TheChimp Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Peters went to his second straight Pro Bowl because opposing coaches and players consider him one of the league's best. ~Graham I don't buy that. I think they did it just to mess with the Bills because it was so easy. Voting Peters to the Pro Bowl ASSURED another holdout on his part, or at the very least more bad blood between him and his owner. And that's just too much fun to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 ~Graham I don't buy that. I think they did it just to mess with the Bills because it was so easy. Voting Peters to the Pro Bowl ASSURED another holdout on his part, or at the very least more bad blood between him and his owner. And that's just too much fun to pass up. You realize that if this is true, then a majority of current NFL players would have to have an intense dislike for the Buffalo Bills franchise. Why? What would fuel such hatred? Buffalo's inferiority complex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 ~Graham I don't buy that. I think they did it just to mess with the Bills because it was so easy. Voting Peters to the Pro Bowl ASSURED another holdout on his part, or at the very least more bad blood between him and his owner. And that's just too much fun to pass up. You are getting warm.......it was a UNION play. The Union guys give a few names for everyone to vote in. Peters was key because he ends up looking correct in going against management. The Union sends a message, "you want to play hardball and underpay one of your top guys? Then we'll make sure you look like fools, push him through the Pro Bowl again, and force you to pay the man." It softens up management for the next battle a bit. No matter what team it is, even if they are correct in wanting a player to honor a contract.....union ball don't work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 JP was an overpaid fat POS. I, for one, am glad he's gone......although it was really fun booing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 You are getting warm.......it was a UNION play. Don't look now, but the black helicopters are circling your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 JP was an overpaid fat POS. I, for one, am glad he's gone......although it was really fun booing him. I will admit, I have booed twice at a Bills game. Once when Mularkey botched a series at the end of a half. The other time last year when Peters whiffed and gave up sacks on 2 straight plays. I was angry....and I don't care enough about sports to get angry anymore. That should be a barometer of how much Bills fans are disgusted by someone who thinks they are the best, but doesn't give any effort. Although, it hasn't quite rubbed off on the Sabres "fans" yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Don't look now, but the black helicopters are circling your house. You must be 11 years old to not understand the Union does what is in the best interests of a Union. Or you are in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 You are getting warm.......it was a UNION play. The Union guys give a few names for everyone to vote in. Peters was key because he ends up looking correct in going against management. The Union sends a message, "you want to play hardball and underpay one of your top guys? Then we'll make sure you look like fools, push him through the Pro Bowl again, and force you to pay the man." It softens up management for the next battle a bit. No matter what team it is, even if they are correct in wanting a player to honor a contract.....union ball don't work that way. The union angle is a lot more plausible than the "other teams trying to screw the Bills" angle. And when it comes to the coaches, they recognized Peters' name, after his 2007 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 No, but if you read the articles from when those guys were in their primes, they talk about how rare it was that they actually gave up a sack. I remember reading an article that stated Walter Jones gave up 0 sacks in a season multiple times. I'll try to find it. 18 LTs gave up less than 5 sacks last year, so i don't think it's a stretch to say those guys didn't give up 11.5 in their primes. You do understand that sacks allowed is not an official stat? I tried a little last night and couldn't find a comprehensive year-by-year ranking, but it probably exists somewhere. I recall one of the very top LTs being credited for quite a few sacks, one season, but can't remember which one. I also don't think any of the LTs you mention missed all the OTAs/minicamp/training camp and preseason. While it may have been Peters' choice, it had to have made a huge difference in his game. And you need to consider last year was only Peter's 2nd full year at the position. He was still learning, not a vet who has played the position for years. Finally, you comment that Peters will never be a top NFL LT, but then name 3 guys he won't surpass. Ogden is retired and Pace is well past his prime. You might want to concentrate on guys who are in the league, and relevant to make that point. I'm not suggesting Peters will definitely be one of the very best LTs in the league, but you ignore too much in your analysis where you make the statement he definitely won't be. I think Peters is a very talented young LT who can probably be as good as he wants to be. Will he put in the work to be one of the best? That remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 You do understand that sacks allowed is not an official stat? I tried a little last night and couldn't find a comprehensive year-by-year ranking, but it probably exists somewhere. I recall one of the very top LTs being credited for quite a few sacks, one season, but can't remember which one. I also don't think any of the LTs you mention missed all the OTAs/minicamp/training camp and preseason. While it may have been Peters' choice, it had to have made a huge difference in his game. And you need to consider last year was only Peter's 2nd full year at the position. He was still learning, not a vet who has played the position for years. Finally, you comment that Peters will never be a top NFL LT, but then name 3 guys he won't surpass. Ogden is retired and Pace is well past his prime. You might want to concentrate on guys who are in the league, and relevant to make that point. I'm not suggesting Peters will definitely be one of the very best LTs in the league, but you ignore too much in your analysis where you make the statement he definitely won't be. I think Peters is a very talented young LT who can probably be as good as he wants to be. Will he put in the work to be one of the best? That remains to be seen. Peters will never surpass what those guys did in their primes. Jones held out for 3 consecutive seasons, only reporting at the start of the regular season. And guess what? Per John Clayton, Walter Jones didn't even allow a sack in one of those years. Peters will never be a top LT because he doesn't have the work ethic to be one, you have to be a great run blocker AND a great pass blocker. Ryan Clady, a 2nd year LT, is already a top 2-3 guy. The top LTs in the league are punishing run blockers, and only give up 1-3 sacks a year. If you don't play hard when you want more money, what's to stop you from slacking off when you have the money? Say what you want about his talent, but if you don't have effort, you can't be a great player. People rarely change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Peters will never surpass what those guys did in their primes. Jones held out for 3 consecutive seasons, only reporting at the start of the regular season. And guess what? Per John Clayton, Walter Jones didn't even allow a sack in one of those years. Peters will never be a top LT because he doesn't have the work ethic to be one, you have to be a great run blocker AND a great pass blocker. Ryan Clady, a 2nd year LT, is already a top 2-3 guy. The top LTs in the league are punishing run blockers, and only give up 1-3 sacks a year. I didn't realize that Jones would routinely miss training camp and pre-season, yet still return to dominate from the first snap of the first game of the season. Pretty impressive. If Peters had done that, I'd have had no problem with the Bills making him the highest-paid LT this past off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Peters will never surpass what those guys did in their primes. Jones held out for 3 consecutive seasons, only reporting at the start of the regular season. And guess what? Per John Clayton, Walter Jones didn't even allow a sack in one of those years. Peters will never be a top LT because he doesn't have the work ethic to be one, you have to be a great run blocker AND a great pass blocker. Ryan Clady, a 2nd year LT, is already a top 2-3 guy. The top LTs in the league are punishing run blockers, and only give up 1-3 sacks a year. If you don't play hard when you want more money, what's to stop you from slacking off when you have the money? Say what you want about his talent, but if you don't have effort, you can't be a great player. People rarely change. You seem very closed minded about this, as if people can't change their behavior. Peters worked like hell for the Bills until last year. It's how he became a starting LT when he was an undrafted TE. Maybe he returns to that commitment. To simply say "he won't" sounds like sour grapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 You seem very closed minded about this, as if people can't change their behavior. Peters worked like hell for the Bills until last year. It's how he became a starting LT when he was an undrafted TE. Maybe he returns to that commitment. To simply say "he won't" sounds like sour grapes. It's pretty easy to say he won't be a top 2-3 LT. Simply because the top 2-3 LTs will be in the HOF, and Peters is a very,very far cry from that. I would like to see an instance where a player dogged it for a whole season, and then came back to have a great career. If Peters truly was a top LT, his season would have been more like Walter Jones'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Pass protection is a high priority when protecting the QB's blind side and Peters was the worst LT in the league at that. Sorry, but a LT is supposed to try to prevent sacks...not just wave people past I am too lazy right now to look it up, but if you have been reading this board you will know that someone else already did an analysis of this. The sacks charged against him last year were inflated. The Bills themselves (according to media reports) also concluded the same thing. The easiest way to determine the worth of JP is compare what happened in the Giant game at the end of 2007 before and after he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I am too lazy right now to look it up, but if you have been reading this board you will know that someone else already did an analysis of this. The sacks charged against him last year were inflated. The Bills themselves (according to media reports) also concluded the same thing. The easiest way to determne the worth of JP is compare what happened in the Giant game at the end of 2007 before and after he got hurt. And everyone else's sacks aren't inflated? If Peters only gave up 7, then chances the other players in the NFL were credited with too many. That leaves him last, yet again. That analysis means NOTHING unless it is done for everyone on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 here's my (awesome) take -- i think my boy Bill in NYC might smack the back of my head a lil on this, but ultimately will agree. you don't need super athletes to play LT or OL in general. it helps, and they certainly have to have a rare set of tools (length, height, size, feet, strength, etc.) -- but you don't need athletic freaks who can do things that other great athletes just can't do. you need that on the D line. the reason for that is the super freaks show their talent (bruce smith, kearse, etc) on individual plays that you hope are game changing. you want the disruptive rush or hit that knocks the ball loose. On the oline, you want CONSISTENCY above all else. if i have a guy who never blows anyone off the line once, but gets in his mans face, plays hard and smart, and gets his assignment almost every time, then i want 4 more and will ride them deep into the playoffs. now a truly great lt (jones, munoz) combines the super talent with football smarts, effort, nastyness, consistency, hustle, a love of the game, dedication, and all that. the thing is, lots of very good olines have zero super star talents, but everyone plays so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. jason peters is a super freak athlete. he is like the gilbert brown of the oline. he has freakish ability and quicks, and nastiness. the thing is he is dumb, lazy, does not love the game, and imo is not a natural football guy in terms of his mentality and attitude. i watched every single sack and close to sack of the bills last year on the nfl replay re cutter. he got destroyed one on one vs OLBs lines up wide at least 12 times in the season (and it seems like for half of porters sacks -- leading to 2 division losses). he blows guys away enough of the time, but then sucks ass often enough to blow drives and cause turnovers. add in that he quit on us (the worst thing a guy can do, knock vick and owens all you want, they always bring max effort). i want nasty, smart, aggressive, hungry, football guys on my oline. j peters only brings the nasty and aggressive part, but lacks all the rest. the same way the giants running game can get super charged by subtracting barber, our o line can become the tough mauling unit we all want without peters. go mutha effing bills baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 And everyone else's sacks aren't inflated? Probably not. That's the point. Established stars are less likely to be credited with the sack. Young guys probably get dinged more. Add to that the bad feelings many had with Peters, and it suggest his figure might be manufactured. As far as I can tell, there is no definitive objective standard for an allowed sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Probably not. That's the point. Established stars are less likely to be credited with the sack. Young guys probably get dinged more. Add to that the bad feelings many had with Peters, and it suggest his figure might be manufactured. As far as I can tell, there is no definitive objective standard for an allowed sack. According to whom? Is Ryan Clady an established star now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 According to whom? Is Ryan Clady an established star now? Never mind, you are obviously caught in a loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Never mind, you are obviously caught in a loop. You're the one who things the sacks allowed numbers are a conspiracy against Jason Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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