see the bigger picture to things.
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1 hour ago, ToGoGo said:
Yeah I watch this and I realize that the worst part of the job is dealing with fans and media who don’t know anything. The posts in this board last night and today are embarrassing.
Yeah for real man, spot on
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On 4/18/2024 at 12:58 PM, Alphadawg7 said:
Take aways:
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I do not think Beane is even thinking about moving into the top 10 to get one of the big 3 WR.
- He said he would take any call, but he also said teams in the top 10 don't generally call teams down at 28.
- When asked about him calling them, he mocked them even wanting to take his call and made it clear he hasn't called them.
- Worth noting as well, Bills have no reported visits or meetings with MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze. We did reportedly meet once with Thomas.
- He is not a fan at all of moving a future first, which I will cover in comments below.
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I think he made it pretty clear as well that we are not going to be trading for a proven guy such as Aiyuk or Higgins as many have been wanting.
- Specifically said when we traded for Stef, Allen was an ascending player and the offense needed a guy like that.
- But that now with Allen ascended to the player he is, that is not a requirement and not necessary.
- He made it clear he is very comfortable making a small trade up to make sure he can get the guy he covets. So if there is one he wants where a small move up to go get him is on the table, I think he will pull that trigger.
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He also made it very clear he really does NOT want to move next years 1st, but did admit he would if the deal made sense to do it.
- Referenced regretting those kind of moves in the next draft when they did them in Carolina when the next draft came and the guy they gave up that first didn't really get them over the top.
- He also doesn't plan to move the 2nd we got for Diggs, but wouldn't rule it out if they felt the right deal was there.
- Between Josh, McD and Beane interviews, I think it was pretty clear they have a lot of confidence in the core of Samuel, Shakir, Kincaid, Knox, and Cook. It is clear we are going after a WR in first 2 rounds, but I would not expect us to go back to back WR or take 2 early as some around here have suggested. If we take a 2nd one, I would expect it later like rounds 4 and on.
- Beane made it clear that trading back is very much in play at 28 and pointed out if they couldn't get Kincaid they had a real good trade back worked out he really liked.
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Also added he would love to add someone on the DL that can contribute this season.
- While he said it could be in the first, would have to see what is there at 28 in general, but went on to say he sees guys outside the first in this draft that can come in and contribute this year.
So what I came away with is that I think there is very little chance we are making a move to get MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze. It was also clear it was just as unlikely we are going after someone like Aiyuk, Higgins, etc either. And that has been my belief all along as well.
While I wouldn't say that anything he said rules out moving up into the teens to get Thomas (like say Jags at 17), I think it's a low possibility he goes up outside the 20's. The thing that most often stuck out was the reluctance on using high future picks to move up. I think Beane really likes the idea of having a first and two 2nd's next year and really prefers not trading them. And I do think that trading back is a very strong possibility for us to try and get a 3rd this year or maybe even a third 2nd for next year.
All in all this was a good listen...and Beane has a track record for being pretty straight forward and candid on these things, so I think he is shooting pretty straight with his comments like he always has.
I would say this aged pretty well and I was pretty spot on. And here is Beane basically echoing the same things tonight after round 1 where he said he never even tried to trade up and no one called him either to try and initiate us to trade up. He even directly references wanting to get a 3rd back as I mentioned above and how now we have pick 95 and the pick we gave up for Rasul was like pick 91, so we essentially got that pick back.
Like I keep saying, all you have to do is listen to Beane and pay attention, he is about as straight forward as they come. Or don't and rely on bogus twitter nonsense designed to create buzz and clicks...but I think you will find Beanes own words to be more accurate than anything on social media.
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I do not think Beane is even thinking about moving into the top 10 to get one of the big 3 WR.
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Hahahaha this thread was all for nothing. Beane said they never even tried to trade up and no one called them about seeing if they wanted to trade up either.
I was pretty certain that we wouldn't make a big trade up, and was very vocal about it. But even I let the rumors get to me thinking well maybe they will even though it made no sense to me.
Gotta love the rumor mill of utter nonsense and BS this time of year haha
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34 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:
I'm still upset with losing out on both Xavier's in the trade downs. Those were my guys outside of Harrison, Nabers, Odunze, and BTJ.
That said, the 6th for 5th swap to go from 32 to 33 was a difference of *59* picks. It's much better value than it seemed at first.
AD Mitchell and Ladd McConkey still available. As are Cooper Dejean and Johnny Newton. All would have been good picks at 28. And now we have our 3rd back, will have 3 picks tomorrow instead of 2, and could move all over on Day 2 and 3.
As painful as it was to not land one of my favorite Top 6 WR's and walk away with nothing, I'm coming around to the plan. Or coping. One or the other.
Honestly, the best part of today for me was not taking Worthy or Legette. They were the only 2 WRs of the discussed ones for us in the first I didn’t want to take in the first.
And not picking them and adding more draft ammo with multiple WRs still there I have graded above both Worthy and Legette, especially in fit for the Bills specifically, is awesome IMHO.
I think McConkey, Mitchell, and Franklin are all better prospects for the Bills personally. To be totally honest, I would rather draft Ja’Lynn Polk over either Worthy or Legette too in terms of fit for the Bills.
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1 minute ago, Roundybout said:
It’s more that you allowed your hated conference rival and defending champion to get THEIR guy.They were getting him regardless if we didn't trade. At least this way we took away some of their draft capital.
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Just now, HappyDays said:
The stupid thing about this conversation is we could have just taken say Adonai Mitchell at #28. And then the Chiefs would have taken Worthy at #32 anyways.
Whereas with the move we actually made we could take Mitchell at #33 while picking up an extra 3rd and a favorable day three swap. But because it "looks" worse fans are less happy about that scenario than the objectively worse first scenario.
THANK YOU. The reactions around here are so ridiculous. We clearly didn't want Worthy or we would have taken him. And if pass at 28 and take someone else, Worthy still makes it to KC.
Unreal how this is puzzling for some people
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10 minutes ago, Rigotz said:
I think we might trade down again.
Gut instinct is Beane wants two 2nd round picks to go WR/WR bang, bang, then spend another pick in the late 2nd early 3rd on safety.
I could see that. Gonna be a lot of options here at 33.
- Trade back again, lots of guys who make sense for us still on board.
- Go defense with someone like DeJean or Newton.
- Address OL with someone like JPJ
- Take one of the WR's people thought we would take at 28 possibly in: Mitchell, McConkey, or Franklin
Then if we say take another position, will Beane sit at 60 and see who falls or maybe take someone like Walker there? Or will he be aggressive and move back up for one of those other WR's.
Tomorrow will be fun to see how it unfolds...not real definite way I can see him play this right now. Lots of options.
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11 minutes ago, Virgil said:
We spent a lot of time with DeJean, Franklin and Walker pre-draft. I think tomorrow, we either go DeJean and Walker, or Franklin and ??
This is what I said in the live draft thread...Cooper (I had at 32 before the trade down, nut now 33) and then they will take Walker at 60 if they don't trade back up.
Or take Cooper and then package some picks and move back up from 60 and get McConkey, Mitchell, or Franklin. If we end the first 2 rounds with Cooper and one of the WR's everyone thought we would take at 28, that would be a great start to the draft.
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Do You Like What Beane Did in the First Round?
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Unless we trade back again, I think there is very little chance both our picks in round 2 are WRs. BPA at 33 likely isn’t even a WR between DeJean, JPJ, Newton, and some others still on the board. Doesn’t mean we won’t take one at 33, I’m just highly doubtful we use both on a WR when they can still get a promising WR in rounds 3 and 4 if they want to double dip.