Paco Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Whatever you say Tom. I make plenty of sense, Steve understood my point (doesn't agree, but understood) right away. 103619[/snapback] There's a testimony for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Whatever you say Tom. I make plenty of sense, Steve understood my point (doesn't agree, but understood) right away. 103619[/snapback] Oh that's a good one to validate yourself against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Then you've reversed your previous position on this, and I'm very happy to hear this. A week ago you were upset because our president wasn't providing enough jobs for people. I'm glad to hear you don't believe that nonsense anymore and respect that each person needs to hold themselves personally responsible for their actions and it is not the responsibility of the government to provide jobs to the unemployed...particularly when there are plenty of jobs available. Good job, BF. Good job. 103612[/snapback] I NEVER said people shouldn't be held accountable for getting a job. I said more jobs need to be provided by our government so people are able to get them. If you have 10 people that are unemployed welders, and there are only 5 jobs as a welder open, that creates a bit of a problem doesn't it Paco? So yes, I expect the government to create more jobs, which the Bush administration is not doing very well (they are making a small ammount of progress, but not enough.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Are you a drinker? Liquor was once banned in this country. It's now legal. Assuming you are a drinker, would you stop drinking if it were banned again tomorrow because the government suddenly decided you can't for whatever reason they wanted to make up? I would assume you would still want to drink. Does that make you a bad person? No. Just because some higher up has put in place a law, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. 103617[/snapback] BF...seriously...go to law school and help this country turn it all around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Whatever you say Tom. I make plenty of sense, Steve understood my point (doesn't agree, but understood) right away. 103619[/snapback] Oh, Steve understood. Steve didn't even understand why the Presidential debates preempted Survivor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 You're not stupid because you disagree with me...lots of people who disagree with me are actually very, very smart, and I respect their opinions highly, even the contradictory ones. You're stupid because you make no !@#$ing sense!!!! I don't know why that's such a difficult concept... ...oh, wait. Yes I do. Because you're !@#$ing stupid!!! 103618[/snapback] LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Oh that's a good one to validate yourself against. 103625[/snapback] It's called personal accountability. I think that's the point I'm trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Then you've reversed your previous position on this, and I'm very happy to hear this. A week ago you were upset because our president wasn't providing enough jobs for people. I'm glad to hear you don't believe that nonsense anymore and respect that each person needs to hold themselves personally responsible for their actions and it is not the responsibility of the government to provide jobs to the unemployed...particularly when there are plenty of jobs available. Good job, BF. Good job. 103612[/snapback] Not to completly change the subject, but I heard an interesting piece of information the other day. I heard that the best panhandlers (aka Bums) can make upwards of $50,000 a year. At first I thought "yeah right", but then I ran the numbers. Every day driving home from work, I on the corner of Okechobee and Military trail, I see a homeless man asking for money. Now, is a pretty busy intersection. Anyway, without fail, every day I see AT LEAST one person give him a dollar or two (if i have a spare buck, I will too, please don't tell me thats stupid of me, that's not the point here). Now, think about it. If 10 people EVERY hour give him a dollar, that's only 1 person every six minutes. In six minutes, 500 cars must pass through this intersection, so 250 each way. I am guessing 1 out of 250 isnt a leap. And this isnt even talking about rush hour. So, lets say he gets $10 every hour that he stands out there. Obviously, he isnt paying taxes, so the guy is making like $14 an hour. That's just under $30k a year. Not bad. This isnt meant to make anyone think one way or the other, Im just now figuring why when people say "Go get a job" maybe some of them would rather not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 BF...seriously...go to law school and help this country turn it all around! 103629[/snapback] I've thought about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Oh, Steve understood. Steve didn't even understand why the Presidential debates preempted Survivor... 103631[/snapback] I understood why - I just didnt particularly care for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Not to completly change the subject, but I heard an interesting piece of information the other day. I heard that the best panhandlers (aka Bums) can make upwards of $50,000 a year. At first I thought "yeah right", but then I ran the numbers. Every day driving home from work, I on the corner of Okechobee and Military trail, I see a homeless man asking for money. Now, is a pretty busy intersection. Anyway, without fail, every day I see AT LEAST one person give him a dollar or two (if i have a spare buck, I will too, please don't tell me thats stupid of me, that's not the point here). Now, think about it. If 10 people EVERY hour give him a dollar, that's only 1 person every six minutes. In six minutes, 500 cars must pass through this intersection, so 250 each way. I am guessing 1 out of 250 isnt a leap. And this isnt even talking about rush hour. So, lets say he gets $10 every hour that he stands out there. Obviously, he isnt paying taxes, so the guy is making like $14 an hour. That's just under $30k a year. Not bad. This isnt meant to make anyone think one way or the other, Im just now figuring why when people say "Go get a job" maybe some of them would rather not. 103636[/snapback] I will give you a good reply, as this is an intelligent post. There was a news story done on this years ago. They were talking with some of the DC and NYC "bums". Back 10 years ago some of these guys admitted they were making upwards of 60K and not paying taxes. Real easy. The window washers in Mahattan made the most, and in fact had "regular" customers. See how enterprising people can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I understood why - I just didnt particularly care for it. 103639[/snapback] I wouldn't even pay him any attention Steve, this guy comes into a conversation midstream and without actually discussing anything will just start into personal attacks for no reason at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 . If you have 10 people that are unemployed welders, and there are only 5 jobs as a welder open, As much as I fear extending this metaphor, the answer is simple. There may only be 5 welders positions out there, but there are also 25 auto mechanics jobs available. The other 5 welders need to learn how to be an auto mechanic. It's not the role of the government to come up with five more welders jobs. It's the role of the individual to adapt to employment demands. You think the government should concentrate on creating jobs for IT administrators given how many of them are out of work? Stay with me, BF. We're almost there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I've thought about it. 103638[/snapback] You need to put this on your resume: Normally I'm insane, but I've had lucid moments when I was merely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I will give you a good reply, as this is an intelligent post. There was a news story done on this years ago. They were talking with some of the DC and NYC "bums". Back 10 years ago some of these guys admitted they were making upwards of 60K and not paying taxes. Real easy. The window washers in Mahattan made the most, and in fact had "regular" customers. See how enterprising people can be. 103642[/snapback] Can you then explain to me how this is any less criminal than someone standing on the same corner dealing drugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Not to completly change the subject, but I heard an interesting piece of information the other day. I heard that the best panhandlers (aka Bums) can make upwards of $50,000 a year. At first I thought "yeah right", but then I ran the numbers. Every day driving home from work, I on the corner of Okechobee and Military trail, I see a homeless man asking for money. Now, is a pretty busy intersection. Anyway, without fail, every day I see AT LEAST one person give him a dollar or two (if i have a spare buck, I will too, please don't tell me thats stupid of me, that's not the point here). Now, think about it. If 10 people EVERY hour give him a dollar, that's only 1 person every six minutes. In six minutes, 500 cars must pass through this intersection, so 250 each way. I am guessing 1 out of 250 isnt a leap. And this isnt even talking about rush hour. So, lets say he gets $10 every hour that he stands out there. Obviously, he isnt paying taxes, so the guy is making like $14 an hour. That's just under $30k a year. Not bad. This isnt meant to make anyone think one way or the other, Im just now figuring why when people say "Go get a job" maybe some of them would rather not. 103636[/snapback] When I lived in the Bay Area, I used to regularly see the same bag lady (actually shopping cart lady) on the sidewalk. All day. Everyday. One day she keeled over. The cops found $250K in her cart in small bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Can you then explain to me how this is any less criminal than someone standing on the same corner dealing drugs? 103650[/snapback] It is illegal to windowwash in NYC now- those people would be arrested. Guilioni changed all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 As much as I fear extending this metaphor, the answer is simple. There may only be 5 welders positions out there, but there are also 25 auto mechanics jobs available. The other 5 welders need to learn how to be an auto mechanic. It's not the role of the government to come up with five more welders jobs. It's the role of the individual to adapt to employment demands. You think the government should concentrate on creating jobs for IT administrators given how many of them are out of work? Stay with me, BF. We're almost there. 103648[/snapback] OK Paco, for someone to learn how to be a mechanic, that costs money. Uusually the unemployed are short of money. Understand where I'm headed here? I can understand your point, but you aren't taking into account normal circumstances that can factor into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Can you then explain to me how this is any less criminal than someone standing on the same corner dealing drugs? 103650[/snapback] Actually they are both crimes. However one is causing a long term drain and possible damage to society. The other is survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 It is illegal to windowwash in NYC now- those people would be arrested. Guilioni changed all that 103655[/snapback] That's good then. In all honesty though, they are just taking money from suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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