Thoner7 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 You clearly have trouble with what the point of someone's argument is. Was my point that Trent Edwards got sacked? No, it doesn't matter who the damn QB was, the point was that it was Wood's man. Did I even mention anything about being mad the Bills didn't make a play for Harvey? Not at all, my point was that he wasn't there when we picked. You have a serious problem grasping arguments. Take your own advice pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I agree with the poster. Our DL is absolutely horrible. Schobel gets a free ride from many fans because at one time he was productive but his play has drastically gotten worse over the last 3 years. Denney and Kelsey were horrible high draft picks. Mcargo looked terrible in his first preseason game. He has run out out excuses. I don't care if he is having a good camp; he better show it in the games. Maybin is our only hope. It sucks to have all your hope in a rookie. I can't understand for the life of me why we didn't address this either in the draft or in free agency. There were quality lineman in the FA. I believe there are still a few guys out there but the status quo is not going to get the job done. We could have the best DB's in the NFL but their going to look bad on Sunday because the QB has all day to deliver the ball. Do you want to know why teams like Tennessee are better than the Bills----> because they dominate in the trenches!!! This is not based on one preseason game. This is based on the last several years and the fact that we did nothing to address this major weakness... When Ngta, the all-pro DT for the Ravens, was available in the draft a few years the Bills drafted safety Donte Whitner with their high first round pick. Then the Bills under Levy, Modrak and Jauron, traded back up to take McCargo in the lower first half of the first round. When asked why the Bills didn't take the highly rated Ngta in the draft when he was available the team reps said that they didn't believe that he fit their system of light and quick on the line. In addition, Marv Levy was asked why didn't the Bills draft a franchise qb such as Cutler who was on the board instead of using the pick on a safety. The congenial Marv said that he didn't believe using a high pick on a franchise qb was the way to go for this franchise. There should be no surprises why this organization ranks 29 out of 32 teams for the past decade. The same front office brought in by Donahoe has remained on the job, only now overseen by a marketing specialist. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Its not a terrible assumption to believe that if Schobel isn't healthy that he and the high motor crew of Kelsay and Denny will be gone. Ellis could be held on for depth if he shows something this season but he isn't a lock to stay. I think next years first round pick (Lets assume that if the D gets no pass rush they will be 6-10 to 8-8 at best) will likely be a front seven player or an o-lineman. I think if DJ can't sniff the playoffs he will be gone. A new regime will either draft a DE or a LT with that top 12 pick. Than in the second round they will go after a OLB or a RT. To me if the Bills fire DJ they will go after a HC that will be a hardass kind of guy. The non-stop parade of DB's in the draft will stop and the big picks of next year will be invested in the meat and potatoes of the team. (Hopefully) I just hope Ralph realizes how bad a coach DJ is and realizes that drafting D-Backs in favor of front seven player over and over again is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Its not a terrible assumption to believe that if Schobel isn't healthy that he and the high motor crew of Kelsay and Denny will be gone. Ellis could be held on for depth if he shows something this season but he isn't a lock to stay. I think next years first round pick (Lets assume that if the D gets no pass rush they will be 6-10 to 8-8 at best) will likely be a front seven player or an o-lineman. I think if DJ can't sniff the playoffs he will be gone. A new regime will either draft a DE or a LT with that top 12 pick. Than in the second round they will go after a OLB or a RT. To me if the Bills fire DJ they will go after a HC that will be a hardass kind of guy. The non-stop parade of DB's in the draft will stop and the big picks of next year will be invested in the meat and potatoes of the team. (Hopefully) I just hope Ralph realizes how bad a coach DJ is and realizes that drafting D-Backs in favor of front seven player over and over again is stupid. We've drafted 3 linemen in the first round in the last 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 We've drafted 3 linemen in the first round in the last 3 years. I would give the front office a mulligan on the drafting of Mike Williams at OT. No one could have predicted that he would lose his desire or have mental health issues which affected his motivation to play. But bypassing a stud DT such as Ngata for a safety in Whitner, in hindsight, was a big mistake. The Whitner pick would have had more value if a defensive line could have been developed to pressure the qb and give the DBs more opportunities to make plays. What has hurt this team is the philosophy of having lighter and quicker interior linemen on defense, which the Bears had under Jauron when he was in Chicago. That approach worked with the Bears because they had a number of all-stars on the defensive unit to compensate for the lack of bulk. The drafting of Losman and McCargo set the team back not only because they didn't work out as expected, but also because the team used precious draft picks to move back into the draft to acquire these players. The accumulated miscalculations in drafting players has been very damaging, as the record clearly demonstrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I would give the front office a mulligan on the drafting of Mike Williams at OT. No one could have predicted that he would lose his desire or have mental health issues which affected his motivation to play. But bypassing a stud DT such as Ngata for a safety in Whitner, in hindsight, was a big mistake. The Whitner pick would have had more value if a defensive line could have been developed to pressure the qb and give the DBs more opportunities to make plays. What has hurt this team is the philosophy of having lighter and quicker interior linemen on defense, which the Bears had under Jauron when he was in Chicago. That approach worked with the Bears because they had a number of all-stars on the defensive unit to compensate for the lack of bulk. The drafting of Losman and McCargo set the team back not only because they didn't work out as expected, but also because the team used precious draft picks to move back into the draft to acquire these players. The accumulated miscalculations in drafting players has been very damaging, as the record clearly demonstrates. Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were "light and quick"? Otherwise agree with your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 We are saying all this because Maybin is not in camp......if Byrd ends up being a playmaking safety this will all be forgotten.......it is going to take a while to rebiuld these lines. I have been critical of the excessive drafting of DBs by this inept front office. But after reading about Byrd the more I understood why they took him. He was one of the best instinctive and playmaking DBs in the draft. There was no secret about his talent. One team which coveted him was San Francisco, which drafted after us. They were poised to take him when we snatched him. They then traded their pick for another pick. In my opinion, the best pick the Bills made was Wood. He is going to be an anchor lineman right from the start. Levitre is another rugged player who will take a little longer to develop, but he will also come around. The trade of Peters reverberated throughout the line. The problem I had with the trade is not that they traded him as much as they didn't have a fallback position once the trade was made. Instead of replacing him with another player they ended up completely shuffling the line. I would have rather picked up a veteran free agent or even risked the inexperienced Bell at the LT position and kept Walker at RT, where he is better suited. The Bills are going to struggle once again because both lines are presently below par. Anyone who thinks this team is a playoff team is deceiving himsel. There is a lot of work to do to upgrade the trenches to make this team competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were "light and quick"? Otherwise agree with your post. I won't speak on TED but Keith Traylor is quicker than thin sh1t through a tall Swede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gflande1 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Wouldnt it be easier to list the players that stay after this season? Honestly, theres not a lot that would be starters on one of the "contending" teams. Really, how many can you list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were "light and quick"? Otherwise agree with your post. How far back are you going with Washington and Traylor? Donahoe let Pat Williams go. He played at an all pro level for us and has continued to play at that same superlative level for the Vikings since his departure. He not only stopped the run but more importantly he provided pressure up the middle, We haven't seen that interior pressure since his departure. Under the Levy and Jauron regime they changed their defensive philosophy to a lighter and quicker line. That is the style of defense Jauron had in Chicago. Jauron's philosophy seems to accentuate the players behind the front line. The majority of our draft picks are defensive backfield players. It seems to me that the more successful teams put their resources in upgrading the defensive front line to support the DBs. The Giants were able to beat the talented Patriots in the SB by putting exceptional defensive pressure from the line. Even when the Giants had a well established line they continued through the draft to add to their already accomplished line. It worked out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Wouldnt it be easier to list the players that stay after this season? Honestly, theres not a lot that would be starters on one of the "contending" teams. Really, how many can you list? TO. Evans. Wood TBD. McGee. Stroud. 4 going on 5 would be starting for most teams in the league. Anyone else? Good question maybe deserves its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 How far back are you going with Washington and Traylor? Donahoe let Pat Williams go. He played at an all pro level for us and has continued to play at that same superlative level for the Vikings since his departure. He not only stopped the run but more importantly he provided pressure up the middle, We haven't seen that interior pressure since his departure. Under the Levy and Jauron regime they changed their defensive philosophy to a lighter and quicker line. That is the style of defense Jauron had in Chicago. Jauron's philosophy seems to accentuate the players behind the front line. The majority of our draft picks are defensive backfield players. It seems to me that the more successful teams put their resources in upgrading the defensive front line to support the DBs. The Giants were able to beat the talented Patriots in the SB by putting exceptional defensive pressure from the line. Even when the Giants had a well established line they continued through the draft to add to their already accomplished line. It worked out for them. Jauron was in Chicago from 99-03. I was referencing the 2001 team. The Jauron team that went 13-3. Their Dline was Re- Phillip Daniles Dt- Keith Traylor Dt- Ted Washington Le- Bryan Robinson. The lightest guy on that dline was Phillip Daniels at about 280 lbs. Otherwise we're talking about over 700lbs alone between Man Mountain Ted and Keith Immovable Traylor. The 01 bears had players at every level, but even Urlacher himself would tell you it started upfront with Washington and Traylor. Now maybe this was by complete accident and I'm missing something about Jaurons Chicago philosphy, and having Big Ted and Traylor was a case of even the sun shining on a donkeys ass, or Jauron had a moment of clarity where he realized "If you have a great dline it's not that hard to win in the NFL." Even when Jauron was with Detroit. The Lions had Shaun Rogers. Even here the Bills mixed and matched for awhile until they came away trading for Stroud. The light and quick aka the tampa 2 rage didn't really come into play in Chicago until Lovie Smith took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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