'64 Bills Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Saban and Butler both quit because Ralph was a jerk add in Knox - -he asked for an improved practice facility ( they used to go to Chestnut Ridge Park to work when it had rained when they wanted to work on grass) and more control of players personnel - -when Ralph didn't he get back to him with an answer he walked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 everyone has the right to their opinion, but some of your proported "facts" are off or misleading, thus stunting the thrust of your point.Butler, who was "fired" in December 2000, was fired because he refused to commit to a new contract and it was widely rumored that he was going to jump ship and go to San Diego anyway. Mr. Wilson wanted to re-sign Butler, but Butler refused to negotiate. "The ONLY justification for his HOF induction ..." i think not. you overlook numerous contributions, from his role in helping negotiate the framework of what proved to be the eventual AFL-NFL merger, and how it included the very important revenue-sharing clause. it was at Mr. Wilson's urging that the AFL negotiated a TV contract that allowed each team a $900,000 cut that caught the NFL off guard, and made the AFL a league to be reckoned with, thus forcing the merger. Mr. Wilson's role on numerous influential committees helped form the game that is being played today and also averted a major labor dispute in 1977, that could have set the league back by decades. i think you discount the role Mr. Wilson had in preserving the Bills, never mind establishing the team in Buffalo in the first place, a city that might not have had AFL or NFL for that matter without Ralph. and do you discount him too for turning down several offers to relocate the team, including one by Tex Schram, who offered to come up to Buffalo and help pack? i don't recall Polian bringing the Colts a Super Bowl in 1992. it's easy to play the pessimistic role and find fault. heck, we in the media get accused of that all the time. but what's your point and to what end are you trying to get to, especially when cherry-picking negative and sometimes erroneous "facts" to support your case and dismissing the positives. oh, and to your point in questioning ... "where is Indy & SanDiego?" check a map, the first is in Indiana, where they have a big car race on Memorial Day weekend, and the other's in southern California, just north of the Mexican border and where they have famous zoo. jw The players and coaches on the 68 Jets and the 69 Chiefs had nothing to do with the merger, right? It was all Ralph's doings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The players and coaches on the 68 Jets and the 69 Chiefs had nothing to do with the merger, right? It was all Ralph's doings. what the ...? considering the fact the agreement to merge was reached in 1966, i'd say, no. the '68 Jets and '69 Chiefs had nothing to do with the merger. they were merely playing out the agreed to string of Super Bowls before the NFL was formally established into one league. in fact, to further your mistake, those champions owed a debt to the remaining members of the Foolish Club, particularly Lamar Hunt, but also including Mr. Wilson, and Al Davis (not an original member) for helping ensure the AFL franchises would still be around by that time. but please, why let mere facts get in the way of the point you comprehensively failed to make? jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 everyone has the right to their opinion, but some of your proported "facts" are off or misleading, thus stunting the thrust of your point.Butler, who was "fired" in December 2000, was fired because he refused to commit to a new contract and it was widely rumored that he was going to jump ship and go to San Diego anyway. Mr. Wilson wanted to re-sign Butler, but Butler refused to negotiate. "The ONLY justification for his HOF induction ..." i think not. you overlook numerous contributions, from his role in helping negotiate the framework of what proved to be the eventual AFL-NFL merger, and how it included the very important revenue-sharing clause. it was at Mr. Wilson's urging that the AFL negotiated a TV contract that allowed each team a $900,000 cut that caught the NFL off guard, and made the AFL a league to be reckoned with, thus forcing the merger. Mr. Wilson's role on numerous influential committees helped form the game that is being played today and also averted a major labor dispute in 1977, that could have set the league back by decades. i think you discount the role Mr. Wilson had in preserving the Bills, never mind establishing the team in Buffalo in the first place, a city that might not have had AFL or NFL for that matter without Ralph. and do you discount him too for turning down several offers to relocate the team, including one by Tex Schram, who offered to come up to Buffalo and help pack? i don't recall Polian bringing the Colts a Super Bowl in 1992. it's easy to play the pessimistic role and find fault. heck, we in the media get accused of that all the time. but what's your point and to what end are you trying to get to, especially when cherry-picking negative and sometimes erroneous "facts" to support your case and dismissing the positives. oh, and to your point in questioning ... "where is Indy & SanDiego?" check a map, the first is in Indiana, where they have a big car race on Memorial Day weekend, and the other's in southern California, just north of the Mexican border and where they have famous zoo. jw JW I'll assume your Indy /Sandiego comments were tongue in cheek.... Polian left in 1992 - he ended up delivering a Superbowl and may be the best GM of our time When Butler 'left' he was lready the 2nd lowest paid GM in football at the time despite the team making it to the playoffs 10 of prior 11 years......did you in the media ever ask why Butler was so eager to leave??? Or was that too much work? Again....I dont see the Rooneys losing their talent via firings or wanting to leave They recognize and appreciate top talent when they get it. Why was Polian fired? he called Ralphs daughter a bad name? And remind me why Ralphs daughter was arguing player talent with the most talented GM in football?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 That is just horsesh*t, sorry. no need to apologize. i think you were right without the sorry. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 JW I'll assume your Indy /Sandiego comments were tongue in cheek.... Polian left in 1992 - he ended up delivering a Superbowl and may be the best GM of our time When Butler 'left' he was lready the 2nd lowest paid GM in football at the time despite the team making it to the playoffs 10 of prior 11 years......did you in the media ever ask why Butler was so eager to leave??? Or was that too much work? Again....I dont see the Rooneys losing their talent via firings or wanting to leave They recognize and appreciate top talent when they get it. Why was Polian fired? he called Ralphs daughter a bad name? And remind me why Ralphs daughter was arguing player talent with the most talented GM in football?? right, because John Butler was so open to the media, that we had a red carpet straight to his door. John Butler was a good man, but he didn't care to discuss too much with reporters in my one year there, and that's fine. so yes, it was hard work to get anything more than a good day out of him. but i'm sure you had him on speed dial, so what do i know. sorry about the '92, i mistook what you meant. i won't get into an argument with you -- or anyone else for that matter -- in regards to Polian and Linda. i wasn't there. i don't know. and if you're basing your comparisons with that of the Steelers, well, i think then the list of franchises left wanting is quite long and goes far beyond Ralph Wilson and the Bills. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Why was Polian fired? he called Ralphs daughter a bad name? And remind me why Ralphs daughter was arguing player talent with the most talented GM in football?? Is this why Polian was fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholic Guilt Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I cannot believe I wasted ten minutes reading this garbage. From his Wikipedia page: "He was a guiding force in AFL policies that ensured success, such as gate and television revenue sharing; in 1961, with the rival Oakland Raiders in financial difficulty, Wilson loaned the club $400,000 and also would be willing to loan money to Billy Sullivan of the Patriots. Wilson helped keep those franchises afloat, likely saving the entire league from folding. In November 1963, Wilson lobbied successfully to have American Football League games postponed the Sunday after President John F. Kennedy's assassination, while NFL games went on uninterrupted." "Wilson continues to be one of the league's most outspoken owners. He was one of only two owners (the Cincinnati Bengals' Mike Brown being the other) to oppose the league's current collective bargaining agreement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Allows #1 pick Tom Cousineau to go to CFL 1979Cousineau leaving paved the road for Knox leaving to Seattle where he won division champs 1982 You're totally off on this one......Cousineau went to Montreal and then Knox turned the Bills into a powerhouse in 1980 (my favorite sports team ever). Knox didn't leave till after the 82 season, and then went to Seattle. I think they did win the division in '83 there. I know they won their first playoff game ever. But, obviously Cousineau leaving had nothing to do with Knox leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwws9999 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 You're totally off on this one......Cousineau went to Montreal and then Knox turned the Bills into a powerhouse in 1980 (my favorite sports team ever). Knox didn't leave till after the 82 season, and then went to Seattle. I think they did win the division in '83 there. I know they won their first playoff game ever. But, obviously Cousineau leaving had nothing to do with Knox leaving. not signing Cousineau infuriated Knox, but when Ralph let Kelly go to the Houston Gamblers, he walked, saying that buffalo was a "coaches graveyard", and ralph wouldn't have to spend any more money to have a good team, he just needs to stop being an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 pot meet kettle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 You're totally off on this one......Cousineau went to Montreal and then Knox turned the Bills into a powerhouse in 1980 (my favorite sports team ever). Knox didn't leave till after the 82 season, and then went to Seattle. I think they did win the division in '83 there. I know they won their first playoff game ever. But, obviously Cousineau leaving had nothing to do with Knox leaving. Knox came here in 1978 as high a profile coach as there was in 1978. He immediately traded OJ to San Fran for 5 picks where the key pick turned out to be Knox greatest wish the #1 overall pick. However that pick never played for Knox because the owner was outbid by a CFL team - that simply was the beginning of the end for Knox for working under Wilson. He left after 1982 and brought much success and division titles to Seattlele in the mid 1980;s....Wilsons team again went back to back 2-14 seasons. Sound familiar? allowing top talent to leave elsewhere to bring success??? Knox did it in Seattle...Polian did it in Carolina & Indy and Butler brought it to San Diego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 right, because John Butler was so open to the media, that we had a red carpet straight to his door. John Butler was a good man, but he didn't care to discuss too much with reporters in my one year there, and that's fine. so yes, it was hard work to get anything more than a good day out of him. but i'm sure you had him on speed dial, so what do i know. jw Thats funny I somehow thought it was the medias JOB to figure a way to get the proper information by establishing contacts anyway they can...its done in many cities by very good reporters. The problem here in Buffalo is that rarely happens....so instead of getting the opinion of a Bills scout or Bills GM we get the PERSONAL opinions of a Paul hamilton or howard Simon who dont know a damn thing about football and see no film. So the info we get is never well informed...its about as deep as having a buddy watch 1 practice and say what he thinks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 As great a GM as Polian has been, he's also had a bad temper and I dare you to find one employer who will keep you on if you start a fight with someone who's higher up in the organization than you (Polian also had problems with Littman...and Ralph values Littman higher than the GM) I don't give a crap how great you are at your job...if you start fights with higher-ups, you'll lose your job. As much as it sucks than Polian was fired, he was far from blameless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbuffalobob Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 How about the stupidity of firing Wade Philips? Great coach evenwhile utilizing a midget and a surfer for Qb's... respectable defenses... nice sweat shirts... and great press conferences too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 How about the stupidity of firing Wade Philips? Great coach evenwhile utilizing a midget and a surfer for Qb's... respectable defenses... nice sweat shirts... and great press conferences too... You mean the coach that essentially quit twice? First he said publicly we were out of the playoff race...just prior to a MNF game against the Colts, who we were tied with...and ENDED UP MAKING THE PLAYOFFS! Then, he quit the team rather than fire Ronnie Jones, the biggest screw-up Special Teams Coach around. Ralph told him to fire him or get lost. Did Wade actually think Ralph would keep Jones if Wade left? And we won't even get into how badly he kept that kept that QB controversy going as long as he did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billnutinphoenix Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Ralph had Polian...Mind you Polian is a hot-head and probably stepped on a lot of toes but man he's good!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Some people need to study their history. NOT signing Cousineau was the SINGLE greatest event in Buffalo Bills history as it turned out. To those that already know why, please refrain from answering why. These kiddies should do their homework. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 The players and coaches on the 68 Jets and the 69 Chiefs had nothing to do with the merger, right? It was all Ralph's doings. No, they didn't. The merger was agreed to in principle before the first SB was played, if memory serves correctly. Certainly before the '67 regular season. GO BILLS!!! PS - Peter Rozelle announced the merger on June 8, 1966. Well before the first SB was played. Certainly well before the Jets or Chiefs were even a gleam in the SB eye. And yes, Ralph had a lot to do with the clandestine meetings that took place between the leagues BEFORE Rozelle made the announcement. Know your history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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