Okay, It's time to...

[The Dean]

The assertion that Mr. Weo is a Pats fan is a wildly inaccurate statement, and is supported by nothing he has written. At some point, I get tired of hearing baseless, fact-free accusations repeated over and over again. And I come to the realization that the people making those accusations don't actually care about their veracity; only about whether they are believed.

 

Sometimes people tell lies in order to discredit those with whom they disagree. This is one of those cases.

 

 

I don't know that WEO is a Pats* fan, but I also don't know that he isn't one.

[The Dean]

DEAN! DEAN! oh little Deany!

You have been on here all day starting crap with everyone! Go give your Bruce Smith Doll falatio and leave everyone alone. The crap you say is really uncalled for. You should look at yourself when you call someone a troll!

 

 

Um...how was that post an attack? I asked EA a question. Based on his answer, he believes his statement, but I don't think he knows it to be a fact.

[Orton's Arm]

I haven't read every one of his posts but those I have read all fall into the "Pats=Good/Bills=Bad" category which when added to his tendancy to jump into the middle of other conversations for the sole purpose of defending the Cheatriots*, Biily BellyCheat*, and all things associated with either, lead me to the conclusion that he is in fact a Cheatriots Troll of the first order.

 

I've been wrong before, however, so if you can point me to any of his posts where he actually praises the Bills and smacks down on the Cheatriots* I'll consider revising my opinion...

I've seen Mr. Weo defend the Patriots against inaccurate or unsubstantiated accusations; just as he would disagree with inaccurate posts that had nothing to do with the Patriots or the Bills. I haven't seen him defend the Patriots or their players against legitimate accusations. If you have, please point me to those posts.

 

He almost certainly believes the Patriots are currently a better-run franchise than the Bills. The win/loss record bears out that belief. Unlike the Senator, Mr. Weo does not expect the Bills to suddenly jump from three consecutive years of 7-9 to 19-0. But the fact that the Senator is more optimistic than Mr. Weo does not make him more of a fan. A lot of longtime Bills fans have had some . . . less than completely positive experiences with this franchise. That kind of experience tends to lead to more moderated expectations.

 

But there's a huge difference between expecting negative things for one's team over the near term, and hoping for them. If you can show me a post in which Mr. Weo has hoped for bad things for the Bills, I'll stand corrected. Frankly, I don't think such posts exist.

[RI Bills Fan]

I've seen Mr. Weo defend the Patriots against inaccurate or unsubstantiated accusations; just as he would disagree with inaccurate posts that had nothing to do with the Patriots or the Bills. I haven't seen him defend the Patriots or their players against legitimate accusations. If you have, please point me to those posts.

 

He almost certainly believes the Patriots are currently a better-run franchise than the Bills. The win/loss record bears out that belief. Unlike the Senator, Mr. Weo does not expect the Bills to suddenly jump from three consecutive years of 7-9 to 19-0. But the fact that the Senator is more optimistic than Mr. Weo does not make him more of a fan. A lot of longtime Bills fans have had some . . . less than completely positive experiences with this franchise. That kind of experience tends to lead to more moderated expectations.

 

But there's a huge difference between expecting negative things for one's team over the near term, and hoping for them. If you can show me a post in which Mr. Weo has hoped for bad things for the Bills, I'll stand corrected. Frankly, I don't think such posts exist.

 

Your counter-argument falls a little short of the mark, I ask for any positive post about the Bills and you counter by saying he never roots for Total Bills Failure...

 

How does that lift him above the level of Billistic, or zazzie?

[Orton's Arm]

Your counter-argument falls a little short of the mark, I ask for any positive post about the Bills and you counter by saying he never roots for Total Bills Failure...

That is substantially different from what I actually contended.

How does that lift him above the level of Billistic, or zazzie?

 

I'm not familiar with the posters you've mentioned; so I won't attempt to compare Mr. Weo to them. All I can say is that the posts I've read from Mr. Weo sounded like they're from someone who hopes for the best for the Bills, but realizes those hopes may not come to fruition over the short term.

[BillsVet]

He almost certainly believes the Patriots are currently a better-run franchise than the Bills. The win/loss record bears out that belief. Unlike the Senator, Mr. Weo does not expect the Bills to suddenly jump from three consecutive years of 7-9 to 19-0. But the fact that the Senator is more optimistic than Mr. Weo does not make him more of a fan. A lot of longtime Bills fans have had some . . . less than completely positive experiences with this franchise. That kind of experience tends to lead to more moderated expectations.

 

This is the heart of the issue for me. Teams with capable and savvy front office management like IND, PIT, NYG, and yes, even NE, always seem to be in the playoffs. Meanwhile, clubs such as BUF, OAK, CIN, and DET aren't.

 

The Bills have not changed many of the same people who were around when TD was there-four seasons ago. And yet, a few players are added, a new coach comes in, and voila, we're led to believe change has taken place and success is imminent. In fact, it's still the same people calling the shots.

 

Alas, the posters who don't go for this re-wrapping are attacked for not being positive enough. I'm one of them and I simply don't care. If the Bills had a track record of making the playoffs every other year or getting to a conference title game I wouldn't be as pessimistic. Then again, most fans aren't paying attention to how other clubs are run, and why they're successful. Nine years without a playoff appearance will make fans who demand accountability like that.

[RI Bills Fan]

The Legions of Negative Nancy Posters are bad enough, but at least they're (for the most part) Bills Fans.

 

They want to see the Bills Win and express their frustrations with the long playoff drought by whining and bitching about anything and everything; they're annoying but (barely) tolerable.

 

But do we really have to put up with this latest invasion of Cheatriot* Fangirls and Outright Trolls?

 

I seriously doubt any other board would tolerate Billistic, Mr WEO, jws9999, 4th&1, Sparticus, and their ilk for more than a few posts, yet here they're allowed to hang around and be a$$holes seemingly forever.

 

WHY?

 

 

This is the heart of the issue for me. Teams with capable and savvy front office management like IND, PIT, NYG, and yes, even NE, always seem to be in the playoffs. Meanwhile, clubs such as BUF, OAK, CIN, and DET aren't.

 

The Bills have not changed many of the same people who were around when TD was there-four seasons ago. And yet, a few players are added, a new coach comes in, and voila, we're led to believe change has taken place and success is imminent. In fact, it's still the same people calling the shots.

 

Alas, the posters who don't go for this re-wrapping are attacked for not being positive enough. I'm one of them and I simply don't care. If the Bills had a track record of making the playoffs every other year or getting to a conference title game I wouldn't be as pessimistic. Then again, most fans aren't paying attention to how other clubs are run, and why they're successful. Nine years without a playoff appearance will make fans who demand accountability like that.

 

 

Read my original Post, this thread isn't about you "Negative Nancy" types, I don't understand how you can follow a team that you don't BILLieve in, but at the end of the day you want what I want, a Bills Super Bowl Win. I'm just having an easier time waiting for that to happen.

 

I didn't attack anyone for not being positive enough... I attacked Trolls for being Trolls. And someone who doesn't understand the simple concept that this is a Buffalo Bills Message Board and the Cheatriots* are not going to be treated "fairly" here (just like the Bills are not going to be treated "fairly" on a Cheaters* Board) sets himself up for being accused of being a troll with his continued defense of those slimy pukes.

[BillsVet]

Read my original Post, this thread isn't about you "Negative Nancy" types, I don't understand how you can follow a team that you don't BILLieve in, but at the end of the day you want what I want, a Bills Super Bowl Win. I'm just having an easier time waiting for that to happen.

 

I didn't attack anyone for not being positive enough... I attacked Trolls for being Trolls. And someone who doesn't understand the simple concept that this is a Buffalo Bills Message Board and the Cheatriots* are not going to be treated "fairly" here (just like the Bills are not going to be treated "fairly" on a Cheaters* Board) sets himself up for being accused of being a troll with his continued defense of those slimy pukes.

 

I've had season tickets since 2007, the first season after I got out of the Army. For the record, I'm not alleging that going to games makes one a bigger fan, but I do know that seeing them lose in person is hard to take. The DAL and CLE MNF games, the 2007 DEN Opener, the losses last year to SF, et al. have made it challenging as a Bills fan. I don't need a SB win each season, but I've seen more symbolism than substance in recent years. At some point the talk needs to end and the team needs to get into the playoffs. I've followed the team since '88, but I'm not going to rubber stamp all of their moves and buy into the hype this team has been selling for many years. There is no substitute for victory.

 

I've only been around for 2.5 years now on TBD. And I'd agree the caliber of posters has gone steadily down hill in that time. At the same time, I've seen some solid posters depart and I have to assume it's the personal attacks. Resorting to name calling is unacceptable. Still, alleging someone is a troll because they don't blindly agree with everything the front office does is not enough. Accusations are serious enough and not having proof is wrong.

[RI Bills Fan]

I've had season tickets since 2007, the first season after I got out of the Army. For the record, I'm not alleging that going to games makes one a bigger fan, but I do know that seeing them lose in person is hard to take. The DAL and CLE MNF games, the 2007 DEN Opener, the losses last year to SF, et al. have made it challenging as a Bills fan. I don't need a SB win each season, but I've seen more symbolism than substance in recent years. At some point the talk needs to end and the team needs to get into the playoffs. I've followed the team since '88, but I'm not going to rubber stamp all of their moves and buy into the hype this team has been selling for many years. There is no substitute for victory.

 

I've only been around for 2.5 years now on TBD. And I'd agree the caliber of posters has gone steadily down hill in that time. At the same time, I've seen some solid posters depart and I have to assume it's the personal attacks. Resorting to name calling is unacceptable. Still, alleging someone is a troll because they don't blindly agree with everything the front office does is not enough. Accusations are serious enough and not having proof is wrong.

 

I've been a Bills Fan since the mid 60's. I remember the championship teams. I also remember far leaner years than we've had lately. 1-13, 2-14, are a lot harder to take than 7-9, So Yeah, been there, but I see a light at the end of the tunnel, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, especially when we finally have a QB and some weapons.

 

I Never Alledged that someone was a troll because they don't blindly agree with everything the Bills FO does. I call people who come here come here talking about how great the Cheatriots* are Trolls.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

RI Bills Fan Aug 2 2009, 02:37 PM

The Legions of Negative Nancy Posters are bad enough, but at least they're (for the most part) Bills Fans.

 

They want to see the Bills Win and express their frustrations with the long playoff drought by whining and bitching about anything and everything; they're annoying but (barely) tolerable.

 

But do we really have to put up with this latest invasion of Cheatriot* Fangirls and Outright Trolls?

 

I seriously doubt any other board would tolerate Billistic, Mr WEO, jws9999, 4th&1, Sparticus, and their ilk for more than a few posts, yet here they're allowed to hang around and be a$$holes seemingly forever.

 

(RI Bills Fan)How does that lift him above the level of Billistic, or zazzie?

RI, you have called out two posters in Spartacus and Zazie that in my experience do not fall into the category of Patsy trolls. I could be wrong (I'm not going to go back and read every post in their history) but they both come across as genuine Bills fans that are frustrated with the incompetence of the Bills FO and head coach.

[BillsVet]

I've been a Bills Fan since the mid 60's. I remember the championship teams. I also remember far leaner years than we've had lately. 1-13, 2-14, are a lot harder to take than 7-9, So Yeah, been there, but I see a light at the end of the tunnel, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, especially when we finally have a QB and some weapons.

 

I Never Alledged that someone was a troll becaust they don't blindly agree with everything the Bills FO does. I call people who come here come here talking about how great the Cheatriots* are Trolls.

 

Record wise, Bills history shows there were some bad teams in the late sixties, seventies, and mid eighties. The difference is back then, I'm sure fans knew the teams weren't good going into the season. Now, we have teams with talent that somehow continue to ride the line of mediocrity with the same front office and HC. It's one thing to be bad and know it. But knowing there's talent there and still falling short of .500 remains maddening to me.

[RI Bills Fan]

RI, you have called out two posters in Spartacus and Zazie that in my experience do not fall into the category of Patsy trolls. I could be wrong (I'm not going to go back and read every post in their history) but they both come across as genuine Bills fans that are frustrated with the incompetence of the Bills FO and head coach.

 

There is a fine line between being a "Negative Nancy" and Being a Troll. It is often difficult to distinguish between the two.

 

In my mind a Bills Fan can be disgusted with the coach and/or the front office and/or certain players on the team BUT! There has to be something that the fan DOES LIKE!

 

Maybe it's a single player, the Chroise, for example...

 

Or the Uniforms...

 

Or the equipment manager! SOMETHING!

 

I just can't imagine following a team that I hated everything about!

 

SO! If I were to post on the board of a team like that, that I hated absolutely everything about, Say the Cheatriots* or the Dull-Fins, I would never have anything good to say about anything or anyone associated with that team and I'd always be bringing up references to how much better run, better coached, and how much better the players on my favorite team, the Bills, were than the team who's board I was posting on were, why then I would be a TROLL!

 

So by definition, if you hate everything about the Bills and the only reason you come here is to tell everyone how bad the Bills are, and how much better team X is, what are you? A frustrated Bills Fan or...

[RI Bills Fan]

Record wise, Bills history shows there were some bad teams in the late sixties, seventies, and mid eighties. The difference is back then, I'm sure fans knew the teams weren't good going into the season. Now, we have teams with talent that somehow continue to ride the line of mediocrity with the same front office and HC. It's one thing to be bad and know it. But knowing there's talent there and still falling short of .500 remains maddening to me.

 

Two Names destroy your argument. Stew Barber & Harvey Johnson.

 

 

I agree that it's maddening but I believe that Edwards is going to have a break-out year this year. And I'm of the opinion that Great QB's make Great Coaches, not the other way around. The two best examples of that theory are Marv Levy and Billy BellyCheat. Without Brady and Kelly those two are career losers.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

There is a fine line between being a "Negative Nancy" and Being a Troll. It is often difficult to distinguish between the two.

 

In my mind a Bills Fan can be disgusted with the coach and/or the front office and/or certain players on the team BUT! There has to be something that the fan DOES LIKE!

 

Maybe it's a single player, the Chroise, for example...

 

Or the Uniforms...

 

Or the equipment manager! SOMETHING!

 

I just can't imagine following a team that I hated everything about!

 

SO! If I were to post on the board of a team like that, that I hated absolutely everything about, Say the Cheatriots* or the Dull-Fins, I would never have anything good to say about anything or anyone associated with that team and I'd always be bringing up references to how much better run, better coached, and how much better the players on my favorite team, the Bills, were than the team who's board I was posting on were, why then I would be a TROLL!

 

So by definition, if you hate everything about the Bills and the only reason you come here is to tell everyone how bad the Bills are, and how much better team X is, what are you? A frustrated Bills Fan or...

 

I understand where you are coming from. If someone is a genuine troll they should be (and usually are) weeded out. I also can't imagine why a fan of another team would invest a lot of time on an other's message board. That doesn't change the fact that frustrated Bills fans should have a right to vent just as optimistic fans can carry on in blissful glee.

[Dan]

There is a fine line between being a "Negative Nancy" and Being a Troll. It is often difficult to distinguish between the two.

 

In my mind a Bills Fan can be disgusted with the coach and/or the front office and/or certain players on the team BUT! There has to be something that the fan DOES LIKE!

 

Maybe it's a single player, the Chroise, for example...

 

Or the Uniforms...

 

Or the equipment manager! SOMETHING!

 

I just can't imagine following a team that I hated everything about!

 

SO! If I were to post on the board of a team like that, that I hated absolutely everything about, Say the Cheatriots* or the Dull-Fins, I would never have anything good to say about anything or anyone associated with that team and I'd always be bringing up references to how much better run, better coached, and how much better the players on my favorite team, the Bills, were than the team who's board I was posting on were, why then I would be a TROLL!

 

So by definition, if you hate everything about the Bills and the only reason you come here is to tell everyone how bad the Bills are, and how much better team X is, what are you? A frustrated Bills Fan or...

The Chroise does Rock!

[keepthefaith]

use ignore. it works for me

 

I might be on everyone's ignore list. Bad move to use ingore IMO. That only filters a lot of the entertainment on the board.

[thewildrabbit]

RI, you have called out two posters in Spartacus and Zazie that in my experience do not fall into the category of Patsy trolls. I could be wrong (I'm not going to go back and read every post in their history) but they both come across as genuine Bills fans that are frustrated with the incompetence of the Bills FO and head coach.(& coaching staff) FIXED

Couldn't have said it better.

 

The only NFL team I root for each week during the NFL season is the Buffalo Bills and 7-9 doesn't make me very happy, and never will.

 

The Bills have been rebuilding for 10 years because the owner keeps trying to find a head coach that will work for wages at the bottom of the wage scale. The Bills also have difficulty bringing in players because of the team history of Ralph Wilson's frugality.

 

Last season the Bills made an offer for future HoF tight end Tony Gonzalez of the KC Chiefs,they accepted but he turned down the offer and remained in KC for whatever reason.

 

That one move showed me that the Bills FO have the right frame of mind in trying to build a winning team as Gonzalez would have given Trent Edwards an unbelievable receiver in a position that was one of their weakest. So they recognize the fact that they desperately needed to improve the receiving corp. Gonzalez might have changed the outcome of last years 7-9 finish to a winning record, perhaps even a playoff spot,I believe that.

 

So, as bad as the team played in certain areas last season they are only a few positions away from becoming a very good team.

 

Then this season they managed to trade away their only pro bowl player and not even try to replace him in free agency or the draft, which is puzzling. Then they completely revamp the entire O line and change every position, losing all continuity. That stated, how can anyone predict a bright year for the Bills after a complete O line rebuild? Not to mention, losing Greer-Crowell-Peters and the Bills still lack a good tight end and fullback.

 

Then there is the fact that DJ will only hire experienced defensive coaches and promotes offensive coaches from within the team,like he is afraid to bring in a bright offensive mind.

 

I see changes on the team that I don't approve of and come to this forum to vent my frustration about those changes, and because I think the Bills will have difficulty even making 7-9 this season from those changes.

[jax bill backer]

Wow im suprised dean didnt call me out

[RI Bills Fan]

I understand where you are coming from. If someone is a genuine troll they should be (and usually are) weeded out. I also can't imagine why a fan of another team would invest a lot of time on an other's message board. That doesn't change the fact that frustrated Bills fans should have a right to vent just as optimistic fans can carry on in blissful glee.

 

I'm not sure what you are arguing for here. You want to be frustrated, go ahead! You want to post that you're frustrated by whatever it is that is frustrating you, go ahead!

 

But if you want to piss in my cornflakes because I see things differently than you, now you're approaching Troll Territory.

 

A Frustrated Fan starts a thread bitching and whining about what an idiot Dick Jauron is so that he and other people can jump in and express their own frustrations, that's OK, IMO.

 

A Troll jumps into a thread about Lee Evans where several fans are discussing how many TD's they think #83 will score this year, and starts ragging on all of the F.O. Cheerleaders who don't share his pessimistic views of the upcoming season. That's BS, IMO!

 

There is a difference.

[RI Bills Fan]

Couldn't have said it better.

 

The only NFL team I root for each week during the NFL season is the Buffalo Bills and 7-9 doesn't make me very happy, and never will.

 

The Bills have been rebuilding for 10 years because the owner keeps trying to find a head coach that will work for wages at the bottom of the wage scale. The Bills also have difficulty bringing in players because of the team history of Ralph Wilson's frugality.

 

Last season the Bills made an offer for future HoF tight end Tony Gonzalez of the KC Chiefs,they accepted but he turned down the offer and remained in KC for whatever reason.

 

That one move showed me that the Bills FO have the right frame of mind in trying to build a winning team as Gonzalez would have given Trent Edwards an unbelievable receiver in a position that was one of their weakest. So they recognize the fact that they desperately needed to improve the receiving corp. Gonzalez might have changed the outcome of last years 7-9 finish to a winning record, perhaps even a playoff spot,I believe that.

 

So, as bad as the team played in certain areas last season they as only a few positions away from becoming a very good team.

 

Then this season they managed to trade away their only pro bowl player and not even try to replace him in free agency or the draft, which is puzzling. Then they completely revamp the entire O line and change every position, losing all continuity. That stated, how can anyone predict a bright year for the Bills after a complete O line rebuild? Not to mention, losing Greer-Crowell-Peters and the Bills still lack a good tight end and fullback.

 

Then there is the fact that DJ will only hire experienced defensive coaches and promotes offensive coaches from within the team,like he is afraid to bring in a bright offensive mind.

 

I see changes on the team that I don't approve of and come to this forum to vent my frustration about those changes, and because I think the Bills will have difficulty even making 7-9 this season from those changes.

 

I have no clue what any of that has to do with the subject of this thread, which is getting rid of Trolls.

 

But don't let that stop you...