BadDad Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Are you talking about Lambert, or Thurlow? And how do you know? 7741[/snapback] I assume he is talking about Thurlow for two reasons. First, Thurlow was awarded the Bronze Star during that action the same as Kerry. Thurlow was supposedly thrown, knocked or fell overboard and was pulled out of the water by Lambert. According to the official report his boat was under fire but he turned it into the enemy and helped to rescue the memebers of the boat that hit the mine. What has a lot of Vets upset is that by attacking Kerry for his service and questioning the validity of his medals, these guys have put into question the validity of medals earned by all Vets, from all wars. The fool Thurlow actually brought into question his own Bronze Star by his statements. If they were true why didn't he say so 35 years ago? All Officers involved in an action were present and reviewed after-action reports and he could have said at the time that there was no hostile fire. He and his reason is that he thought nobady would see the reports. When asked why he thought he got the medal he said that it was because he pulled guys out of the water and saved the boat. Of course Kerry did the exact same thing, but that escapes the idiot. Regardless of what he says they both received the medal for the same thing. Either, they were under fire from the enemy which is supported by eyewitness accounts, and Naval records that have stood for 35 years. Or, they both pulled guys out of the water and saved the boats. Either way this guy cannot have his medal and deny Kerry his. The hipocracy is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Did you read this transcript? or Did you pull an Alan.... Alan, read the next sentence.... 7774[/snapback] He's on tape telling the President of the United States that he was in Cambodia. And in the "next sentence" he admits that he was also "along the Cambodian border," when he's now telling everyone he never came within 50 miles of Cambodia. He either lied to the President, or he's lying now. Or maybe he's just ... flip-flopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Given the facts, the records, and the testimony thus far, is there a fair jury out there that would believe Thurlow's account over Kerry's? 7761[/snapback] But the argument isn't Thurlow's account over Kerry's, it was Thurlow's account over Lambert's. And the facts of the case are...well, thin, at best. The testimony and official record of something that happened in Southeast Asia 35 years ago are not necessarily factual (any decent courtroom attorney knows that testimony is shaky at best. And any historian knows that "official reports" can very well bear only a tenuous relation to the facts.) Actually, if you take the partisan BS out of this whole issue, it's about par for the course: everyone has their own version of what happened, and thus no one can decide precisely what the hell actually happened. The "facts" of this issue, whatever they were, are long gone. At this point I'm more than willing to concede that everyone involved is full of stevestojan. But even aside from that...how can one possibly tell objectively whether it's Thurlow or Lambert who's lying? (And as for Kerry's war record: It's his war RECORD. That is, it's a matter of record. Anyone who wants to dismiss it as false had better damned well be prepared to explain how the records were falsified, and who perjured themselves in the process. I'm surprised Kerry's campaign hasn't taken that course with that issue yet..."Explain how your hearsay accusations disagree with the official record." Of course, that would probably just open them up to direct accusations of perjury, rather than the veiled ones they're so awkwardly parrying now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 I assume he is talking about Thurlow for two reasons. First, Thurlow was awarded the Bronze Star during that action the same as Kerry. Thurlow was supposedly thrown, knocked or fell overboard and was pulled out of the water by Lambert. According to the official report his boat was under fire but he turned it into the enemy and helped to rescue the memebers of the boat that hit the mine. What has a lot of Vets upset is that by attacking Kerry for his service and questioning the validity of his medals, these guys have put into question the validity of medals earned by all Vets, from all wars. The fool Thurlow actually brought into question his own Bronze Star by his statements. If they were true why didn't he say so 35 years ago? All Officers involved in an action were present and reviewed after-action reports and he could have said at the time that there was no hostile fire. He and his reason is that he thought nobady would see the reports. When asked why he thought he got the medal he said that it was because he pulled guys out of the water and saved the boat. Of course Kerry did the exact same thing, but that escapes the idiot. Regardless of what he says they both received the medal for the same thing. Either, they were under fire from the enemy which is supported by eyewitness accounts, and Naval records that have stood for 35 years. Or, they both pulled guys out of the water and saved the boats. Either way this guy cannot have his medal and deny Kerry his. The hipocracy is incredible. 7782[/snapback] Nice points, actually. And please don't anyone think for a minute that I support either side on this BS issue. Personally, I think all parties involved in this stupid argument should be given a spanking and sent to bed without their supper. No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Whatever the truth is, it still remains that four months in Viet Nam is not a lot of reason to vote someone President. Don't give me the "he knows how it is" stevestojan either. Ain't gonna buy it. A REAL leader would have done his tour to take care of his people. A lot of folks talking about that crap both here and elsewhere have never spent a day in uniform, let alone heard a shot fired in anger. 7762[/snapback] His Viet Nam service isn't the only reason to vote for Kerry, there are plenty of others on a whole host of issues. His website lays out his positions comprehensively and includes links to his speeches and proposals. I think your mind is probably made up so there is no reason for you to bother wading through all that information. As much as I dislike Bush's positions on a variety of issues, I am still not sure who I am going to vote for because there is just too much time between now and the election for me to decide. One thing I did recently learn that I didn't know before was the role Kerry played in taking down BCCI, the favorite bank of terrorists including bin Laden. Check it out: How John Kerry Busted the Terrorists' Favorite Bank The ranking Republican on Kerry's committee (Sen. Hank Brown) said of Kerry's role in busting BCCI: "John Kerry was willing to spearhead this difficult investigation, because many important members of his own party were involved in this scandal, it was a distasteful subject for other committee and subcommittee chairmen to investigate. They did not. John Kerry did." By the way, one GW Bush engineered a $25 Million dollar loan from a BCCI joint venture to Harken Energy. I'm sensing a theme emerging here. An ugly job, no one wants to do it, some stay on the sidelines but not Kerry, he shoulders his share of the load. Some report for duty, some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 I've waded through it. We just might not have the same ideas about comprehensive. I've quit counting speeches that contradict each other. Just about everyone here knows my focus, that's what I'm basing my presidential thoughts on. To me, without the right moves made towards defense, none of the rest of the stuff matters. It goes way past blowing things up. Look at the effects four guys with a boxcutter can have on the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Look at the effects four guys with a boxcutter can have on the economy. 7820[/snapback] This is why the economy has gone to stevestojan while Bush was president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 This is why the economy has gone to stevestojan while Bush was president? 7856[/snapback] Who would ever imagine the economy would be as STRONG as it is now relative to what happened on Sept. 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Who would ever imagine the economy would be as STRONG as it is now relative to what happened on Sept. 11. 7861[/snapback] Why do I picture Marty Feldman here? It could be worse! It could be even stevestojanttier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBorn1960 Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 He's on tape telling the President of the United States that he was in Cambodia. And in the "next sentence" he admits that he was also "along the Cambodian border," when he's now telling everyone he never came within 50 miles of Cambodia. He either lied to the President, or he's lying now. Or maybe he's just ... flip-flopped. 7788[/snapback] Ok I recognize a reading comprehension disability when I see it so I'll go slowly... Read the transcripts and you will see... O'NEILL: Alan, yes, they are, Alan. It's two different places, Alan. One place is along the Mekong River, right in the heart of the delta. The second place is on the west coast of Cambodia at a place called Ha Tien, where the boundary is right along that border. Where Kerry was in Christmas of 1968 was on this river, the Mekong River. We got about 40 or 50 miles from the border. That's as close as we ran. Later, Kerry went, and I went, to a place called Bernique's Creek — that was our nickname for it — at Ha Tien. That was a canal system that ran close to the border, but that wasn't at Christmas for Kerry. That was later for him. So it's two separate places, Alan, and the story is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Why do I picture Marty Feldman here? It could be worse! It could be even stevestojanttier! 7899[/snapback] My business is thriving. Companies are spending more and more money on technology which in turn requires more programming from companies like mine which in turn means I'm close to hiring two people in the next couple of months. What do you do for a living that the economy is killing you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 My business is thriving. Companies are spending more and more money on technology which in turn requires more programming from companies like mine which in turn means I'm close to hiring two people in the next couple of months. What do you do for a living that the economy is killing you? 7965[/snapback] Apparently he doesn't understand the economy is a cyclical beast that ebbs and flows according to a variety of market pressures. Being the simp he is, it's very easy to blame one person for everything that goes wrong (because currently that person belongs to the other horrible party) or credit for everything that goes right (only when that person belongs to his horrible party). And people wonder why the government has seized control of virtually everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Ok I recognize a reading comprehension disability when I see it so I'll go slowly... Read the transcripts and you will see... O'NEILL: Alan, yes, they are, Alan. It's two different places, Alan. One place is along the Mekong River, right in the heart of the delta. The second place is on the west coast of Cambodia at a place called Ha Tien, where the boundary is right along that border. Where Kerry was in Christmas of 1968 was on this river, the Mekong River. We got about 40 or 50 miles from the border. That's as close as we ran. Later, Kerry went, and I went, to a place called Bernique's Creek — that was our nickname for it — at Ha Tien. That was a canal system that ran close to the border, but that wasn't at Christmas for Kerry. That was later for him. So it's two separate places, Alan, and the story is correct. 7956[/snapback] You should have gone more slowly. Let me help. O'Neill today says he was never in Cambodia. This directly contradicts what he said to Nixon. On This Week last Sunday, O'Neill claimed that there is no watery border between Vietnam and Cambodia and so Kerry could not have crossed into Cambodia or been anywhere near it in a Swift Boat. He now says that there is such a border: "a place called Ha Tien, where the boundary is right along that border." Right here you can see a map showing the location of Bernique's Creek in Ha Tien. Scroll down a little further and you see a picture with the following description: Here a Swift Boat is seen departing Ha Tien in the late afternoon hours up the Giang Thanh for patrol. Cambodia will be on the left bank as she departs the lake area with South Vietnam on the southeast or right side. Hm it looks like there is plenty of water along the Cambodian border, doesn't it? O'Neill is now backtracking by saying that when he said "there isn't any watery border" he was only talking about the Mekong River...which runs north through South Vietnam into...uhmmm...Cambodia. Of course, although he claims his patrol only came within 50 miles of Cambodia on the Mekong, he has no idea what Kerry did on the same river, because he said, and I quote, "I was there two months after him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 My business is thriving. Companies are spending more and more money on technology which in turn requires more programming from companies like mine which in turn means I'm close to hiring two people in the next couple of months. What do you do for a living that the economy is killing you? 7965[/snapback] I'm a lawyer. I also care about more than just myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 I'm a lawyer. I also care about more than just myself. 8005[/snapback] Sorry...but taken out of context, that statement is an uproariously funny oxymoron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Sorry...but taken out of context, that statement is an uproariously funny oxymoron... 8009[/snapback] Yeah yeah. I should have said "but" instead of "also". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 This is why the economy has gone to stevestojan while Bush was president? 7856[/snapback] That's not what I said. Take a moment to consider the dollars and cents cost of being forced to react to the terror threat. It's quite expensive to have to consider security in everything you do, whether you are business or government, when you didn't have to do it before. What are the costs of security at the upcoming convention? What would they have been had there not been a 9/11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Apparently he doesn't understand the economy is a cyclical beast that ebbs and flows It'll be better when Kerry gets into office and starts with all the spending...though I'm not quite sure where he's going to get that money. 'Middle class' was it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 It'll be better when Kerry gets into office and starts with all the spending...though I'm not quite sure where he's going to get that money. 'Middle class' was it again? 8021[/snapback] Yeah. I love the idea that the government is going to make things better, contrary to all the evidence throughout recorded history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 I'm a lawyer. I also care about more than just myself. 8005[/snapback] I'm curious, sole practitioner, Government, ACLU, teacher, PI, Divorce...etc?? Oh, also, how long have you been practicing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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