DC Tom Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 i still have meaning and it deals with reality. Prove. It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 lets say there are no laws, what do u think will happen tom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 lets say there are no laws, what do u think will happen tom? Let's say there is no God/Religion what happens then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 lets say there are no laws, what do u think will happen tom? We're not talking about what I THINK will happen, we're talking about the evolutionary basis for morality that you claim to have rationally established based on "obvious" evidence. If it's so obvious, present the evidence. We're also not talking about laws, we're talking about an evolutionary basis for morality. Are you claiming they're the same thing? If so, prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 We're not talking about what I THINK will happen, we're talking about the evolutionary basis for morality that you claim to have rationally established based on "obvious" evidence. If it's so obvious, present the evidence. We're also not talking about laws, we're talking about an evolutionary basis for morality. Are you claiming they're the same thing? If so, prove it. ok u realize that evolution has been proven. what is evolution? natural selection through mutation, breeding, enviorment, to help a species survive. through our experience with our enviorment, like with other people and economic systems we have to adapt. we must adapt to other needs and wants to help our own survival. i dont know how much more i can explain it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 this is why we invented laws... it so we can adapt to our enviorment and survive.. a great example is the speed limit....we dont allow people to go 200mph on the road, why? because it doesnt help us survive as a species... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 ok u realize that evolution has been proven. what is evolution? Actually, it hasn't. It's a theory, not a proof. But we'll stipulate that, for the sake of not confusing you any further... through our experience with our enviorment, like with other people and economic systems we have to adapt. we must adapt to other needs and wants to help our own survival. i dont know how much more i can explain it... That's not a proof of an evolutionary basis for morality. I'm not even sure it's English, frankly...but if you meant "we must adapt to OTHER'S needs and wants to help our own survival," which I think you did...where is your evidence for that statement? Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 this is why we invented laws... it so we can adapt to our enviorment and survive.. a great example is the speed limit....we dont allow people to go 200mph on the road, why? because it doesnt help us survive as a species... Do you want to discuss laws, or an evolutionary basis for morality? And that is not why speed limits exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Actually, it hasn't. It's a theory, not a proof. But we'll stipulate that, for the sake of not confusing you any further... That's not a proof of an evolutionary basis for morality. I'm not even sure it's English, frankly...but if you meant "we must adapt to OTHER'S needs and wants to help our own survival," which I think you did...where is your evidence for that statement? Prove it. evolution is a collection of facts.. thats what a theory is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 we have laws and coperation for a reason, what do u think its for? its for our survival in general... the proof is in the pudding, our sense of altruism is the result of evolution, how do we know this, because altruism and fairness help us survive as a species. there is the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 tom we have laws to helps us survive (speed limit) (vaccinations) ( car insurance) ( dont murder) (dont steal) etc... and this comes from our reasoning...which is a product of evolution. the laws are proof that we need order so we can survive, the need to survive comes from evolution, that is if u understand what evolution is. what does this even have to do with god, nobody has given any rational explanation for the christian gods existence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 tom we have laws to helps us survive (speed limit) (vaccinations) ( car insurance) ( dont murder) (dont steal) etc... and this comes from our reasoning...which is a product of evolution. the laws are proof that we need order so we can survive, the need to survive comes from evolution, that is if u understand what evolution is. what does this even have to do with god, nobody has given any rational explanation for the christian gods existence... John, I apologize. I stated a couple of days ago that you were getting dull. It might just be the beer talking, but this is gold Jerry. You are back on top of your game. Your incoherent babbling is truly gold. How you manage to troll this hard for this long is truly impressive. Even Crayonz has to take a break every once in a while to recharge the batteries/googlebot/whatever. If you aren't trolling, please remember to wear a helmet when you leave your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 John, I apologize. I stated a couple of days ago that you were getting dull. It might just be the beer talking, but this is gold Jerry. You are back on top of your game. Your incoherent babbling is truly gold. How you manage to troll this hard for this long is truly impressive. Even Crayonz has to take a break every once in a while to recharge the batteries/googlebot/whatever. If you aren't trolling, please remember to wear a helmet when you leave your house. do u believe evolution is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 do u believe evolution is true? In general, yes. Specifically as Darwin laid out, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 what do u mean in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 what do u mean in general? I knew that spelling and grammar weren't your fortes. Apparently you have difficulty with meaning as well. Sorry 'bout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 omg, do u think evolution is true or not, what do u mean in general, what part of evolution do u not agree with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 do u think gay marriage is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 i just want to see where ur coming from of course i place value on life, what is ur point? ur equating on the idea that if i dont believe in god then life is meaningless, u r forgeting that u must deal with reality...for example u will suffer if u think u can fly... u will hit the ground hard when u jump. reality forces us to make decisions that coincide with our happiness... why is this so hard for u to understand... life has meaning without god, its easy to see. Another example of relativism. Of course you don't place 0 value on life.....but you don't say how much value you place. Instead, you leave that as an abstraction. "Value" '= "high value or low value". A "value" means nothing. $1 is a "value" and so is $1 million. And again, as long as you maintain this phony abstraction, then the value you place on any given life, at any given time, can CHANGE! This is the exact opposite of morality. This is relativism. I am not equating any of this with belief in God. I am simply saying: stop using a double negative ("I don't believe that life is meaningless") define your position. Instead, tell us what you do believe, or admit that you have no moral basis for your beliefs and instead base them on relativity, or STFU! Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Another example of relativism. Of course you don't place 0 value on life.....but you don't say how much value you place. Instead, you leave that as an abstraction. "Value" '= "high value or low value". A "value" means nothing. $1 is a "value" and so is $1 million. And again, as long as you maintain this phony abstraction, then the value you place on any given life, at any given time, can CHANGE! This is the exact opposite of morality. This is relativism. I am not equating any of this with belief in God. I am simply saying: stop using a double negative ("I don't believe that life is meaningless") define your position. Instead, tell us what you do believe, or admit that you have no moral basis for your beliefs and instead base them on relativity, or STFU! Take your pick. of course the value can change, it depends on the situation.... this isnt moral relativism, its still based on a foundation of happiness and suffering... its subjective but not moral relativism... again at least i have a foundation that wraps around on itself. happiness is conducive towards more happiness... belief that morals come from god imply that what god does is moral, no matter what action, this is moral relativism...there is no value system here or utility... i believe something is right because its conducive towards well being. a theist believes something is right because god said so... this is moral relatvism the consequentialist has a moral foundation is which to place value. a moral relativist has no foundation... your premise that because i place value on life and that this value can change says nothing about what is moral or not , it just says that the values themselves can change depending on the situtation... ur equating change with moral relativism. that is where u r wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts