GaryPinC
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Posts posted by GaryPinC
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On 12/29/2021 at 5:33 AM, plenzmd1 said:
If I am dense, you are just a complete idiot that denies evidence.First, if it was not intended to stop transmission why is it called a vaccine? Just answer that one question and cite another vaccine that was not intended to stop transmission only help with symptoms once contracted. I will stop all posting if you can simply prove what you assert , the vaccines initial goal was to curb symptoms, and it was never intended to stop transmission.
I suppose you will deny this too directly from the FDA Website.
Jesus , i would rather be dence than as gullible as you
Second, watch the video I posted, or the one @Big Blitz did, direct from Faucis mouth “ the are incredibly effective against variants”. Are you truly denying he said that? Do you deny the CEO of Pfizer claimed 100% effectiveness against transmission in South Africa ? Do you deny the hard of the CDC said vaccinated no longer transmit the virus? That Maddow said the “ virus stops at the vaccinated”. If you dumb enoughy to deny all those things even though they are all on the video I linked, you are just being obtuse.
Oh that’s right, it hits when people go back inside, like it has two years in a row in the southeast without a vaccine and with a vaccine, just as it has in the north when we go back inside with or without a “vaccine. “
and when it goes down in February/March just like it Did last year, it will be credited to the vaccine.
Cripes.
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
"every year the flu vaccine is modified to deal with new strains of the virus"
That's it. Simple. Even for you. Vaccines are meant to protect the body by sensitizing the immune system against an antigen (disease). How that effects transmission will be unknown and vary depending on the etiology of the virus/disease, and how quickly the immunized individual eliminates the antigen.
WRT transmission, this is from July 2021:. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210720/Researchers-examine-the-effectiveness-of-the-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-vaccine-in-reducing-household-transmission.aspx
"Additionally, the overall vaccine effectiveness against transmission (VET) was found to be 88.5%."
This was known to drop against Delta, and most likely even moreso against Omicron, hence the wording on the CDC website. They have backed off because of the new variants.
No one is denying what Fauci said.
THE PROBLEM IS YOU REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID WAS TRUE AT THE TIME BUT HAS SINCE CHANGED WITH DELTA AND OMICRON.
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6 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:
You are serious? Can’t be, no way. Honestly, from the start we were told vaccines would stop transmission, that only changed when the effectiveness went down.
people who want to believe like you rehash facts to fit your narrative. How can you deny any of these things were said? They are all on record.
a few breakthough cases is not the same as it was never intended to stop transmission. Call it a therapeutic if ya want, it sure as chit ain’t a vaccine.
BTW, my double mask wearing , rule following, triple shot daughter at home with Covid right now.
all a ***** sham, and you buying into it. Virus was always gunna virus. Change the tone on vaccines as they are not a solution out as we are seeing, and it’s a danger to society and public health to keep pushing something as a panacea to the Covid era when it so clearly does not work as intended.
Good Lord, you are incredibly dense. The vaccine wasn't touted to prevent transmission until it was proven by trial back in January of 2021. This was against early variants, there was no Delta and omicron at that point.
From spring of 2020 until January 2021, vaccine trials focused on prevention/mitigation of severity. This was the primary endpoint for emergency approval.
Prevention of transmission was proven after healthcare workers had begun vaccination and was icing on the cake.
It's a virus. They mutate. The science changes. Welcome to science. The government is not to blame for that.
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8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:
Sweden did not overwhelm their healthcare system without a lockdown, so I would say your "success" would only be considered such if your only metric is one dimensional
Go look at the vaccination rate of Sweden. That is a population that follows what their government says, far better than the US. Sweden has also admitted they botched that part of Covid and their death rate was too high. Realize also Sweden was not testing for Covid as aggressively as the rest of the world since they were going for herd immunity. Also, most of their gatherings were outdoors, lowering the risk. Compare it to Russia, who doesn't follow what their government says unless forced, which only happened recently. You want to be multi-dimensional, let's be multi-dimensional.
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12 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:
Your right why would anyone not trust a government who turned "two weeks to flatten the curve" into 2 years of lockdowns? But your point is still wrong because we know for a fact that a teenager is more likely to get Myocarditis from the vaccine than die from Covid itself. If it was political I would not have gotten it, I am the norm, you are a political hack
Other than NYC, we did flatten the curve. Here in Ohio, they predicted 8-12k cases a day and we got a max of just over 1300 during lockdown. Seemed like predictions were way off until fall/winter 2020 when they came true.
The original lockdown was done to prevent overwhelming our health system and give medicine and science more time to get the necessary understanding and resources to better treat Covid patients. It was painful but successful.
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On 12/26/2021 at 6:08 AM, plenzmd1 said:
We tried to keep off Covid last night, could not. Amazing to me 3 of my relatives insist the point of the vaccine as NEVER EVER to prevent transmission,the whole time it was just so that when you inevitably got Covid, your symptoms would not be as bad.
even showing them Fauci and Walensky (sp) saying the exact opposite they insist the message has been the same from day 1 of the vaccines.
fascinating study in human behavior.
Your relatives are right. When vaccinations began, it was unknown if they would prevent transmission. It was strongly felt they would enable our bodies to at least fight it off more effectively. Before Delta and Omicron, studies showed that the mRNA vaccines did indeed prevent transmission, which was rightly touted by Fauci and the CDC.
With our current variants that aspect is greatly reduced or eliminated.
It's a virus. The science is changing quickly, unfortunately.
Perhaps the most interesting human behavior is the inability to comprehend a rapidly changing situation and only see in two dimensions.
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12 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
Mac jones is the best thing to happen to the afc east teams not named the patriots…he’s good but his ceiling is just too low for them to be a serious perennial threat in my opinion and NE will be stuck in that good not great range as long as he’s there
He may not be there long. From flushing Kosar, to Bledsoe, to Stidham, Belli has never been one to ride with a mediocre QB any longer than necessary.
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2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
Why?
Personal bias. 🙂 Is Cole going to self-report very mild symptoms that could be anything? Or is he going to play through them? I know I would play through them, especially if I felt, as he does, that his symptoms wouldn't stop him playing.
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7 minutes ago, Hsker4life said:
So if he was vaccinated he would be playing? You know that how?
We don't know if he'd be playing or not. He feels like he could play and if he were vaccinated, per the rules, he may never have been tested to discover it. Especially as I doubt he would self report.
Regardless, he made his decision and stand up for it. Stop blaming the rules as his decision puts himself over the needs of the team. Even though his team supports him, stop trying the distracting, cowardly deflection.
11 minutes ago, cale said:We need to let this tool and a couple of others go this offseason. Just can't count on them. If he was vaccinated the protocol is that he'd be back in circulation by Sunday.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32911909/nfl-covid-19-protocol-changes-week-15-postponed-games-new-testing-return-play-rules-nfl-navigate-omicron-variantAlso apparently the majority of players are not boosted. Like what the ....?
CDC failed all of us not ringing the bell on the booster more loudly earlier this fall. Ample evidence is there that 6 mos is all you can count on for significant immunity.
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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
Do you really think so? I personally think that Beasley is pretty much a stand-up guy and have no reason to believe he's a liar.
After the Rodgers stuff came out, I developed some admiration for Beasley; at least he had the balls to speak up about his beliefs, he's not a lying weasel using "but I'd be attacked on social media!" as an excuse and retrospectively claiming freedom fighter status like AR did.
What worries me is that Day 1 of being infected is early days. Maybe he'll get through it great, and maybe the worst is waiting for him.
While I also admire Beasley for standing up for his beliefs/convictions, a true stand-up guy IMO, also knows when to shut up when causing a needless distraction.
He is not playing because he knew the rules and stuck by his non-vaccinated beliefs. Now he chooses to blame the rules and not his decision. That's not stand-up.
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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
I don't think it's "inevitable", but I think it's very likely given the NFL's change in policy to only test players with self-reported symptoms.
They are betting the season on the belief that asymptomatic players won't be contagious.
I think they are betting the season on the belief that most of the vaccinated infected players will be asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic and play through it.
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9 hours ago, Nextmanup said:
I was disappointed in McDermott's "chat" with him as he pulled him from the game.
He should have chewed his ass off, but didn't.McDermott, more than any coach I can recall, overtly acknowledges using your emotions is a huge part of playing in the NFL. He encourages appropriate individual expressions of those emotions. He appropriately handled the situation.
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7 hours ago, Chef Jim said:
This silly cartoon is extremely accurate. While many liberal have gone off the rails to the woke left, conservatives have pretty much stayed the same.
Can you list the conservative values you find funny.
No, the silly cartoon is not accurate. Conservatives have most definitely not stayed the same and gone equally off the rails as their progressive counterparts.
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12 hours ago, Doc said:
Possibly. He took another one right after and it was negative.
They were using the Binax Now test. I've used this at home and if you get a positive Covid result it's 98.5% accurate. If you get a negative result it's 84.6% chance it's accurate.
So with Trump's negative test, there's about a 15% chance it was inaccurate, for his positive about a 1.5% chance it was inaccurate.
Then he got sick and confirmed Covid a couple days later. Sooooo...
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Congratulations to Michigan and the B1G for adding some juice back to this storied rivalry. Let's hope it can last!
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27 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:
sure thing
Total deaths per/million to date
NY..2970
Fla ..2847
Really no statistical difference. One could argue NY was hit last spring before so much was known, and at least in the NYC area, mush denser living conditions. However, one could also argue Florida has a greater percentage of risk folks due to age....so not sure how to separate that out.
Florida had what looks like its peak in August 21...412 deaths at its highest....not quite sure how to put a date range in there. Yesterday they had 7.
Florida at its peak last August with same policies but no vax had at its peak 214 deaths.
Hmm, and this year they had close to 62% fully vaxed.
NY last year on this date last year had 39 deaths...this year has 50...again with close to 70% fully vaxed.
And , lets not forget we are always told hospitalizations lag cases, deaths lag hospitalizations.
And cases are up 25% year over year in NYS same date as last year.
all numbers courtesy of Worldmeters, easy as pie to go there and look.
To me, if anything this points to deaths and cases being higher WITH vaccines.
Again, I am open to hearing why that is not the case..taking same population and numbers on same dates...
so deaths are WAY up with 70% vax, but god bless they are our only way out? Do you listen to yourself?
Congratulations, how much of NY's numbers are due to that Cuomo debacle at the beginning? Wonder how it looks if you take away both Florida and New York's initial surge? But, in all fairness, data is incomplete until the winter surge is over
WRT your point about numbers, it's called the delta variant and it's also called lack of boosters, which the CDC has pretty much dropped the ball on IMO. They should have rang the 6 month bell at the end of summer for everyone.
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And of course, one of the premier countries whose citizens mostly ignored covid via a very lagging vaccination rate and took little or no precautions until very recently, Russia:
Maybe they'll actually get some kind of control over it soon and at least chart an actual baseline.
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And here's the total cases numbers (same graphical scales) :
Note NY's impressive baselines compared to Florida's. Not sure this justifies the excessive lockdowns in NY though
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Keep in mind the scales are different, NY is 3 fold higher making FLA's data appear 3 times relatively larger. But note NY's impressive lack of deaths/hospitalizations with their lockdown summer. Also note FLA's 2020 winter surge was pretty much equal to NY when it should have been smaller because it was technically "off season".
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18 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:
I don't believe my logic is flawed, but i will admit i am using an arbitrary number as to added protection for not needing hospitalization. If we go on basis of no added benefit from vaccine in terms of hospitalizations, then I agree with your premise.
And i appreciate you going through it, and not only hurling insults like your boy who shall remain nameless.
And let me ask you this question. Here is Florida's chart with 61% vaxed...did the vaccines really work as advertised? Ny case rates appear the same.
New York appears to have same number of cases as last year at this time...again with vaccines
If you want to claim any intellectual honesty, why don't you do apples to apples and compare the death rates of New York to Florida and to NY surge in 2020? Because that makes a strong pro-vaccination case while at the same time contrasting DeSantis's hands-off approach with New York's strict lockdown measures. Biased much?
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On 11/20/2021 at 7:57 AM, leh-nerd skin-erd said:
I’m a meet in the middle guy on most issues, though I have things that are important to me and I dig in. The people involved in violence and the assault on the Capitol should be prosecuted in accordance with the law. Whomever was responsible for security of our elected officials—cretins though they often seem to be—should be relieved of their duties and be charged criminally if such charges are warranted.
It seems to me, however, that a conversation about Trump’s actions and the “Stop the Steal” movement broadly is incomplete without acknowledgement of the assault and attempt to undermine the American process that took place during the Russia saga.
Put another way, it’s all well and good to hilight finger-pointing and division, but honest dialogue requires honesty. “Stop the steal” likely never happens without the “Trump = coup”, “Trump = treason” and the attempt to remove him from office.
You're absolutely right about Russiagate, I hope they nail involved political operatives to the wall just as I hope they do the same for the "stop the steal".
I guess I differ from you in that I have no problem looking at the two as separate events, but respect the validity of your point. I believe the "stop the steal" ploy would have been employed regardless, Russiagate just made it more believable (and fervently so) to more people.
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37 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:
Yeah, the most high profile, and the overwhelming majority of, Democrats in this country almost stampeded each other in their zeal to race to a microphone to condemn the violence that was going on across the nation........
You should probably open yourself up to the fact a few isolated soundbites (one of which is one sentence of a written statement by Joe Biden, who couldn't even stand up in public and actually say it) do not deter from the fact that the Democratic party as a whole was remarkably silent when it came to the violence.
Last year was such an insane year. It was absolutely appalling in places like Portland the abandonment of law, order, and justice for those protests and the lack of outrage and action by democratic leadership.
It was equally appalling Trump's behavior post election, trying to undermine the American process and his role in fomenting and not preventing January 6. Every Republican should have been outraged.
But the most appalling and un-American thing in all this is both side's cowardice in admitting fault while more fervently pointing the finger at the other side's transgressions. This is what our enemies want.
I'm glad you can admit you don't support Jan 6. Thank you that's a start. Now, can you admit Trump's cowardice in taking action to prevent that riot is THE SAME EXACT COWARDICE as the Portland mayor and leadership for their riots?
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44 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:
Cherry picking would have been only discussing the .87 because it works for much less than half, but I pulled that from what you sent me so it must be valid. I do appreciate your continued lying about me, it makes you seem desperate.
If you look at the data he references the drop from month 6-8 is precipitous. He is just attacking because I misunderstood a study that was focused on elderly and thought it was overall. Since then everything he has said has turned out be wrong so he still focused on my self admitted mistake back in August.
Thanks, I'll definitely circle back on it. It's a prime concern and may dictate a strategic change. You both made good points, as I read it. I just felt the source of your disagreement was referring to different efficacies but not recognizing that.
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4 hours ago, Sundancer said:
And...you're wrong even though you now try to change your position.
Science MAgazine and 780,000 people studied...
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620
From July to October 2021, VE-D for age 65 years was 73.0% for Janssen, 81.5% for Moderna, and 84.3% for Pfizer-BioNTech; VE-D for age ≥65 years was 52.2% for Janssen, 75.5% for Moderna, and 70.1% for Pfizer-BioNTech. Findings support continued efforts to increase vaccination, booster campaigns, and multiple, additional layers of protection against infection.
So even for older people, the vaccine "works."
If you were wrong because the data changed or evolved, you'd be a scientist.
But you were just wrong without data to support you. That's the thing that really stupid people get caught up in.
Now who's lying? The guy who doesn't get jokes.
I checked with my new employer Dr. Fauci and he said this was ok for me to post. Tell me if you fall for this one too.
The problem with the data you cite is it needs to be broken out by month of full inoculation. If the immune system is losing efficacy the true magnitude may be hidden given that the sensitivity may diminish a lot from 6-8 months.
It seems to me you are referring to vaccine efficacy while Buffalo Timmy is referring to immune system efficacy.
I'm afraid the magnitude of immune efficacy and vaccine efficacy loss won't be well quantified until after the winter post-holiday surge. I'm not going to just trust Pfizer's word on it at this point.
Just glad my parents got boosted and I'll get mine soon as late January is my 1 yr anniversary.
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13 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:
I hesitate to call it fraud or intentional deception. But I think the debate can be resolved by breaking out the death stats into 2 categories. It comes down to the method that cause of death is assigned to these cases. Like the example I used where a person has contracted COVID but they are overweight, have diabetes, and high blood pressure. One argument is the cause of death is COVID because absent that the person might still be alive but you could also argue if they weren't overweight and diabetic they would have survived COVID so the cause of death is obesity. You can make a sound argument for either.
That's why I think the purest way to look at it is the death count "with COVID" where co-morbidities or pre-existing conditions are present or "by COVID" when no co-morbidities or pre-existing conditions exist. Population cohorts show the majority of deaths are "with COVID".
APB, I understand what you're saying, and certainly in some cases it may be difficult to tease out which problem is ultimately responsible.
But let's be clear, you're comparing chronic diseases to an acute disease. The person's health/medical condition is chronically documented and known at the time of Covid infection.
While a strong majority of cases have underlying co-morbidities (I saw 70%), there are a minority that don't and all these people seem to die in a similar fashion.
Covid seems to kill primarily through the lungs, pneumonia, cytokine storm regardless if there are any patient co-morbidities.
So if ANY Covid+ patient dies acutely, in a consistent manner of Covid, the burden falls on proving they died WITH Covid, ie it was mildly present but not the primary factor behind the death.
It's Time to Mandate Vaccines
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
August 23, 2021. Moderna followed. The entire reason vaccine mandates began in earnest.
Classic tweetardation, congratulations.